All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Question:
What's the connection between freemasons and the illuminati?
What's the connection between freemasons and the illuminati?
Freemasons
- Thread starter john titor
- Start date
Sorry, couldn't help myself on that one.
Seriously, I figure most conspiracy theories are complete bullshit, and the idea of the Freemasons being some sort of all-powerful world controlling group is just silly. I mean, for one thing, if there was an all-powerful world controlling group, does anyone honestly think we'd know their name?
I came to that conclusion myself a while back. We proudly list our Lodges in every local phone book and we have a strong presence on the web. Every Grand Lodge in the country has its own web page now. The ones to be scared of don't have their doors open to anyone who wants to join. They are "tapped" by invitation only, usually when you have something they want. Skull & Bones are a perfect example.
Perfect example how, if you dig deep enough and have a fertile enough imagination, one can find patterns in everything.
The Illuminati, IIRC, were started in Bavaria by Johann Weishaupt in the late 18th century, long after Masonry was founded in 1717. I think it was in the 1770's or 80's. Anyways, Weishaupt based his organization on similar principles of knowledge, gnosticism and enlightenment. Angels & Demos was pretty close to the mark on what they were. But he did want that additional caveat - New World Order - a goal which he sought to attain through the spread of this organization. Incidentally, Weishaupt was a contemporary of George Washington who, by this time, was offered the position of Grand Master of Masons of the United States and declined, saying that there shall never be a Grand Lodge of the United States, because someone of the stature of a Grand Master of a Nation would be akin to a king, and rival the power of the newly formed presidency of the infant country. To this day, there is no US Grand Lodge, only individual Grand Lodges of States plus DC because of that statement. He was a wise man. The reason I bring this up, is that I had been told by my mentors in the Lodge that Weishaupt had actually contacted Washington, requesting permission to open Illuminati Lodges in America. The renowned Washington temper flared and basically told him and his ilk to piss off and die. Brother George saw the Illums as a blight and a misguided relic of the Old World (Europe) that he sought to separate this new nation from, particularly if they had a goal of destroying our nation's sovereignty and bringing us back under the elitist European umbrella that we just finished fighting to overcome. I am proud to call that man my brother.
Short answer: The only REAL connection between the two are the establishments of fundamental gnostic principles and the relatively same time-frame which the two were founded. The goals are completely different.
And yes, make no mistake, I am VERY anti New World Order. Hell, I don't even like it when the town I'm living in tells me what to do. That's why I live in a house that doesn't have a home owners' association. Tyranny by any other name...
If it was, I never would have made it through the front door! I suck at math. There are mathematical principles mentioned in the ritual, but it's a fraction of a percent (no pun intended) of the stuff I've seen. No worries there.
I'm curious to know what the masons think of all the outrageous assumptions and misconceptions people have. Do you try to refute them, or do you think it's funny etc?
Another mason chiming in. I laugh at those silly assumptions. They're really out there.
So what?
john titor
Captain
His reactions to other posters could best be described as psychotic. Clearly he was spreading fictions on behalf of the masons. Do you know anything about telluric energy and masonic obelisks?
So being a mason makes one psychotic?
And no, I know nothing of either. Stop reading conspiracy theory crap.
Thanks for being so open to discussion, 137th Gebrig. I have a question. Is it true that women aren't allowed to become Masons? (That's what I've heard, but I wanted to check my facts.) If that's the case, why?
Yes it's true. I'm not sure why however. Perhaps 137 can elaborate on the history a bit if he knows.
That's how I felt about my fraternity right before I joined. The old addage is true:
Outside, looking in, you can never properly understand life in a fraternal organization. Inside, looking out, you can never properly explain it.
Hello, Vulcan Princess, and most welcome.
To answer your question, yes...and no. Allow me to elaborate.
It is true that no woman can be made a Mason in a regular Lodge that holds its charter deriving back to the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE). Back then (1717), as I'm sure you are aware, this was a time when women did not hold the same social and political standing as men. Such organizations did not allow women for this reason. Today, it would be considered more of a tradition than anything else.
Here is a more modern take on the subject. What is the one consistent time when men act like idiots, fumble over their words and tend not to act like themselves? The answer is, when women are present. Seen it a million times at bars and social functions. It seems to be an immutable law of the universe. Must be the way our brains are wired, I don't know. In any case, the traditions of Masonry provide as a small refuge and a slower pace of life from the daily world, which is growing smaller and smaller every day, due largely to the mainstream media and especially the internet. Social tribalism is also on the rise where people of like minds and interests gather together to share their thoughts and ideas on common ground without being vilified for having a contrary opinion - this exists on all ends of the political/social spectrum. Masonry gives that to us. That's not to say that there are not Masonic functions and organizations where women aren't included - quite the contrary. Many appendant bodies enjoy a "co-ed" version, recognized by the Grand Lodges, where women are encouraged to join, usually wives, daughters, sisters and mothers of Masons. Such organizations include the Order of the Eastern Star, Daughters of the Nile, Order of Amaranth and the Social Order of the Beauceant.
Now there are those "irregular" and "clandestine" organizations that I mentioned in an earlier post. Their is such a thing as "Co-Masons" - all-women Masons who carry the same titles and wear the same regalia as we do. They do not carry a charter that derives from UGLE and are therefore not recognized by any "regular" Grand Lodge. I've seen a few of these women in my travels, listened to lectures and research papers by them and, I must say, some of them know more about the principles and precepts of Masonry that many of my own regular brethren do. Is what it is, I guess. They exist for the same goals we do, historical/esoteric research and personal enlightenment, and many of their Grand Lodges do not allow men in their ranks, but some of them do. And we're cool with that.
There's a great Wiki article on all this here for further detailed info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_Freemasonry
Women are also allowed to join the Rosicrucians, BTW.
Yup! Noticed the same thing myself when I joined my fraternity (Sigma Nu). Interestingly, most college fraternities (and the Boy Scouts, for that matter) were founded by Masons, containing similar, oftentimes identical ritual and symbolism. If you were a Webelo and passed through the "Arrow of Light" ceremony to become a Boy Scout, then you experienced a version of Masonic ritual.
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I was going to join the Masons a few years ago - got as far as touring a lodge, realized they wanted me to sign something saying that I would never act against the US government (which that part isn't a problem for me) when their lodge was named and dedicated after a Confederate general, and also, that they didn't allow black people. (One of my very best friends is a black deacon, and there's something wrong with any club that would have me as a member and not him.) So I politely called them on the racism and hypocrisy, and then split.
(Bear in mind that I'm in the deep South. I know that not all lodges are segregated, or would be named after Confederates.
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The Masons have time travel!!!
(Bear in mind that I'm in the deep South. I know that not all lodges are segregated, or would be named after Confederates.
)That's not what's going on there, no matter what 137th Gebirg says, and I can't believe john titor, of all people, missed this one:
The Masons have time travel!!!
Strange, usually freemasons tell they're not freemason while they're alive and they make everything they can to let everyone know they're freemason when they're dead (just visit the Père Lachaise cemetery)...
Anyway, the only purpose of freemasonry now is to connect people who can help each other to climb the social ladder.
Anyway, the only purpose of freemasonry now is to connect people who can help each other to climb the social ladder.
I was going to join the Masons a few years ago - got as far as touring a lodge, realized they wanted me to sign something saying that I would never act against the US government (which that part isn't a problem for me) when their lodge was named and dedicated after a Confederate general, and also, that they didn't allow black people. (One of my very best friends is a black deacon, and there's something wrong with any club that would have me as a member and not him.) So I politely called them on the racism and hypocrisy, and then split.
(Bear in mind that I'm in the deep South. I know that not all lodges are segregated, or would be named after Confederates.
Yes, that is an unfortunate chapter in our history, admittedly, and it actually moves into another similar topic as with the question about female Masons.
Prince Hall.
Back in the days not long after the Revolutionary War, a free black man by the name of Prince Hall sought to join a Masonic Lodge in Massachusetts. He was refused because of the color of his skin. I'm a little sketchy on the intervening time, but to make a long story short, he managed to get a hold of Masonic ritual and a charter from the Grand Lodge of England, or one of its "children", and proceeded to build Prince Hall Lodges. Every state in the union has one, and it is predominantly an American creation. I don't believe there are PH Lodges in any other countries that I am aware of, and it has flourished in the American military. In fact, it is oftentimes more common to find a PH Lodge at a military base in Europe than a regular American Lodge. There are actually white soldiers who have asked to join these Lodges run by their comrades-in-arms who happen to be black. This occasionally provides for some peculiar and awkward moments when they come home to join a regular Lodge and they have to do the research on whether or not that particular Prince Hall Grand Lodge is recognized.
So, many regular Grand Lodges do recognize all PH GL's. Some only recognize the one in their own state. Some, not at all. It is a shame, as they do take the same obligations that the rest of us do, and yet they cannot always be called "brother" due to the bureaucracies inherent in every Grand Lodge's administration. But this is changing...sloooooooowly.
Here's the irony. Many PH GL's have balked at co-recognition in the same way that many regular Grand Lodges have. They fear that, to do so, they would lose many of their members to us and they would lose their identity in the process. I have spoken with PH Masons in my own town and they are established not only for personal enlightenment and improvement, but they are also pillars of their communities, and are needed to keep their younger neighborhood kids out of trouble and provide an environment of growth that would keep them away from gangs and other problems. This is especially true in the urban areas. They felt if they lost their people to co-recognition, or even merging, they would lose their war against the negative influences in their respective neighborhoods and that would be it for them. Makes a helluva lot of sense.
Suffice it to say that men of any race, creed or color are welcome in most Masonic Lodges, at least in the ones I've visited, so long as they profess a belief in a Supreme Being.
Why doesn't anyone TELL me these things at the meetings?!?!
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The first statement used to be true, at least in America. American Masons generally make their affiliation openly known through rings, shirts, belt buckles, hats, etc.
The first statement is true in Europe and other locations around the world where Masonry has come under scrutiny and outright persecution from the governments of nations in which they reside.
The second statement, yeah, if you have a Masonic symbol on the car and you get pulled over by a cop who happens to be a Mason, at the very least, he won't get paranoid about being shot by you and you are more likely to get off with a warning for being stupid - but not always. If I am in an interview with someone who happens to be a Mason (if I see his ring or whatever), I automatically have an instant bond with him, as I know he took the same obligations as I did and would help a brother in need. I would be more inclined to extend a level of trust to him than someone I flat out didn't know. Those things do happen, but at the end of the day, that's not what we are about.
Getting back to the first statement as it relates to Europe: Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and a number of other dictators outright banned Masonry and shot them on sight during WWII. They didn't even get a chance to go to the concentration camps, as these "leaders" felt they were too subversive to exist within their borders. The way I see it, if my brethren were so feared by these monsters, whether justified or not, I feel that I am in very good company and don't regret such an affiliation for a second.
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The real question needs to be asked: how many people are Stone Cutters?
^^^ Heh... I actually made my own replica prop of the "Sacred Parchment" years ago. I'll have to take a pic and post it.
Another Mason here!
As 137th Gebrig commented, it is nice to meet with like minded individuals who hold similar ideas to mine. That they have pledged themselves to live according to certain rules and principles.
I do a fair bit of traveling, and one of the frist things I do in a new city is try to get in touch with a local Lodge. While I may not make any friends there, it is always nice to meet friendly people in a new area.
As 137th Gebrig commented, it is nice to meet with like minded individuals who hold similar ideas to mine. That they have pledged themselves to live according to certain rules and principles.
I do a fair bit of traveling, and one of the frist things I do in a new city is try to get in touch with a local Lodge. While I may not make any friends there, it is always nice to meet friendly people in a new area.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Addresses please.
