Why do women use crying to get their way?

[Crusher Disciple]

Please, I've had men try to cry, whine, cajole, act stupid and manipulate me. It definately works both ways.

They do it because they aren't emotionally mature enough to handle acting like an adult. Someone (usually starting with their parents) let them get away with emotional manipulation early on and no body slapped them (figuratively speaking) and told them to grow up and act like an adult when conflict comes up in a relationship.

My strategy? I calmly tell him that he's X years old and it's time to act like an adult, listen to me, and have an adult conversation. If he doesn't want to do that, then I get in the car and drive off.

Now, someone who's genuinely upset gets a big hug and an ear to listen to. But I've been around the block long enough to know when I'm being bullshitted.

 

[nevermore]

I used to cry in the midst of major shouting matches with my parents. Couldn't help it, I would just be so angry and frustrated and ready to commit hari-kari that I would just start crying, while continuing to shout. I think the last time that happened I was about 10. At 10, and with your parents it's ok. With peers, it's a whole 'nother ballgame.

If any adult, man or woman, started (genuinely or otherwise) crying during an argument, I think I would be filled with such a combination of pity, horror, loathing and embarrassment for them, I doubt I would be able to look at them. They would win the argument by default because I would have to leave the room, but they would also lose a great deal of respect and I would probably have a hard time ever taking them seriously again.

I also refuse to buy this ridiculous "women can't control their emotions" hypothesis we're seeing in this thread. Women aren't taught to control their emotions, doesn't mean they can't learn or shouldn't learn. Crying during an argument, heated or otherwise, is not an effective way to be seen as a competent adult.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I used to cry in the midst of major shouting matches with my parents. Couldn't help it, I would just be so angry and frustrated and ready to commit hari-kari that I would just start crying, while continuing to shout. I think the last time that happened I was about 10. At 10, and with your parents it's ok. With peers, it's a whole 'nother ballgame.

If any adult, man or woman, started (genuinely or otherwise) crying during an argument, I think I would be filled with such a combination of pity, horror, loathing and embarrassment for them, I doubt I would be able to look at them. They would win the argument by default because I would have to leave the room, but they would also lose a great deal of respect and I would probably have a hard time ever taking them seriously again.

I also refuse to buy this ridiculous "women can't control their emotions" hypothesis we're seeing in this thread. Women aren't taught to control their emotions, doesn't mean they can't learn or shouldn't learn. Crying during an argument, heated or otherwise, is not an effective way to be seen as a competent adult.

I would respectfully suggest a competent adult does not hide or deny genuine emotion any more than they deliberately overplay or draw undue attention to it. If you cry, you cry. Don't make a deal of it and don't be ashamed of it either. I get tearful (in a low-key way) quite often, for many reasons and with many different emotions motivating it- sadness, joy, anger, sympathy for others, being moved by beauty or, indeed, confrontation. If you "loath" your peers for crying, and find their emotion so horrirfying you can never take them seriously again, well, I honestly don'ty mean rudeness, but I'm surprised you are able to interact with others at all. It seems to me we're going backwards. Why did we try so hard to overcome this "men don't cry" nonsense only for it not only to be put firmly back in place but for "women don't cry" to be added too?

I don't see why "competent adult" and "demonstrates emotion" are incompatable. This isn't Vulcan.

We're talking about "crying to get your own way" not "crying, fullstop".

 

[nevermore]

I used to cry in the midst of major shouting matches with my parents. Couldn't help it, I would just be so angry and frustrated and ready to commit hari-kari that I would just start crying, while continuing to shout. I think the last time that happened I was about 10. At 10, and with your parents it's ok. With peers, it's a whole 'nother ballgame.

If any adult, man or woman, started (genuinely or otherwise) crying during an argument, I think I would be filled with such a combination of pity, horror, loathing and embarrassment for them, I doubt I would be able to look at them. They would win the argument by default because I would have to leave the room, but they would also lose a great deal of respect and I would probably have a hard time ever taking them seriously again.

I also refuse to buy this ridiculous "women can't control their emotions" hypothesis we're seeing in this thread. Women aren't taught to control their emotions, doesn't mean they can't learn or shouldn't learn. Crying during an argument, heated or otherwise, is not an effective way to be seen as a competent adult.

I would respectfully suggest a competent adult does not hide or deny genuine emotion any more than they deliberately overplay or draw undue attention to it. If you cry, you cry. Don't make a deal of it and don't be ashamed of it either. I get tearful (in a low-key way) quite often, for many reasons and with many different emotions motivating it- sadness, joy, anger, sympathy for others, being moved by beauty or, indeed, confrontation. If you "loath" your peers for crying, and find their emotion so horrirfying you can never take them seriously again, well, I honestly don'ty mean rudeness, but I'm surprised you are able to interact with others at all. It seems to me we're going backwards. Why did we try so hard to overcome this "men don't cry" nonsense only for it not only to be put firmly back in place but for "women don't cry" to be added too?

I don't see why "competent adult" and "demonstrates emotion" are incompatable. This isn't Vulcan.

We're talking about "crying to get your own way" not "crying, fullstop".

No, as stated clearly in my post, I'm talking about crying during an argument regardless of why. An argument is not an appropriate time to cry. It's fine if one wants to blubber through it, they're free to do so, but its not going to incline me (personally) to listen to his or her point because its a sign that they are being irrational. I consider being able to moderate ones' emotions to suit the circumstances to be a basic aspect of maturity. What if your boss shits on your work? Is it appropriate to cry? And do you expect to be taken seriously as a competent professional if you stand around blubbering over everything that gets to you? Or do you control your emotions and behave calmly and rationally because that's appropriate?

And I interact with people quite well, thank you. Of course, I've never actually had anyone burst into tears around me, except at a funeral, which would be an example of an appropriate time to cry. Another would be when watching Old Yeller.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I used to cry in the midst of major shouting matches with my parents. Couldn't help it, I would just be so angry and frustrated and ready to commit hari-kari that I would just start crying, while continuing to shout. I think the last time that happened I was about 10. At 10, and with your parents it's ok. With peers, it's a whole 'nother ballgame.

If any adult, man or woman, started (genuinely or otherwise) crying during an argument, I think I would be filled with such a combination of pity, horror, loathing and embarrassment for them, I doubt I would be able to look at them. They would win the argument by default because I would have to leave the room, but they would also lose a great deal of respect and I would probably have a hard time ever taking them seriously again.

I also refuse to buy this ridiculous "women can't control their emotions" hypothesis we're seeing in this thread. Women aren't taught to control their emotions, doesn't mean they can't learn or shouldn't learn. Crying during an argument, heated or otherwise, is not an effective way to be seen as a competent adult.

I would respectfully suggest a competent adult does not hide or deny genuine emotion any more than they deliberately overplay or draw undue attention to it. If you cry, you cry. Don't make a deal of it and don't be ashamed of it either. I get tearful (in a low-key way) quite often, for many reasons and with many different emotions motivating it- sadness, joy, anger, sympathy for others, being moved by beauty or, indeed, confrontation. If you "loath" your peers for crying, and find their emotion so horrirfying you can never take them seriously again, well, I honestly don'ty mean rudeness, but I'm surprised you are able to interact with others at all. It seems to me we're going backwards. Why did we try so hard to overcome this "men don't cry" nonsense only for it not only to be put firmly back in place but for "women don't cry" to be added too?

I don't see why "competent adult" and "demonstrates emotion" are incompatable. This isn't Vulcan.

We're talking about "crying to get your own way" not "crying, fullstop".

No, as stated clearly in my post, I'm talking about crying during an argument regardless of why. An argument is not an appropriate time to cry. I consider being able to moderate ones' emotions to suit the circumstances to be a basic aspect of maturity. It's fine if one wants to blubber through it, they're free to do so, but its not going to incline me (personally) to listen to his or her point because its a sign that they are being irrational.

And I interact with people quite well, thank you. Of course, I've never actually had anyone burst into tears around me, except at a funeral, which would be an example of an appropriate time to cry. Another would be when watching Old Yeller.

Ah, but who are you to dictate universally-applied views on when crying is "appropriate"?- particularly if you have no experience of those who are inclined to cry often. I personally have no problem with someone I'm arguing with crying- as long as they aren't doing it for manipulative purposes.

If no-one's ever burst into tears around you, except once at a funeral, you are likely in a real minority. If you can't handle tears without loathing people, then, yes, I must conclude there are a great, great many situations in which you'd have trouble interacting with people. That isn't intended as an accusation, merely my experience of people. You think people are instantly irrational because they display genuine emotion, and this stirs up loathing, of all things....

 

[nevermore]

I would respectfully suggest a competent adult does not hide or deny genuine emotion any more than they deliberately overplay or draw undue attention to it. If you cry, you cry. Don't make a deal of it and don't be ashamed of it either. I get tearful (in a low-key way) quite often, for many reasons and with many different emotions motivating it- sadness, joy, anger, sympathy for others, being moved by beauty or, indeed, confrontation. If you "loath" your peers for crying, and find their emotion so horrirfying you can never take them seriously again, well, I honestly don'ty mean rudeness, but I'm surprised you are able to interact with others at all. It seems to me we're going backwards. Why did we try so hard to overcome this "men don't cry" nonsense only for it not only to be put firmly back in place but for "women don't cry" to be added too?

I don't see why "competent adult" and "demonstrates emotion" are incompatable. This isn't Vulcan.

We're talking about "crying to get your own way" not "crying, fullstop".

No, as stated clearly in my post, I'm talking about crying during an argument regardless of why. An argument is not an appropriate time to cry. I consider being able to moderate ones' emotions to suit the circumstances to be a basic aspect of maturity. It's fine if one wants to blubber through it, they're free to do so, but its not going to incline me (personally) to listen to his or her point because its a sign that they are being irrational.

And I interact with people quite well, thank you. Of course, I've never actually had anyone burst into tears around me, except at a funeral, which would be an example of an appropriate time to cry. Another would be when watching Old Yeller.

Ah, but who are you to dictate universally-applied views on when crying is "appropriate"?- particularly if you have no experience of those who are inclined to cry often. I personally have no problem with someone I'm arguing with crying- as long as they aren't doing it for manipulative purposes.

I never claimed I was. That's why I put in "(personally)". I will dictate for myself whether I will continue to deal with people who are so emotional they can't control themselves.

If no-one's ever burst into tears around you, except once at a funeral, you are likely in a real minority. If you can't handle tears without loathing people, then, yes, I must conclude there are a great, great many situations in which you'd have trouble interacting with people.

Ok, sweetie you don't read very closely, do you? Again, I was talking about people who cry in what I consider to be inappropriate situations like an argument. Also, you know one of the cool things about being an adult? I get to choose my own friends, and I do so entirely based on whether they are people I want to be around. Overly emotional people who burst into tears a lot are not generally people I want to be around. I'm just not a caring nurturer. I'm well into my 30's and its worked out pretty well so far. I think you would be shocked at the number of people who fit my criteria and the number of people who share it.

That isn't intended as an accusation, merely my experience of people. You think people are instantly irrational because they display genuine emotion, and this stirs up loathing, of all things....

No, I think people invalidate their argument by acting irrationally, which includes losing control of themselves and bursting into tears. And yes, it does generate an intense aversion to continuing the conversation.

 

[sidious618]

It's tough to imagine an argument where crying is at all a good thing if a point is trying to be made. Imagine arguing with someone over health care and one person starts to cry.

Now if you're arguing with your spouse because they had an affair then I could see why crying would be okay. But if you're arguing at work over job performance breaking down in tears is not going to help your case. More than anything else it's because when someone is crying hard you can't understand a word they're saying and so, really, what's the point of continuing?

I guess it also depends on what level of crying we're talking about. If someone gets teary eyed during an emotional argument then that's fine with me. But if you start blubbering you've lost the argument whether you care to admit it or not.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I guess I should explain something. When I was a young child, I was very, very careful and controlled with my emotions, more so than most children by a long shot. I developed very quickly, and was able to control my emotional output by a very, very young age. I was incredibly manipulative- not with malice, I would stress, but with a simple young child's instinct to try and get what I wanted. I could wrap adults around my finger, and did so. Again, I was never unpleasant or malicious, simply self-serving as a young child is. However, I grew up, and became ashamed of my conduct. As a part of the big personality change that occurred when I was 11, I became incredibly open with my feelings. No more manipulation, no more trickery, only honest, open, trusting (and trustworthy) interaction. I am now very, very open and truthful. If I feel something, I present it, and I prefer when others do the same. To me, most control of emotional output is equated with manipulation, and with a childish I-want viewpoint. Preventing emotion from being openly demonstrated is only, in my personal opinion, a good idea if the emotion will cause harm, e.g. great anger must be controlled for the sake of preventing harmful conflict.

My advice would be this: If you want to cry, cry. Don't make a big deal of it, don't wave it in someone's face or act as though it means anything. Don't hide it, either, don't act ashamed, don't pretend you're not feeling tearful when you are. Just do it. Trying not to cry when you are inclined to is no different than crying when you're not inclined to just for attention or to get your way. It's manipulative.

I do object to all these statements that I, as a tearful individual, am somehow less mature or "adult" than others who (in my view childishly) hide what they feel in order to manipulate social interaction. My friends and acquaintances know they can be themselves around me. No hiding or lying is necessary. I've always found that a far more mature and productive way of building relationships.

PS: By the way, Flaminglibel, I don't answer to "Sweetie". I'm assuming this patronizing name was applied because you think those who cry "inappropriately" are babyish. As I have just mentioned, to me your view is the childish one. For the last time, tearful does not equal immature.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I guess it also depends on what level of crying we're talking about. If someone gets teary eyed during an emotional argument then that's fine with me.

Indeed. I personally tend towards teary-eyed, a few tears running down my face, sniffles, rather than full-on tears (as I imagine is also the case with most other people). However, I've had a considerable number of experiences with those who have major tear-episodes, including in the midst of confrontations. People are complex. Who knows what combination of factors contributed to their extreme emotion then? It's best they let it out and deal with it.

But if you start blubbering you've lost the argument whether you care to admit it or not.

I have argued with people who "blubbered". They didn't necessarilly "lose" those arguments. Your final comment doesn't apply in my experience.

Arguments allow us to express ourselves. That's their whole point. We express ourselves and learn about others. Winning or losing matters little.

 

[Kail]

Because it works.

 

[Danoz]

Whether by cultural or chemistry women are more outwardly emotional (admitted generalization, not always the case). Though, I dare say, if it ever came to "crying" in a relationship fight that would be enough for me to backtrack and try to calm things down.

So, in my case, it works...

 

[RJDiogenes]

Oh, this thread's going to go WELL!

Subscribed so as not to miss the comedy value over the next few pages.

You know, ever since you stopped moderating Miscellaneous, I picture you like the guy in Thunderdome who just couldn't leave well enough alone and let two men enter and leave in peace.

He has definitely been far too happy since he left.

 

[jkladis]

Men are fully capable of crying for the exact same reasons and with the same intentions as women. The difference through most of life is that we just tend to have slightly thicker shielding to contain it. Anyone who's spent enough time in a nursing home to see that shielding decay knows what I'm talking about. We'll bawl our fucking eyes out because someone changed the channel.

Jim, 33, about halfway there.

 

[Tim]

An argument is not an appropriate time to cry. It's fine if one wants to blubber through it, they're free to do so, but its not going to incline me (personally) to listen to his or her point because its a sign that they are being irrational. I consider being able to moderate ones' emotions to suit the circumstances to be a basic aspect of maturity.

Fair enough, but I consider a heated argument to be intrinsically irrational, so I personally don't expect the presence or lack of a certain behavior to be indicative of anything.

What if your boss shits on your work? Is it appropriate to cry? And do you expect to be taken seriously as a competent professional if you stand around blubbering over everything that gets to you? Or do you control your emotions and behave calmly and rationally because that's appropriate?

This, I think, is a different example. Being unable to withstand criticism is not the same as an argument and is indeed a sign of immaturity.

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

Honestly! What does whaling like a 3 year old get women? There is nothing worse than trying to have a conversation (albeit a little heated) when she starts blubbering like a toddler. Is it a defense mechanism? Is it their method of getting their way? I can have a heated conversation without devolving into a 3 year old. It's maddening! The only effect it has on me is I want to get away by any means necessary. Someone enlighten me, please!

Women are far more emotional than men are. We don't cry because we resort to being 3 year olds, we just have FEELINGS. Men do as well but it's easier for them to not show their emotions whereas it's a natural thing for women to show them.

It also depends on the woman. I've gotten in shit at work for stupid reasons but I didn't cry, I just told my boss off. He was practically my best friend after that.

Basically, you either get the chicks who cry because they are sensitive or the chicks who don't give a shit and have more balls than the guy they are arguing with.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Honestly! What does whaling like a 3 year old get women? There is nothing worse than trying to have a conversation (albeit a little heated) when she starts blubbering like a toddler. Is it a defense mechanism? Is it their method of getting their way? I can have a heated conversation without devolving into a 3 year old. It's maddening! The only effect it has on me is I want to get away by any means necessary. Someone enlighten me, please!

Women are far more emotional than men are. We don't cry because we resort to being 3 year olds, we just have FEELINGS. Men do as well but it's easier for them to not show their emotions whereas it's a natural thing for women to show them.

It also depends on the woman. I've gotten in shit at work for stupid reasons but I didn't cry, I just told my boss off. He was practically my best friend after that.

Basically, you either get the chicks who cry because they are sensitive or the chicks who don't give a shit and have more balls than the guy they are arguing with.

No, women are not "more emotional" than men. It is equally natural for us to show our feelings when we aren't raised in conservative and reactionary communities who consider it unseemly. And what do you mean by "have more balls"? Is that a slur to those men who don't meet your standards of masculinity and dare to usurp the women by displaying equal emotion? It seem to me you're suggesting that women can be sensitive or not- it's up to them- but men have to choose "not" or they're less of a man. With respect, that's a very outdated viewpoint.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Just walk away. Break up with the dumb shit & be done with them. PERMANENTLY. Let the overly sensitive sobbing clod deal with life on their own.

Has anyone ever told you that you're a very angry person? I mean, other than me? Go punch through a wall or something before you post in here again, because it's getting tiresome.

 

[T J]

Just walk away. Break up with the dumb shit & be done with them. PERMANENTLY. Let the overly sensitive sobbing clod deal with life on their own.

Has anyone ever told you that you're a very angry person? I mean, other than me? Go punch through a wall or something before you post in here again, because it's getting tiresome.

Hellsgate, it does sound like you have been burned... a lot... and hard... Take it down a few notches... Learn to forgive.

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

Honestly! What does whaling like a 3 year old get women? There is nothing worse than trying to have a conversation (albeit a little heated) when she starts blubbering like a toddler. Is it a defense mechanism? Is it their method of getting their way? I can have a heated conversation without devolving into a 3 year old. It's maddening! The only effect it has on me is I want to get away by any means necessary. Someone enlighten me, please!

Women are far more emotional than men are. We don't cry because we resort to being 3 year olds, we just have FEELINGS. Men do as well but it's easier for them to not show their emotions whereas it's a natural thing for women to show them.

It also depends on the woman. I've gotten in shit at work for stupid reasons but I didn't cry, I just told my boss off. He was practically my best friend after that.

Basically, you either get the chicks who cry because they are sensitive or the chicks who don't give a shit and have more balls than the guy they are arguing with.

No, women are not "more emotional" than men. It is equally natural for us to show our feelings when we aren't raised in conservative and reactionary communities who consider it unseemly. And what do you mean by "have more balls"? Is that a slur to those men who don't meet your standards of masculinity and dare to usurp the women by displaying equal emotion? It seem to me you're suggesting that women can be sensitive or not- it's up to them- but men have to choose "not" or they're less of a man. With respect, that's a very outdated viewpoint.

LMAO. Way to put words in my mouth.

Yes, woman ARE more emotional than men are. I never said that men can't be emotional but they work a lot differently than women do. It's just the way things are. It's a lot easier for us to cry than it is for men.

Second, awesome fail in assuming 'more balls' was a slur to men. It's just a saying, relax, and enough with this bullshit that men have to meet any standards women have. I use the term 'more balls' in general. They could be arguing with a guy or girl, it doesn't matter, I still use the 'more balls' remark in association with people who think they are better than the other person, which is why I used my boss as an example. He just loves to shit on people for no reason and even made one of the ladies cry because he gave her shit for calling in sick for the first time in 6 years. He bullies people and thought he could get away with bullying me and he didn't. IT WAS A SIMPLE EXAMPLE, not a general term for men only. I only said 'guy she is arguing with' in this case because the OP was using himself in an argument with a woman so I automatically went with the 'guy arguing with a girl' analogy that the thread started with.

Stop with this lame men vs women crap, honestly. That isn't what this is about. It's about emotions. Neither men nor women are better than the other. Both have pros and cons. Some guys show more emotion than other guys and some women show less emotion than other women but women generally tend to be a little more sensitive.

Seriously, the fact that a simple saying like 'more balls' touched a nerve with you yet you don't seem to mind a thread title that depicts women as a bunch of 3 year old crybabies who whine to get their way and are immature is astounding.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Women are far more emotional than men are. We don't cry because we resort to being 3 year olds, we just have FEELINGS. Men do as well but it's easier for them to not show their emotions whereas it's a natural thing for women to show them.

It also depends on the woman. I've gotten in shit at work for stupid reasons but I didn't cry, I just told my boss off. He was practically my best friend after that.

Basically, you either get the chicks who cry because they are sensitive or the chicks who don't give a shit and have more balls than the guy they are arguing with.

No, women are not "more emotional" than men. It is equally natural for us to show our feelings when we aren't raised in conservative and reactionary communities who consider it unseemly. And what do you mean by "have more balls"? Is that a slur to those men who don't meet your standards of masculinity and dare to usurp the women by displaying equal emotion? It seem to me you're suggesting that women can be sensitive or not- it's up to them- but men have to choose "not" or they're less of a man. With respect, that's a very outdated viewpoint.

LMAO. Way to put words in my mouth.

Yes, woman ARE more emotional than men are. I never said that men can't be emotional but they work a lot differently than women do. It's just the way things are. It's a lot easier for us to cry than it is for men.

Second, awesome fail in assuming 'more balls' was a slur to men. It's just a saying, relax, and enough with this bullshit that men have to meet any standards women have. I use the term 'more balls' in general. They could be arguing with a guy or girl, it doesn't matter, I still use the 'more balls' remark in association with people who think they are better than the other person, which is why I used my boss as an example. He just loves to shit on people for no reason and even made one of the ladies cry because he gave her shit for calling in sick for the first time in 6 years. He bullies people and thought he could get away with bullying me and he didn't. IT WAS A SIMPLE EXAMPLE, not a general term for men only. I only said 'guy she is arguing with' in this case because the OP was using himself in an argument with a woman so I automatically went with the 'guy arguing with a girl' analogy that the thread started with.

Stop with this lame men vs women crap, honestly. That isn't what this is about. It's about emotions. Neither men nor women are better than the other. Both have pros and cons. Some guys show more emotion than other guys and some women show less emotion than other women but women generally tend to be a little more sensitive.

Seriously, the fact that a simple saying like 'more balls' touched a nerve with you yet you don't seem to mind a thread title that depicts women as a bunch of 3 year old crybabies who whine to get their way and are immature is astounding.

Read. My. Other. Contributions. To. The. Thread. Then read your last comment and pay particular attention to the word "immature".

As for the rest, what are you talking about? What men VS women thing? You clearly have not understood- or, I imagine, read- anything I've posted save that last comment.

You say: "I never said that men can't be emotional but they work a lot differently than women do. It's just the way things are." Nonsense. Men and women are NOT different. YOU are the one pushing a men Vs women angle if anyone is.

And your comment "chicks who don't give a shit and have more balls than the guy they are arguing with" wasn't a slur? "Balls" is a slang term for male reproductive organs, as I'm sure you know.