Why do women use crying to get their way?

[JonathonWally]

I personally, and I acknowledge you might see it very differently, find hiding true, genuine emotions to be manipulative

I take issue with this. It's none of your business to know what emotions I'm feeling. I'm not "manipulating" you by doing so. Depriving you of intimate knowledge of myself? Sure, but that's my call. I'm not twisting or manipulating you or anyone else.

I find it ridiculous that just because you were manipulative and had under-handed motives for hiding your emotion (which you keep using to frame your statement) that you now project that ulterior motive unto others.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I personally, and I acknowledge you might see it very differently, find hiding true, genuine emotions to be manipulative

I take issue with this. It's none of your business to know what emotions I'm feeling. I'm not "manipulating" you by doing so. Depriving you of intimate knowledge of myself? Sure, but that's my call. I'm not twisting or manipulating you or anyone else.

I find it ridiculous that just because you were manipulative and had under-handed motives for hiding your emotion (which you keep using to frame your statement) that you now project that ulterior motive unto others.

Well, I think that feeling something and being inclined to show it (e.g. be moved to tears) only to go out of your way to pretend you're not so inclined or so moved is indeed manipulative. That person is deliberately presenting to others a falsity in order to influence the social interaction so it corresponds more to how they want it to go.

My "underhanded motives" were the young child's instinct for selfish, the-world-revolves-around-me thinking, manipulating adults. As I became older, I became ashamed and, well, grew up. The instinct to hide emotion and remain "opaque" never leaves us, however (we are all still selfish to some degree, that can't be helped). However, I personally cannot afford to let myself fall back into my childish ways of control, stoicism and refusal to reveal my true feelings.

I'm certainly not saying "people who aren't openly emotional are hostile or out to get me", I'm simply saying that, whether it is with malice or not (and 95% of the time, it's "not"), concealing emotion is manipulative. Given the way I am and how I work, I personally cannot afford to be manipulative.

When I'm actually with people in the flesh, I can usually pick up their genuine emotions anyway. I've always been able to "get" other people's emotions when interacting face-to-face with them. When they insist on presenting falsehood to me while broadcasting the truth below it, I find it a bit rude, to be honest. So many people try to hide it and fail. I had many so-called friends as a child who were convinced they were easily manipulating me. They weren't. I knew exactly what they were doing, what they were truly feeling in relation to me. But, being the shy, friendly, quiet, desperate-to-make-friends boy I was, I simply kept quiet. Let them think I was naive and unaware of the truth. So, both I and they were being manipulative. Relationships cannot be built on such a foundation if they are to be productive.

Edit: Basically, take a young child (3 years or so) who understands and picks up the emotions of those around him, but knows also how to control and hide his own feelings from them. Not good. I was never malicious- I was always compassionate and kind- but I was very, very manipulative. Fortunately, because I was never malicious no lasting harm was ever done. However, I cannot afford to be that manipulative again. Since my "awakening" at age 11, and the changes that took place which made me continuously "open" to the world rather than sheltered or closed off, I'm (happily) not sure I ever could be, but I'm still not comfortable with the degree of (attempted) concealment other people tend to demonstrate. I understand most people were far less aware of other's emotions and far more open with their own as children. Their path to maturity is likely very different from mine, but these personal prejudices are hard to overcome.

 

[HighteeHeller]

I personally, and I acknowledge you might see it very differently, find hiding true, genuine emotions to be manipulative

I take issue with this. It's none of your business to know what emotions I'm feeling. I'm not "manipulating" you by doing so. Depriving you of intimate knowledge of myself? Sure, but that's my call. I'm not twisting or manipulating you or anyone else.

I find it ridiculous that just because you were manipulative and had under-handed motives for hiding your emotion (which you keep using to frame your statement) that you now project that ulterior motive unto others.

Well, i do agree that hiding emotions is manipulative, especially when they are expressed as opposite to what you actually feel. If someone pisses you off and you act like you don't care, then you are trying to, not only hide your own emotions, but also cause that person to react in ways divergent from how they would if you were honest. It's a game. It's manipulation. And it isn't really wrong all the time. There are certainly times and places when needs must.

 

[JonathonWally]

I personally, and I acknowledge you might see it very differently, find hiding true, genuine emotions to be manipulative

I take issue with this. It's none of your business to know what emotions I'm feeling. I'm not "manipulating" you by doing so. Depriving you of intimate knowledge of myself? Sure, but that's my call. I'm not twisting or manipulating you or anyone else.

I find it ridiculous that just because you were manipulative and had under-handed motives for hiding your emotion (which you keep using to frame your statement) that you now project that ulterior motive unto others.

Well, i do agree that hiding emotions is manipulative, especially when they are expressed as opposite to what you actually feel. If someone pisses you off and you act like you don't care, then you are trying to, not only hide your own emotions, but also cause that person to react in ways divergent from how they would if you were honest. It's a game. It's manipulation. And it isn't really wrong all the time. There are certainly times and places when needs must.

There's a difference between "hiding emotion" and "not expressing emotion"

 

[HighteeHeller]

And that difference is?

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

And that difference is?

I don't know if this is what he means but my thoughts are that if someone is making fun of you and you just generally don't care and just continue with whatever you are doing without actually being bothered by it, you're not showing emotion because you simply don't care.


If someone is making fun of you and it hurts your feelings but you play it off as you pretending not to care when you really do, that would be hiding your (true) emotions.

 

[HighteeHeller]

Ya, but if you are not feeling the emotion then there is nothing to show, or hide. If however your feelings are hurt and you act differently then what your emotions are then you are either/or hiding not expressing your true emotions. Therefore its the same thing.

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

That's what he was saying though (the first line in your post) that not showing emotion = you don't have an emotion. I am assuming that is what he means, anyways.

I'm sleepy and might not be making sense, lol.

 

[Daneel]

Oh dear... I had a feeling things might get ugly in this thread.

Ok Daneel,you sound like Misc mod material to me

Thanks, although I'm not sure whether to be pleased or terrified at that prospect.

^^^^
Hey, if you think this is bad, you ought to see TNZ.

Personally, I find Misc. is usually a pretty good place, and a great way to get to know your fellow posters (for better or for worse, but usually the former, IMO). But I guess it's not for everyone, so to each his own.

Don't you be picking on TNZ now!

Oh, I can handle TNZ, even though I don't go in there too often. And I can certainly appreciate a "no holds barred" forum. But it definitely can get rough in there at times... Misc. is quite idyllic by comparison.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that things have cooled down in here, and that you've decided to stay, DN.

This thread makes me think that perhaps I do need to get more in touch with my emotions. Sometimes I think I must have some Vulcan blood in me. I'm sure my family would appreciate it if I was a little less withdrawn and closed-off... something to work on, I suppose.

 

[HighteeHeller]

You know what? This thread is riddled with ambiguities. Its not even fun, really.
I don't want to argue about how i perceive what i read as opposed to what you see. It's not even about the same thing any more when we do that.

I am amazed though not surprised at how this subject can have so many points of view yet none of them meeting in the middle.

I had a conversation with my boss a few weeks ago where he mentioned that women are so emotional, and that he wished they would be more like men. I said men tend to hide their emotions and that there should be a common ground, a middle ground that we can all meet upon. But it turns out so much gets lost in translation that no one seems to understand or want to understand each other. Its like a battle of who is right without anyone wanting to really give a little.

I've learned over the course of my life that mostly it's better to keep your mouth shut.

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

You know what? This thread is riddled with ambiguities. Its not even fun, really.
I don't want to argue about how i perceive what i read as opposed to what you see. It's not even about the same thing any more when we do that.

I am amazed though not surprised at how this subject can have so many points of view yet none of them meeting in the middle.

I had a conversation with my boss a few weeks ago where he mentioned that women are so emotional, and that he wished they would be more like men. I said men tend to hide their emotions and that there should be a common ground, a middle ground that we can all meet upon. But it turns out so much gets lost in translation that no one seems to understand or want to understand each other. Its like a battle of who is right without anyone wanting to really give a little.

I've learned over the course of my life that mostly it's better to keep your mouth shut.

Er...if that was directed at me, no one was arguing here, I was just trying to explain what I think he meant.....

 

[T J]

I can't believe what I've started here... I had no idea this subject would be so heated. This is the most human and interesting thread I've read in a while, lots of good stuff to learn.

 

[sidious618]

I had a conversation with my boss a few weeks ago where he mentioned that women are so emotional, and that he wished they would be more like men.

It comes down to social constructs, really. Women aren't genetically prone to cry more, it's just more socially acceptable for them to cry. For men it is not (although, that's decreasing with time which is good).

I've learned over the course of my life that mostly it's better to keep your mouth shut.

Yeah, that's something I'll never learn.

 

[HighteeHeller]

Er...if that was directed at me, no one was arguing here, I was just trying to explain what I think he meant.....

No. it wasn't directed at you. I got thinking about what i was going to say and why i thought they meant the same thing. Then i thought of the term 'grow some balls' or whatever it was about before, and realized that there's no way you can argue if two people don't even agree on the meaning of a word or phrase.

 

[Koinek]

Seriously guys, you want to win: Don't talk. Once they start yellling, start crying, whatever, just clam up, lean back and wait for them to be finished. Or, if you're going for extra piss off points, go outside work in the yard, and when she starts onto you about walking away just say you've already seen this play and it ends badly so you walked out of the show early.

I have a former professor and friend who is a psychology PhD and moonlights at a domestic dispute resolution center as a relationship therapist. He basically has one piece of advice:
Continue your discussion as if there is no crying involved and/or take the advice the above poster gave and return to it later.

I don't remember exactly what he said the benefit/point of doing it that was but the way I understood it, a partner's crying temporarily softens your resolve and therefore makes it harder for you to address a real issue you are facing. If said issue is then left unresolved due to your softening, it can crop up again and harm the relationship until you actually take care of it in a normal fashion.

 

[Deckerd]

My daughter cries at the drop of a hat. Always has done. It's just her way of dealing with stress. I expect she'll never have mental illness.