Oh my, I must start mispronouncing my name the English way now in order to be the proper English language scholar... It's common knowledge that perfect command of foreign language = mispronouncing your own name. See? Logical.
Why British actor for French-descened captain?
- Thread starter plynch
- Start date
That transmigration happened a lot, far enough back: Battle of Hastings, Hundred Years' War, etc. That's how we got Latinate words in English (a Germanic language). A Picard was actually among "we few, we happy few" serving under the Earl of Grey at Agincourt. Before Henry's rousing speech Jacques Picard (hard "d" at the time) lectured the French from across the plain, "We wah once like you: stupid, backwahd, unethical. But then we lahned to put aside our differences and eat crumpets blah blah blah.
I like Stewart and Picard, I really do. This thread brings out the worst in me.
There's really no point in questioning the casting choice. This is Patrick Stewart we're talking about. Regarding alien languages, as someone pointed out earlier, I always sort of assumed that the aquarium in Picard's ready room housed a school of Babel fish. 
Just to make sure I'm not completely imagining things I checked the french dub and voilà, he pronounces his name PiKAHr.
So a family emigrated to England, started pronouncing their name PiKAHD and after some generations moved back to France?
And it's not the casting choice I have a problem with. I love Patrick Stewart and I love him as Picard. I just wish someone had taught him some basic french.
That transmigration happened a lot, far enough back: Battle of Hastings, Hundred Years' War, etc. That's how we got Latinate words in English (a Germanic language). A Picard was actually among "we few, we happy few" serving under the Earl of Grey at Agincourt. Before Henry's rousing speech Jacques Picard (hard "d" at the time) lectured the French from across the plain, "We wah once like you: stupid, backwahd, unethical. But then we lahned to put aside our differences and eat crumpets blah blah blah.
So a family emigrated to England, started pronouncing their name PiKAHD and after some generations moved back to France?
And it's not the casting choice I have a problem with. I love Patrick Stewart and I love him as Picard. I just wish someone had taught him some basic french.
Following the reunification of 2112, when Britan's continental holdings were restored to the Crown, many former French subjects began to learn English. By Picards time the United Kingdom of Great Britain and France was mostly English speaking.Just to make sure I'm not completely imagining things I checked the french dub and voilà, he pronounces his name PiKAHr.
That transmigration happened a lot, far enough back: Battle of Hastings, Hundred Years' War, etc. That's how we got Latinate words in English (a Germanic language). A Picard was actually among "we few, we happy few" serving under the Earl of Grey at Agincourt. Before Henry's rousing speech Jacques Picard (hard "d" at the time) lectured the French from across the plain, "We wah once like you: stupid, backwahd, unethical. But then we lahned to put aside our differences and eat crumpets blah blah blah.
So a family emigrated to England, started pronouncing their name PiKAHD and after some generations moved back to France?
And it's not the casting choice I have a problem with. I love Patrick Stewart and I love him as Picard. I just wish someone had taught him some basic french.
Wow! Rule Brittania, hey!
Would you like Worcerstishire sauce with your Freedom Fries?
All I know is what John Gill taught me in history class.
Wow! Rule Brittania, hey!
Following the reunification of 2112, when Britan's continental holdings were restored to the Crown, many former French subjects began to learn English. By Picards time the United Kingdom of Great Britain and France was mostly English speaking.Just to make sure I'm not completely imagining things I checked the french dub and voilà, he pronounces his name PiKAHr.
That transmigration happened a lot, far enough back: Battle of Hastings, Hundred Years' War, etc. That's how we got Latinate words in English (a Germanic language). A Picard was actually among "we few, we happy few" serving under the Earl of Grey at Agincourt. Before Henry's rousing speech Jacques Picard (hard "d" at the time) lectured the French from across the plain, "We wah once like you: stupid, backwahd, unethical. But then we lahned to put aside our differences and eat crumpets blah blah blah.
So a family emigrated to England, started pronouncing their name PiKAHD and after some generations moved back to France?
And it's not the casting choice I have a problem with. I love Patrick Stewart and I love him as Picard. I just wish someone had taught him some basic french.
You might think you're joking, but check out the 1940 proposals for a union between France and the UK in face of the Nazi German invasion of the former.
And of course, the British royal family is descended from the French royoals. Up until about 1600, the monarch's full title included a claim to the throne of France as well, and I think France got priority (ie, 'King of France and England,' not the other way round... Richard the Lionheart certainly thought France was the more important bit...)
It's not. This current line's name was changed during World War I - for obvious reasons - from its original very Hanovarian Saxe-Coburg-Gotha - to the much more publicly-acceptable Windsor.
This crew only date back a couple of centuries, when the English were desperately flailing about trying to find a protestant princeling to hand the throne to.
Your larger point is valid however. The Norman invaders who wiped out the Saxon King Harold in 1066 came from Nomandy after all and for many, many generations, French was the official language of the court.
I think Sisko was a little bit French also.
Interesting thread.
I don't think there's anything unusual about a person coming from one country but speaking the language and enjoying the culture of another. Stewart would have sounded ridiculous putting on a French accent. Alexander Siddig is from Sudan originally, but he speaks with an RP English accent (when he speaks English, obv. Along with all the other languages he can speak!)
I always assumed that the good Captain pronounced the 'd' at the end of 'Picard' because if he didn't a) people might not have understood what his name was (not everyone knows the pronunciation rules of French) and 2) he would have sounded like a bit of a flouncy dandy with his hoity-toity fancy French name
Also, the phrase 'British accent' doesn't sit well with me, because when non-natives use the phrase they usually seem to mean RP English. There is no British accent. We have more regional accents than Roseann Barr's had hot dinners.
@ Thor Damar - people do still speak with the Last of the Summer Wine accent. I live in York and Mr OYD!'s family are Yorkshire born and bred. His grandad has the thickest Yorkshire accent. I like to think that the accent still exists in the 24th century. I would have loved to see a Yorkshireman on a starship. If it's good enough for Paddy Stewart then it's good enough for Sean Bean!
I don't think there's anything unusual about a person coming from one country but speaking the language and enjoying the culture of another. Stewart would have sounded ridiculous putting on a French accent. Alexander Siddig is from Sudan originally, but he speaks with an RP English accent (when he speaks English, obv. Along with all the other languages he can speak!)
I always assumed that the good Captain pronounced the 'd' at the end of 'Picard' because if he didn't a) people might not have understood what his name was (not everyone knows the pronunciation rules of French) and 2) he would have sounded like a bit of a flouncy dandy with his hoity-toity fancy French name
Also, the phrase 'British accent' doesn't sit well with me, because when non-natives use the phrase they usually seem to mean RP English. There is no British accent. We have more regional accents than Roseann Barr's had hot dinners.
@ Thor Damar - people do still speak with the Last of the Summer Wine accent. I live in York and Mr OYD!'s family are Yorkshire born and bred. His grandad has the thickest Yorkshire accent. I like to think that the accent still exists in the 24th century. I would have loved to see a Yorkshireman on a starship. If it's good enough for Paddy Stewart then it's good enough for Sean Bean!
Didn't he grow up in Britain? And his mother is British (Malcolm McDowell's sister).
@ Thor Damar - people do still speak with the Last of the Summer Wine accent. I live in York and Mr OYD!'s family are Yorkshire born and bred. His grandad has the thickest Yorkshire accent. I like to think that the accent still exists in the 24th century. I would have loved to see a Yorkshireman on a starship. If it's good enough for Paddy Stewart then it's good enough for Sean Bean!
I for one am delighted to hear it. I would hate it - just hate it - if all these wonderful accents went away. And I really loathe it when people are accused of "mispronouncing" a word simply because they pronounce it the way it's pronounced in their native dialect. And even though I am a total grammar geek, what constitutes "standard grammar" varies from dialect to dialect, too. Vive la difference!
Yeah he did, he went to school in Ramsgate, I believe, and then University College London. He speaks a lot of languages, his mum is English and his dad Sudanese, so I assume he would have been one of these clever types who is bilingual as a youngster. What a talented man he is
I'm joking, but also aware of the history.Following the reunification of 2112, when Britan's continental holdings were restored to the Crown, many former French subjects began to learn English. By Picards time the United Kingdom of Great Britain and France was mostly English speaking.Just to make sure I'm not completely imagining things I checked the french dub and voilà, he pronounces his name PiKAHr.
So a family emigrated to England, started pronouncing their name PiKAHD and after some generations moved back to France?
And it's not the casting choice I have a problem with. I love Patrick Stewart and I love him as Picard. I just wish someone had taught him some basic french.
You might think you're joking, but check out the 1940 proposals for a union between France and the UK in face of the Nazi German invasion of the former.
And of course, the British royal family is descended from the French royoals. Up until about 1600, the monarch's full title included a claim to the throne of France as well, and I think France got priority (ie, 'King of France and England,' not the other way round... Richard the Lionheart certainly thought France was the more important bit...)
I just mentioned that the "r" isn't emphasized, not that it isn't pronounced at all. It's the "d" that isn't pronounced - and I'm quite sure about that, at least I hope my years of learning French didn't go completely to waste.
No, you're right about that. And I was also surprised by that when I watched TNG in the original version for the first time. We even joked that in 'Tapestry' Q would mispronounce the name by pronouncing it correctly.
Of course, I only learned Standard French at school and there are plenty of nasty accents in France. So, maybe, there is also one where Picard would be prounounced with the d. But if I remember correctly, he also pronounces his first name in a rather un-French way...
I think it's not that easy for English native speakers to pronounce French correctly. I believe that's the whole explanation.
I don't really mind. He's still The Picard.
