Since When Is The Motion Picture A Good Trek Film?

[JustKate]

I was there as a pre-teen, and yes it was a big deal, I was so excited, what a colossal disappointment it was to me back then, and nothing really changed since then. Then The Wrath Of Khan came out and made it look even worse, if you know what I mean, because I loved that movie just like all the other Trek fans do.

Oh, definitely not "all."

So are you saying you hate what is considered to be one of the best Trek movies?

Actually, all I said was that not all Trek fans love The Wrath of Khan. Which is true. You can find threads in this very forum that discuss that topic thoroughly. Many and probably most Trek fans consider it the best of the Trek films (although that doesn't necessarily mean that they "love" it), but not all.

But since you asked, no, I didn't like it much, though it had its good moments. I have actually loved none - not one - of the movies, including TMP, though I've liked several of them and liked a couple of them a lot. TWOK isn't one of the ones I like, though.

The reason? Contrary to most - though not "all" - Trek fans, I have never considered Khan to be a compelling villain, and that was starting with his first appearance on TOS back in 1968 or whenever it was. That's a big problem when the movie is called The Wrath of Khan.

And in case you're wondering, I've been a Trek fan since TOS premiered. So I think I've earned the right to have some opinions contrary to the norm.

 

[Maurice]

Count me in as someone else who doesn't love TWOK.

 

[Psion]

Throw me into the "doesn't love Khan" bin, as well. It has its moments, but I watch the film a lot less than I do TMP. The Motion Picture remains my favorite Trek feature up to and including current fare.

 

[Therin of Andor]

So are you saying you hate what is considered to be one of the best Trek movies?

I certainly don't hate ST II, but as a 21-year old whose first overwhelming ST experience was ST:TMP (having only seen a few random TOS and b/w TAS), it just didn't compare.

TMP was such a great personal movie experience for me, but as I began meeting other ST fans, many who'd been around since the 60s TV series, I realised I was quite alone in counting TMP a favourite.

ST II was great in that I was able to follow all the pre-publicity, attend the premiere (and a sneak preview) with hundreds of other costumed fans, and take part in the speculations of what might happen to Spock (and Saavik) in future movies, but I really missed the music and uniforms of TMP, the new Starfleet alien crewmembers, that feeling of being on the Enterprise that came with TMP.

 

[Blue_Trek]

WOW, you guys are hardcore old school Trek people, a different breed of fan, but hey it is what is, if you like the TMP so much go crazy with the Blu-ray then and enjoy.

I remember watching Trek in the seventies as a kid and enjoying it so much, when people would talk about the new Star Wars movie at that time, they would always say it's like Star Trek, as that was the closest reference point people had at the time back in 77.

Then 1979 came along and maybe when a ten year old kid compared Star Wars to TMP Star Trek the letdown was virtually inevitable, that's my personal experience.

But as I said in another post I tried to re-watch it 25 years later and I still feel the same way, no change. But I never felt that way about any of the other Trek movies, strangely enough.

In the end personal opinion is what it is.

 

[RyuRoots]

I was there as a pre-teen, and yes it was a big deal, I was so excited, what a colossal disappointment it was to me back then, and nothing really changed since then. Then The Wrath Of Khan came out and made it look even worse, if you know what I mean, because I loved that movie just like all the other Trek fans do.

Oh, definitely not "all."

So are you saying you hate what is considered to be one of the best Trek movies?

I, for one, do. Popular opinion does nothing to influence my perception of the quality of a film. None of the TOS films were any good 'cept IV and VI as far as I'm concerned. But not to derail the topic; just pointing out again that not every ST fan loves TWOK, even if a large number do.

I understand that TMP was a big deal in '79, and I can appreciate that it was a big deal being the first Trek since the end of TOS' third season. I still think it's a dull, plodding film.

 

[Psion]

It was Star Wars, I think, that set the stage for disappointment with TMP. Not because it was so much better, but because it redefined what people expected from a sci-fi blockbuster. Prior to 1977, a big science fiction film could look like 2001: A Space Odyssey, Logan's Run, Planet of the Apes, or Andromeda Strain. But after Star Wars, the audience expected lots more action and less talking. Those folks who expected to see "lazer blasts" were sorely disappointed when the Starship Enterprise fired only one photon torpedo. Those who appreciated tension that rose from the situation, who wanted a slower-paced, realistic look into the world that birthed the Enterprise weren't.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture was a serious attempt to do intelligent science fiction. It showed thoughtful growth of the major characters. Its story, though a retread of some ideas from the original series, was still compelling enough to earn the film a box office take that ten succeeding popcorn-adventure Trek films couldn't top.

I hope to see another director attempt another serious take on Star Trek some day. Abram's film, while fun, certainly doesn't qualify, but it does demonstrate continued interest in the franchise by both the studio and the audience.

 

[Blue_Trek]

Star Trek: The Motion Picture was a serious attempt to do intelligent science fiction. It showed thoughtful growth of the major characters. Its story, though a retread of some ideas from the original series, was still compelling enough to earn the film a box office take that ten succeeding popcorn-adventure Trek films couldn't top.

Slight correction "9 movies" 09 beats 79 by any metric you choose to use, for cash in.

Star Trek 09 now sits at the #1 spot

http://trekmovie.com/2009/06/20/sta...mce-most-attended-film-in-franchise-domestic/

Most attended Star Trek film (domestically)
The big milestone that Star Trek passed on Friday was the inflation adjusted domestic gross for Star Trek The Motion Picture of $235,305,065 (based off Box Office Mojo’s 1979 $82,258,456M gross, adjusted for 1979 ticket prices). Based on the the Friday estimated total for Star Trek of $235,994,000, the new movie is almost $700K past the TMP mark, and has now sold more tickets domestically than any Trek film ever.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek11.htm
At over $378 million worldwide.

 

[plynch]

I hope to see another director attempt another serious take on Star Trek some day. Abram's film, while fun, certainly doesn't qualify, but it does demonstrate continued interest in the franchise by both the studio and the audience.

I started a thread asking if I should hope JJ would take us in a more "cerebral" direction for ST XII and save the franchise from smash-mouth defeat-the-evil-bad-guy plots. I am unfamiliar with his other movies. The consensus was "Don't get your hopes up."

 

[plynch]

Star Trek 09 now sits at the #1 spot

http://trekmovie.com/2009/06/20/sta...mce-most-attended-film-in-franchise-domestic/

Most attended Star Trek film (domestically)
The big milestone that Star Trek passed on Friday was the inflation adjusted domestic gross for Star Trek The Motion Picture of $235,305,065 (based off Box Office Mojo’s 1979 $82,258,456M gross, adjusted for 1979 ticket prices). Based on the the Friday estimated total for Star Trek of $235,994,000, the new movie is almost $700K past the TMP mark, and has now sold more tickets domestically than any Trek film ever.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek11.htm
At over $378 million worldwide.

Surely you're not suggesting that mass appeal is evidence that something is good? Whether it's TMP OR STXI.

 

[Shazam!]

I think anyone who does't like TWOK is merely invoking the spirit of contradiction.

 

[Blue_Trek]

Star Trek 09 now sits at the #1 spot

http://trekmovie.com/2009/06/20/sta...mce-most-attended-film-in-franchise-domestic/

Most attended Star Trek film (domestically)
The big milestone that Star Trek passed on Friday was the inflation adjusted domestic gross for Star Trek The Motion Picture of $235,305,065 (based off Box Office Mojo’s 1979 $82,258,456M gross, adjusted for 1979 ticket prices). Based on the the Friday estimated total for Star Trek of $235,994,000, the new movie is almost $700K past the TMP mark, and has now sold more tickets domestically than any Trek film ever.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek11.htm
At over $378 million worldwide.

Surely you're not suggesting that mass appeal is evidence that something is good? Whether it's TMP OR STXI.

Actually no, Transformers 2 is good/bad example of this. Terribly low ratings
but massive amounts of money in. Or even The Phantom Menace which was more of the mid-range on ratings, but still.

But high dollars in and high ratings combined trumps all, which Trek 09 accomplished.
Any movie that does over 375 million worldwide and receives over a 90 on Rotten Tomato's scale is by any standard a good movie, not liking it is a personal opinion that deviates from the general consensus. Which we all admittedly do at times. The reality is we are only right from our own personal perspective in that case.

 

[Psion]

Star Trek: The Motion Picture was a serious attempt to do intelligent science fiction. It showed thoughtful growth of the major characters. Its story, though a retread of some ideas from the original series, was still compelling enough to earn the film a box office take that ten succeeding popcorn-adventure Trek films couldn't top.

Slight correction "9 movies" 09 beats 79 by any metric you choose to use, for cash in.

Star Trek 09 now sits at the #1 spot

http://trekmovie.com/2009/06/20/sta...mce-most-attended-film-in-franchise-domestic/

Most attended Star Trek film (domestically)
The big milestone that Star Trek passed on Friday was the inflation adjusted domestic gross for Star Trek The Motion Picture of $235,305,065 (based off Box Office Mojo’s 1979 $82,258,456M gross, adjusted for 1979 ticket prices). Based on the the Friday estimated total for Star Trek of $235,994,000, the new movie is almost $700K past the TMP mark, and has now sold more tickets domestically than any Trek film ever.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek11.htm
At over $378 million worldwide.

That's what I meant, but at 4:20 in the morning, 10 + 1 looked right. I'm aware of the adjusted box office figures, yet I'll stand corrected.

 

[Stardate]

Star Trek: The Motion Picture was a serious attempt to do intelligent science fiction. It showed thoughtful growth of the major characters. Its story, though a retread of some ideas from the original series, was still compelling enough to earn the film a box office take that ten succeeding popcorn-adventure Trek films couldn't top.

Slight correction "9 movies" 09 beats 79 by any metric you choose to use, for cash in.

Star Trek 09 now sits at the #1 spot


At over $378 million worldwide.

I will take any information from Trekmovie with a grain of salt. They are VERY pro S09 and thay are relaying on mojo box office numbers that uses last year average ticket price $7.18 dollars. There are many sites that put ST:TMP domestic gross at circa $240 million. We have to wait until next year when this year average ticket price is calculated to really see how many tickets S09 sold. Until then it is all guess work.
Anyway for now i concede that S09 sites at the #1 spot domestically but it is very close between these 2 films. However it is the foreign gross that secures ST:TMP overall top spot worldwide with circa $400 million gross.

 

[plynch]

Any movie that does over 375 million worldwide and receives over a 90 on Rotten Tomato's scale is by any standard a good movie, not liking it is a personal opinion that deviates from the general consensus. Which we all admittedly do at times. The reality is we are only right from our own personal perspective in that case.

Very rationally put.

Of course Gandhi said, "Even if you are a minority of one the truth is still the truth."

ST XI does its thing very well, I freely concede. It's just not my thing. Be well.

 

[Anticitizen]

Slight correction "9 movies" 09 beats 79 by any metric you choose to use, for cash in.

Actually, if you account for the fact that the US population has increased by 50 million since 1979, a $700k increase, even adjusted for inflation, isn't particularly impressive. It means a larger percentage of the population saw TMP. So, there's a metric in favor of TMP.

And looking at global population increases versus global take only reinforces that more strongly, especially seeing as how it's easier and more common nowadays to have movies released overseas in due time/more places.

Just sayin'.

 

[Psion]

I knew I should have stood defiant! Hayden and Anticitizen, those are fascinating leads for analysis. Well done.

 

[Omega_Glory]

Since late 1979.

Precisely.

 

[plynch]

Since late 1979.

Precisely.

NOW WAIT!! I posted that 1979 answer a while back (without reading the 15 pages of posts already made, granted) and people ripped me a new one for being repetitive (see above - hard to miss).

Where's the justice??!!

 

[Omega_Glory]

There is no justice.

And the 1979 comment was the best one anyway.