Babylon 5 (4th trip)

[trentman359]

"Survivors"

"Garibaldi's past catches up to him, with some disastrous consequences. He's blamed by some for an accident aboard B5, which leads to hitting the bottle again after a prolonged abstinence."

Another fairly standard sci-fi plot. A main character is accused of a crime they would never commit. What made this episode better was that Garibaldi failed. When times got too tough he went back to the bottle. And this would be a problem that would stick with him for the rest of the show. I really like that and I think that might be why Garibaldi is one of my favorite characters.

 

[Neroon]

"Believers" is for my money not a bad episode, but again that's in light of a few other episodes. As for "Grey 17..." half of it stinks, but the Marcus/Neroon conflict is good. Very good!

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I don't even want to watch "Believers." It is an average TNG episode at best. But I gotta do it. So here we go.

If it were really an average episode of TNG, the parents' religious beliefs would be questioned by another one of Picard's "humanity has evolved" speeches, and Crusher and Geordi would spend half the episode devising some silly "tech-tech" device that allows the kid to be operated on without having to be cut open.

We'd learn nothing about Crusher's character in the process like we learn about Franklin's, because the "tech-tech" device saves the day. Not only that, but the only conflict between Picard and Crusher would've been some lip service on the Prime Directive, all the while dismissing the parents as being backwards thinking and overzealous.

 

[Harvey]

"Survivors"

"Garibaldi's past catches up to him, with some disastrous consequences. He's blamed by some for an accident aboard B5, which leads to hitting the bottle again after a prolonged abstinence."

Another fairly standard sci-fi plot. A main character is accused of a crime they would never commit. What made this episode better was that Garibaldi failed. When times got too tough he went back to the bottle. And this would be a problem that would stick with him for the rest of the show. I really like that and I think that might be why Garibaldi is one of my favorite characters.

I'm not a big fan of this one. Garibaldi's friend is never heard from nor seen again, and his relapse back into the bottle is quickly reversed by the end of the episode. I found his trials with alcoholism in the fifth season to be more interesting.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I don't even want to watch "Believers." It is an average TNG episode at best. But I gotta do it. So here we go.

"Survivors"

"Garibaldi's past catches up to him, with some disastrous consequences. He's blamed by some for an accident aboard B5, which leads to hitting the bottle again after a prolonged abstinence."

Another fairly standard sci-fi plot. A main character is accused of a crime they would never commit. What made this episode better was that Garibaldi failed. When times got too tough he went back to the bottle. And this would be a problem that would stick with him for the rest of the show. I really like that and I think that might be why Garibaldi is one of my favorite characters.

I'm not a big fan of this one. Garibaldi's friend is never heard from nor seen again, and his relapse back into the bottle is quickly reversed by the end of the episode. I found his trials with alcoholism in the fifth season to be more interesting.

The manner in which Garabaldi's alcoholism is handled felt cliched and easy. Of all the first season stories, this is the most Trek in its character development since Garabaldi nicks his relapse by the end of the hour and by the next episode it's all but forgotten.

Upon reflection, I'd wished that Garabaldi's alcoholism was dealt with more throughout the series, as it was done in season five, so that we'd get a better sense of his struggles with the bottle.

 

[Neroon]

I'm glad they didn't carry it out that long, as it might have drained the more primary arcs of energy. Limiting it to a significant portion of one season - with a couple of oblique references in individual episodes such as GROPOS - seemed to strike the right balance.

 

[Reverend]

Plus it would have radically changed the nature of his character, he simply wasn't that guy anymore. The reason his brief relapse wasn't touched on again was precisely because it was just that - brief. He didn't have the underlying psychological weakness that caused his full blown reversion in season 5. Plus of course it would have strained credibility if every few episodes he was shown to on the verge of crawling back into the bottle again, he couldn't even keep that up for half a year before getting the sack.
It made more sense to show a recovering alcoholic keeping it mostly together so that when they gave Franklin the stims addiction, they could play that off a character that had been there already.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I'm glad they didn't carry it out that long, as it might have drained the more primary arcs of energy. Limiting it to a significant portion of one season - with a couple of oblique references in individual episodes such as GROPOS - seemed to strike the right balance.

It made more sense to show a recovering alcoholic keeping it mostly together so that when they gave Franklin the stims addiction, they could play that off a character that had been there already.

Good points, and ones I hadn't taken into consideration in my previous post. Moreover, having Garabaldi shown as a "successful" recovering alcoholic makes his season five bout with the booze play much stronger. If his addiction had been played up more throughout the series, then his fall of the wagon in season five would've felt flat.

 

[Neroon]

And you make a good point yourself, about seeing an apparently successful recovering alcoholic and the effects it has on his later relapse. As painful and uncomfortable as it was to watch - Garibaldi's S5 costume is one of my best - it did make for compelling storytelling, imho.

 

[Harvey]

It's not that he recovers from a brief relapse for me, it's that the episode does it so patly. It doesn't feel right for the show, and in the script books the writer expresses how many of the changes he was forced to make from his version to the shooting script gutted the episode. But YMMV.

 

[Reverend]

'Survivors' certainly isn't the best B5 episode, even for season 1 and it does feel a little on the pedestrian side. I don't have access to the script books, but I'd be interesting to know what changed from script to screen.

If I had to guess I'd imagined the reason his brief lapse was sort of glossed over was mostly down to there only being 40 odd minutes in which to fit in a pretty full story and when it came to which skeleton on Garabaldi's closet to shine a light on, they probably didn't want the booze to eclipse Lianna's father.

 

[Jan]

'Survivors' certainly isn't the best B5 episode, even for season 1 and it does feel a little on the pedestrian side. I don't have access to the script books, but I'd be interesting to know what changed from script to screen.

I did the 'Joe Cuts*' inventory for the Other Voices books so I'll take a look and post some of them later today unless somebody else beats me to it.

Jan
* 'Joe Cuts' was what we called an inventory of the changes between the scripts in the books and the show on the DVDs.

 

[Harvey]

I'm busy at work right now, but as I recall Jan, you had a *lot* of Joe Cuts for that episode--perhaps more than any other, although I could be mistaken.

 

[Jan]

I'm busy at work right now, but as I recall Jan, you had a *lot* of Joe Cuts for that episode--perhaps more than any other, although I could be mistaken.

Yes, there are definitely a lot - 45 of them!

Since this is copyrighted and I don't have permission to post a whole lot, here are some samples. One thing that's notable about the script version (writer's draft, usually seems to precede a real first draft) is that it had 5 full scenes plus the teaser, very different from B5s teaser, 4 acts and a tag.

A scene in the Zocalo of an ISN broadcast regarding the president’s trip to B5 and the reasons for it are not in this version of the script.

While discussing possible causes of the explosion, Garibaldi describes a safety protocol and Franklin asks if Garibaldi could have made a mistake. Garibaldi is insulted and asks Franklin about mistakes he might have made.

In C&C, Ivanova reports the alert for Garibldi. Sinclair orders it cancelled but Kemmer arrives and countermands the order. Sinclair orders the alert cancelled and Kemmer off of the Observation Dome. Sinclair leaves to search for Garibaldi and Ivanova orders a diagnostic on outgoing communications channels.

Garibaldi contemplates taking a drink but resists. He’s assaulted by Dagool.

Garibaldi contemplates taking a drink but resists. He’s assaulted by Dagool.

Kemmer fires her PPG at a door and being hit by a ricochet. Garibaldi drags her to an airlock and blasts the door shut. He confronts her, trying to reach through her hate but has to run from security.

Drunk Garibaldi goes to Sinclair’s quarters where Sinclair has discovered that the account number given to him by Londo belonged to a Centauri consortium which took advantage of the explosion to frame him.

One thing I disagree with Marc Scott Zicree on is his saying that Garibaldi's slip off the wagon was played for comedy. Yes, he did some mildly funny things in the bar but overall I think it was shown as a serious issue for him.

Jan

 

[Reverend]

In C&C, Ivanova reports the alert for Garibldi. Sinclair orders it cancelled but Kemmer arrives and countermands the order. Sinclair orders the alert cancelled and Kemmer off of the Observation Dome. Sinclair leaves to search for Garibaldi and Ivanova orders a diagnostic on outgoing communications channels.

Hang on, isn't that scene in the show?

 

[ST-One]

In C&C, Ivanova reports the alert for Garibldi. Sinclair orders it cancelled but Kemmer arrives and countermands the order. Sinclair orders the alert cancelled and Kemmer off of the Observation Dome. Sinclair leaves to search for Garibaldi and Ivanova orders a diagnostic on outgoing communications channels.

Hang on, isn't that scene in the show?

It is.

 

[Jan]

Sorry, that wasn't clear to those who don't have the books. It was designated an 'Added Scene' because it was on the DVD but not in the script version chosen for the script books. Sorry, if I'd thought for a minute I'd have known better than to put that in.

Jan

 

[trentman359]

"By Any Means Necessary"

"An accident in the docking area kills a worker, threatening to spark an illegal strike. Londo interferes in an important Narn religious observation which leads to a confrontation between him and G'Kar."

A good episode that dealt with real problems that the station would have. In the first scene with the workers they all held generic tools. That was kinda lame.

 

[trentman359]

"Signs and Portents"

"A sharp increase in raider activity has the station on the defensive. Londo obtains a priceless Centauri artifact. A mysterious stranger visits the station's alien ambassadors."

Possibly the best episode of the season. Every scene, every piece of dialogue had a meaning in this episode. Its one of those episodes that amazes you. After watching the show for the 4th time you realize how much this thing was planned. Even the destruction of the station was a shot that was actually use later. I took greater notice to G'Kar's scene with Mr. Morden. G'Kar gets everything that he said he wanted. And of course we start to see Molari's rise and fall. Just awesome stuff. Classic B5.

 

[Michael Chris]

I've been having a massive B5 marathon. Love this show.