Captain Jellico: Totally Awesome, or Lame?

[T'Cal]

From what I can see, Jellico seems like an AWESOME war captain--

But a terrible "explorer" captain.

He don't take any , and that's both a blessing...and a curse.

"But a terrible 'explorer' captain." That seems a bit strong to me as we never got to seem him in that role. We, the audience, were manipulated in ths episode. Riker is generally a likable character and in this episode we are supposed to sympathize with him because he didn't get a shot at the big chair. At first, I liked how he stood up to Jellico. But upon further reflection, I realized that Riker acted immaturely and selfishly when he failed to recognize that he was not the right man for the job; that's usually not the case with this character. Jellico was the right man and that was proven on screen. Jellico was given command of an important mission: prevent a war with Cardassia. No one on board had the experience he had with that race. I truly like Jellico in this two-parter and wished they had promoted him and used him (as played masterfully by Ronny Cox) in DS9 instead of Adm. Ross.

 

[SeerSGB]

As much as I like Sisko, I think Jellico would have made a great commander for the station.

 

[Geckothan]

He's almost as badass as Captain Robau.

 

[CaptainStoner]

As much as I like Sisko, I think Jellico would have made a great commander for the station.

He would not have been flexible enough to adapt to the dynamics of DS9, which would have proven his undoing IMO.
I think he'd make a good Fleet Captain...in fact, there is a very good chance he met his end during FC.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Captain Jellico is on Robau's speed dial.

Badass.

 

[Rush Limborg]

That seems a bit strong to me as we never got to seem him in that role.

Well...Peter David features Jellico in a lot of his books. He's more of a bitter, frustrated fellow who seems to have an inherant dislike of the phrase "With all due respect..."

But he's an admiral, though. Maybe he just misses being a captain, and is royally ticked that the younger folks are running things out there now....

I wonder if Kirk was like that when he was an Admiral....

 

[T'Cal]

I've read some of those novels and don't particularly care for what they've done with him. We saw so little of Jellico that we don't know his true potential as an explorer or leader. Clearly, he possessed skills as a tactician, diplomat, and warrior. In addition, we know he's a family man with at least one young son (at the time of the ep.). In fact during that scene with Deanna, we saw a brief look at his softer side. We never got the opportunity to see him on any other mission. Jellico's mission on the the Enterprise was to avert a war with Cardassia, and he did it quite successfully. It was clear to him all along what his mission was. He understood the art of war, as Riker should have. His focus was clear and Riker and crew failed to understand the importance of their mission. Instead they whined and complained. They fell apart a bit without Dad (Picard) around. Shame on them. As I said before, Riker's role in this episode was written quite out of character. I would've expected him to be disappointed at not being put in charge of the mission but also keeping that to himself (or maybe sharing it with only his Imzadi). He should've been the consummate XO and realized the importance of the success of that mission. He should've gotten the crew rallyed to get the job done. Instead he put the safety of billions at risk by being selfish. This was certainly not Riker's finest moment.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

As I said, Riker and the others definitely dropped the ball in this episode.

But I'm surprised to see so many people defending Jellico. I watched this ep. a couple of years ago with a friend who was a Major in the Army. He was critical of Riker, but also quite critical of Jellico.

I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was something like "You need your men to be willing to follow your orders, but you also need their respect. You don't become a good leader by alienating your men from you. This guy isn't going to be backed up by them when he needs it."

Point being, it didn't really matter that the crew didn't LIKE Jellico. They out and out didn't respect him and thought he sucked and was an ass. And you don't want your men thinking of you that way. And that was a huge failure on Jellico's part.

 

[SeerSGB]

Well we did see a "softer" side to Jellico when he was in the shuttle with Geordi swapping stories about flying shuttles and talking about who'd be the best pilot on the ship for the mission. I've always chalked a lot of his hard assness up to 1) Preparing to go to war 2) I think Picard pissed him off at them a little when he tried to tell Jellico how to run his command; which I thought was a bit assholeish of Picard, considering if he was in Jellico's place he wouldn't take it either.

 

[Mojochi]

He was a little sharp, but my middle school band teacher was scarier than Jellico. That's not an exaggeration.

Holy crap! So was mine. I realize this is off topic, but what is it about Middle School band teachers that makes them such jerks? LOL

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

As I said, Riker and the others definitely dropped the ball in this episode.

But I'm surprised to see so many people defending Jellico. I watched this ep. a couple of years ago with a friend who was a Major in the Army. He was critical of Riker, but also quite critical of Jellico.

I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was something like "You need your men to be willing to follow your orders, but you also need their respect. You don't become a good leader by alienating your men from you. This guy isn't going to be backed up by them when he needs it."

Point being, it didn't really matter that the crew didn't LIKE Jellico. They out and out didn't respect him and thought he sucked and was an ass. And you don't want your men thinking of you that way. And that was a huge failure on Jellico's part.

This is what I can't stand about Jellico he did NOT seem to respect The ENT Crew

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

seems to have an inherant dislike of the phrase "With all due respect..."

He's not alone.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

When someone says "With all due respect..." they really mean "Kiss my ass."

 

[Destructor]

I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was something like "You need your men to be willing to follow your orders, but you also need their respect. You don't become a good leader by alienating your men from you. This guy isn't going to be backed up by them when he needs it."

Point being, it didn't really matter that the crew didn't LIKE Jellico. They out and out didn't respect him and thought he sucked and was an ass. And you don't want your men thinking of you that way. And that was a huge failure on Jellico's part.

I think this is right, but I think the crew pushed back against him far too hard. I just think of the scene in 'Master & Commander' where the lower decks are insubordinate to one of the officers and so Aubrey has the crewman WHIPPED, then says to the officer: "They need to respect you before they can like you."

This is true.

 

[Trekker4747]

When someone says "With all due respect..." they really mean "Kiss my ass."

Depends on how you say it.

The Old Man said it dripping with beaurcatic assholishness.

Someone above put it nicely, being a good leader isn't about storming into a place, making unreasonable demands and changes in a "my way or the highway"/"Get it done." kind of way. It's about getting your subordinates to respect you enough and understand you enough to listen to and carry out your demands.

Now, again, it was a extreme situation Jellico was entering into but, still, a bit more of a "honeymoon" period could've been called for.

I also like how he drips with disdain when he hands Picard back his book.

It's dripping with, "Silly little quasi-British/not really French man who reads books. This is MY office! I don't need books to read or a FISH. I need to hang up kids' drawings.

(Which, OK, was kind of sweet.)

 

[SeerSGB]

What I took about Jellicos was that he was a family man that was thrown into a situation where he was expecting a crew-- the best of the best-- to appreciate why he had to be an ass to them. We see that he cares about his family and the Federation. He's stressed he's expecting a war, there's no time to pull a Picard and have meetings and talk everything and more or less run the mission committee; he knows what needs to be done and on what time table. Instead of getting off their asses and getting it done, he's got a first officer and a crew that's bucking up at virtually everything, and a former CO trying to tell him how to run his shop.

 

[LeadHead]

Never liked Jellico.

Rikers analysis of his command style was spot on. The crew would go out of their way to make things work for Picard willingly and often with a smile. For Jellico, they wouldn't taking the Federations Flagship down a notch all because of bad attitude and Command Style.

A Captain has got to run a good ship, but the best thing he could have done to accomplish that was adjust himself a little and he was too stubborn and self absorbed to do that.

Works for a desk jockey, not a Captain.

 

[trevanian]

Well we did see a "softer" side to Jellico when he was in the shuttle with Geordi swapping stories about flying shuttles and talking about who'd be the best pilot on the ship for the mission.

As much as I like and admire Jellico, THAT scene smacked of 'bad manager trying to get info out of smarter underling' to me.

Then again, I'm the only person I know who thought at the end of HANNA AND HER SISTERS, when Woody's new wife announces she is pregnant, that she cheated on him, instead of just accepting it as a miracle, which I guess I was supposed to do. Always look on the dark side of life.

 

[Rush Limborg]

A Captain has got to run a good ship, but the best thing he could have done to accomplish that was adjust himself a little and he was too stubborn and self absorbed to do that.

Works for a desk jockey, not a Captain.

And a drill seargent.

Like I said: Good war captain--bad peace captain.

 

[JewelsNeeJulian]

having worked around many military types, I can say Jellico isn't the worst officer example. The man was Focused and had a mission and he wanted to adjust the ship to combat efficency.

Granted, he could have handled it a bit better, but frankly the TNG crew were being wankers. Starfleet is charged with Defending the Federation as well as exploration. Starfleet Says go somewhere and do something under captains orders, you do it and you make do with what you have. Your opinion doesn't matter.