Worst Episode Not Involving Lizard Babies

[exodus]

^^
"Jetrel" is among my top 20. Actually an example of a good, touching story. Not to mention how Neelix's tragic background was revealed.Suddenly the character had another depth than being just the comic guy in the set.

Jetrel was terrible. The guy invented a device that killed 400,000 talaxians...if one photon torpedo was detonated in San-Francisco how many millions of people would be killed?

He also did it to protect his race. We learn in the episode that Neelix didn't fight in the war because he disagreed with how aggressive Talax was being. Hmm wonder why Jetrel may have felt motivated to create a weapon to counter aggressors. The writing was terrible, from the get go we are only allowed to think Jetrel = Bad Guy...no wiggle room. Star Trek is at its best when it isn't ramming down our throats what we should think...

I disagree.
I think many Trek goes out of it's way sometimes to show "bad guys" have a human compassion for things outside of their cause. However, Jetrel did as he was told during a time of war. How do we know that dening his government wouldn't black list him as a traitor? The fact that he had guilt over what he created showed that even bad guys have compassion. Let not forget during war it was America that dropped a bomb on the Japanese. Too many innocent Japanese people, we are the face of Jetrel.

 

[Square]

Did you know Fuller originally wanted to extend "Year of Hell" to include an entire season with NO reset button?

I'm pretty sure it was Brannon Braga that wanted to do that.

As for "Endgame," for starters, the plan was to have Janeway allow the Borg to assimilate the entire crew as a means to transmit the virus.

I'm also pretty sure this idea had nothingto do with "Endgame". Fuller gave an interview to the Star Trek The Magazine back in the spring of 2001 where he listed some of the story ideas he had that ultimately weren't developed.

He wanted to do a "Tapestry" type episode where the crew got assimilated and just as Janeway was about to get stuck with a drone's injection tubules Q whisks her away where he has her confront the decisions she made over the last seven years. In the end, the Janeway learns her lesson and Q saves the crew. It was in no way tied to the series finale. It was bandied about as a Q episode but they decided to go with "Q2"

He also discussed the original idea he had for "Workforce" where instead of being captured and brainwashed by the aliens to be labor on an industrial world, the crew all died in the sabotage that crippled VOY but the aliens would have been the ones from "Ashes to Ashes" who took dead bodies and altered them into their species. The crew wouldn't have been slave labor but have started new lives on this world including Janeway and Chakotay as lovers. Eventually the doctor would have developed an antidote.

Fuller also mentioned in that same article that he lobbied for the idea in season four to incorporate Roxann's pregnancy by having her kidnapped by the Vidiians who had discovered in the intervening years that the key to their salvation wasn't B'elanna but a pure Klingon child. The Vidiians would have done some hideous experiments to her. She would have been rescued but when Roxann took maternity leave they would have had the Vidiians launch another assault and capture her explaining her absence. This story fragment morphed into part of the "Prophecy" episode.

These were merely ideas. They could have been interesting depending on how they were developed. My problem with Fuller has always been the fact that in interviews he always says what I want to hear but the end product isn't that great.

Actually, I was refering to the March 2009 issue of "Star Trek Magazine" wherein he described his ideas for both "Endgame" and "Year of Hell."

Apparently, he was either not being entirely honest in 2001 or he wasn't being entirely honest in 2009, but, either way, what we got was a crappy "Endgame." As for Fuller not delivering, was it actually Fuller, or was it the decisions of the producers?

 

[Orac Zen]

One bad episode does not a bad writer make.

Yes, I do realise that. I was being facetious (and note my praise for a lot of Fuller's other work). Doesn't alter my view that "Spirit Folk" was a horrible episode.

Did you know Fuller originally wanted to extend "Year of Hell" to include an entire season with NO reset button?

That was Braga, not Fuller, and the UPN people vetoed it, not the "producers".

 

[Praetor]

^I remember that Fuller interview.

Regarding Kes, I'll say it again: Kes was VGR's version of Jean Grey/Phoenix from X-Men. They were aiming for that, but kinda missed.

I don't see much, if any resemblance between those characters.

They may have stolen some ideas when they did "Fury" but their one and only purpose with "Fury" was not to create some "super-character" but to ruin, humiliate, destroy and finally kill off the character.

Jean Grey was an ordinarily meek, intelligent, and sensitive woman who was overwhelmed by her psychic abilities and temporarily became evil.

You really don't see any resemblance?

I'm not talking from "Caretaker," I'm talking in particular "Cold Fire" and "Scorpion," and yes, ultimately, as horrifying as it was, "Fury." It may have been coincidental, but it's still there.

I also hate "Spirit Folk."

 

[exodus]

^I remember that Fuller interview.

Regarding Kes, I'll say it again: Kes was VGR's version of Jean Grey/Phoenix from X-Men. They were aiming for that, but kinda missed.

I don't see much, if any resemblance between those characters.

They may have stolen some ideas when they did "Fury" but their one and only purpose with "Fury" was not to create some "super-character" but to ruin, humiliate, destroy and finally kill off the character.

Jean Grey was an ordinarily meek, intelligent, and sensitive woman who was overwhelmed by her psychic abilities and temporarily became evil.

You really don't see any resemblance?

I'm not talking from "Caretaker," I'm talking in particular "Cold Fire" and "Scorpion," and yes, ultimately, as horrifying as it was, "Fury." It may have been coincidental, but it's still there.

I also hate "Spirit Folk."

Maybe he's never read the "Dark Phoenix Saga"?

 

[Tachyon]

I think many Trek goes out of it's way sometimes to show "bad guys" have a human compassion for things outside of their cause. However, Jetrel did as he was told during a time of war. How do we know that dening his government wouldn't black list him as a traitor? The fact that he had guilt over what he created showed that even bad guys have compassion. Let not forget during war it was America that dropped a bomb on the Japanese. Too many innocent Japanese people, we are the face of Jetrel.

Good post, exodus. It wasn't so "black or white" with Jetrel.

For me Jetrel is faaaar from the worst VOY episodes.

 

[exodus]

I think many Trek goes out of it's way sometimes to show "bad guys" have a human compassion for things outside of their cause. However, Jetrel did as he was told during a time of war. How do we know that dening his government wouldn't black list him as a traitor? The fact that he had guilt over what he created showed that even bad guys have compassion. Let not forget during war it was America that dropped a bomb on the Japanese. Too many innocent Japanese people, we are the face of Jetrel.

Good post, exodus. It wasn't so "black or white" with Jetrel.

For me Jetrel is faaaar from the worst VOY episodes.

I mean, too each his own but I agree.

*cough*Displaced*cough*
If that crap wasn't the biggest filler episode, then I don't know what is.
The ship is captured again and they beat them with cold................seriously? What type of Sid and Marty Kroft jacked up H.R. Puffinstuff ending was that!?!

 

[Praetor]

Forgot to respond to this:

"The Fight" is worse than "Threshold." "Favorite Son" might be, too.

Threshold is the worst. The Fight would be my number 2. Vis a vis would be 3.


One episode that is really good that is never talked about is Jetrel from Season 1. That episode would make my top 10 for sure.

I like "Jetrel." But I forgot about "Vis a Vis." I think my flat out worst five might be:

1) The Fight
2) Threshold
3) Unforgettable
4) Vis a Vis
5) Gravity

("Favorite Son" would be the sixth, I think. But I can't help but feel I'm leaving something out.)

 

[Square]

One bad episode does not a bad writer make.

Yes, I do realise that. I was being facetious (and note my praise for a lot of Fuller's other work). Doesn't alter my view that "Spirit Folk" was a horrible episode.

No argument there. My interpretation of "Spirit Folk:" Janeway must resort to using a highly sophisticated photonic dildo.

That was Braga, not Fuller, and the UPN people vetoed it, not the "producers".

According to the March 2009 issue of "Star Trek Magazine," Fuller got the ax from the producers. Somebody's fibbing somewhere.

 

[Da'an]

I liked Gravity but only because it had Lori Petty in it.

The first time I watched it on TV I knew it was her because I recognised her voice instantly, even though she looked completely different to the way she did in Tank Girl.

I squee'd.

 

[exodus]

One bad episode does not a bad writer make.

Yes, I do realise that. I was being facetious (and note my praise for a lot of Fuller's other work). Doesn't alter my view that "Spirit Folk" was a horrible episode.

No argument there. My interpretation of "Spirit Folk:" Janeway must resort to using a highly sophisticated photonic dildo.

That was "Fair Haven".

"Spirit Folk" is the one where the towns people think the Voyager crew are fairie folk.

Same setting, just different stories.
Easy mistake.

 

[Akiraprise]

Endgame

Boo. Hiss.

 

[Gepard]

They may have stolen some ideas when they did "Fury" but their one and only purpose with "Fury" was not to create some "super-character" but to ruin, humiliate, destroy and finally kill off the character.

I've seen you say this a lot, and I'm curious where you're getting it from. Is there any evidence--interviews, behind-the-scenes information or anything else--that shows this was the writers' motives?

 

[Lynx]

^^
The episode itself is evidence.

Just watch it and se how a lovely, caring, friendly character who loved to be on Voyager and loved her crewmates suddenly is turned ito some disgusting monster and finally into a pathetic wreck.

That's what I call character destruction.

Not to mention that the original plan was to kill off the character at the end.

 

[kimc]

Endgame

Boo. Hiss.

The only show ever where when the end credits rolled I said "What the f*** was THAT!

 

[LitmusDragon]

I definitely think Threshold is the worst. For second worst, I can't help but feel I'm forgetting something but I'll say "Tattoo". I found it vaguely annoying when they would make implausible connections between the alpha quadrant and the deltra quadrant. This was the worst offender in my opinion (yes, even over the dinosaurs and the Klingons).

edit:
I just remembered- no offence to John Rhys-Davies, but that episode where the Leonardo hologram escaped the holodeck somehow and interacted with an alien society was pretty terrible.

 

[KimMH]

I think I like Threshold. I've watched it a few times and after the very first viewing where the hubs and I sat on the couch and said "huh?" we did abuse it as utter rubbish and go on with our lives. Subsequent viewings however have endeared it to me; as much because it is silly camp that feels a little TOS-ish as the entire unlikeliness of the entire scenario - bad science and all. Or maybe mostly because of the bad science. not sure yet. But I do like it and find some its charm is that it's such a big silly target to laugh with.

 

[kes7]

THE DINOSAUR ONE! Crap, I had forgotten all about that. That one might actually have been worse than Threshold. No, wait, Tom Paris pulled out his tongue. Lizard babies. No, Threshold was still worse. But the Dinosaur one was a Very. Close. Second.

 

[teya]

It's a three-way tie...

"Coda": yes, we know the crew loves Janeway, why must we be beaten over the head with it? A complete waste of a wonderful guest star. :gag:

"Tattoo": Random forehead aliens escape detection in the Central American rain forest until the 24th century. And I find out I'm not really human.

"Resolutions": The Angry Warrior speech was the final nail in Chakotay's testicles' coffin. From this point on, Janeway kept 'em in a lockbox in her ready room.

 

[Praetorian]

THE DINOSAUR ONE! Crap, I had forgotten all about that. That one might actually have been worse than Threshold. No, wait, Tom Paris pulled out his tongue. Lizard babies. No, Threshold was still worse. But the Dinosaur one was a Very. Close. Second.

Ah, c'mon! Distan Origin is one of the best Voyager Episodes. Yes the Dinosaur part is a bit silly but the episode itself, besides being quite fresh by telling the story mostly from the point of view of the Voth scientists and with great make up/visual effects/direction/acting/continuity, is a very interesting and compelling analogy in the great tradition of Star Trek...

I know, different strokes for different folks..but still to even compare this with Threshold...

Anyway I would nominate... Tattoo...for being *extremely* offensive...