Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

[kimc]

I refuse to wear "tents" just because I am a female with relatively full chest.

Another "bazoomba sister" - yeah!

I tend to wear form-fitting "urban workout" clothing myself. However, what I wear in to the office varies from what I'll wear on a date or hanging around the house. I'm sure it does for you too.

Heck, I'll even confess to wearing my pilates pants into the office on the days when I have a workout right after work and I'm not seeing anyone from the business side. (I'm a software developer). The difference is though while I'm at work I'm not standing on a platform while some guy with a camera is takings shots of my crotch. I think Ryan is a good actress but in some of those Astrometrics scenes I was almost embarrassed for her. She's doing some good acting here - take the camera away from the crotch!

Wow. The parsing around here is something else. Let's look at AuntKate's diction and beat her over the head with it.

** starts handing out pillows **

AuntKate: Just because I normally agree with you doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good pillow fight.

 

[kimc]

Yes, and as you said you start out by dating. You don't dive into a serious relationship right off the bat.

Not everyone starts out with a lot of dating.

I dated guy1 one date--he offered to "help" me with my "virginity problem". Guy2 for two dates--very nice guy but not right for me.

All this time (a few months), I was "attracted" to Guy3. Was that a crush? Was it love? I don't know--I hadn't had much experience. It felt like love--whatever I thought that felt like at the time. We finally went out.

We've been together 22 yrs.

Again, the differense is you had years of childhood and adolesence to learn the basics of social interaction. Seven did not have that advantage. She still had some growing to do to get to the point most of us reach by our late teens.

 

[AuntKate]

Wow. The parsing around here is something else. Let's look at AuntKate's diction and beat her over the head with it.

** starts handing out pillows **

AuntKate: Just because I normally agree with you doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good pillow fight.

Please don't tell, but so do I!

 

[kimc]

Wow. The parsing around here is something else. Let's look at AuntKate's diction and beat her over the head with it.

** starts handing out pillows **

AuntKate: Just because I normally agree with you doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good pillow fight.

Please don't tell, but so do I!

Would that be you agreeing with me? I'm flattered.

Don't worry, your secret's safe with me!

 

[andersonh1]

The claim has been made that Seven is ready for a serious relationship in Endgame and that she has an "equal" relationship with her boy friend. My point is that she isn't all that mature. She's still not behaving the way a mature crew member would (reporting the admiral's attempt to manipulate her to the captain). Thanks, Exodus, for pointing out the other times she has behaved this way in the past. She really hasn't progressed much, has she? My other point is that she's not treating Chakotay as an equal (failing to discuss her fears with him before making a unilateral decision). She doesn't say she thinks they should break up--it's a done deal.

SEVEN: I'd prefer it if you didn't speak to me as though we're on intimate terms.
CHAKOTAY: We are on intimate terms.
SEVEN: Not anymore.
CHAKOTAY: What the hell is going on?
SEVEN: I've decided to alter the parameters of our relationship.

In fact, I think she is very much out of character when in the "dating mode." IMNSHO, I don't have to attempt to make the relationship look adolescent when it already is.

In many ways, it's probably appropriate to look at Seven as if she's a teenager who's just starting to date at this point. I don't say that to demean her, but rather to illustrate her level of experience with enfatuation and romantic relationships. She simply doesn't know how to handle them, having had very little experience in that area. Her emotions are somewhat volatile and she's more inclined to run away from a hurdle in the relationship than work through it.

Considering where she's come from, it's not an unrealistic bit of characterization. It does mean that she's not really on an equal level with Chakotay, but he strikes me as enough of a gentleman to treat her with the level of consideration she deserves.

 

[Tachyon]

My only problem with the cat suit is that i am angered that they are trying to manipulate me, and saddened that they think that this is the level of complexity they need to express and connive to manipulate me.

I'm insulted.

Aww. I feel you Guy, I really do. I am aware that the catsuit was directed to certain kind of audience, but I like to think that you wasn't one of them (= you were intelligent enough to see beyond that).

Seven rocks. I really do like her. Not with Chakotay, though.

I refuse to wear "tents" just because I am a female with relatively full chest.

Another "bazoomba sister" - yeah!

I tend to wear form-fitting "urban workout" clothing myself. However, what I wear in to the office varies from what I'll wear on a date or hanging around the house. I'm sure it does for you too.

It does, actually.At work I might wear a Minnie Mouse T-Shirt, which might complement my figure, but does not really sent a message of "take me now" message, in a way. LOL. Of course I consider where I am going and clothe myself according to that.


Sometimes I just feel that Seven gets too much slack because of her catsuit. I don't even pay attention to it. If some teenager boy does, why should I care? Seven is a great character in the end of the day and I think it was right decision to add her as a part of the Voyager crew. What she wore is irrelevant to me.

 

[Unimatrix 01]

Chakotay and Janeway... That's all I have to say.

 

[Tachyon]

Chakotay and Janeway... That's all I have to say.

And they lived happily ever after...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Is that a crossover with Carnivale I never saw?

 

[Unimatrix 01]

Chakotay and Janeway... That's all I have to say.

And they lived happily ever after...

Love it! Nice photoshoping!

 

[Unimatrix 01]

Is that a crossover with Carnivale I never saw?

Carnivale??

 

[Lynx]

Chakotay and Janeway... That's all I have to say.

And they lived happily ever after...

Great picture! Really nice and impressive photoshopping.

Now why do my own Photoshopped pictures never come up to that standard?

I like the scenario with the tents or whatever it is in the background. If I ever should come up with some "marriage scenario" for those two in some story, I would use the scenario on this picture for the story.

 

[Tachyon]

Aww. Thanks Unimatrix and Lynx!

I am not the biggest wedding pic fan myself, but a wedding pic(s) was requested from me and some others last month on another board. First I was like "naaah; I ain't gonna do it", but once I found the original pic I used in this one, I decided to give it a try. I liked the idea of Kathryn dressing up to Chakotay's tradition and vice versa.

 

[Unimatrix 01]

Aww. Thanks Unimatrix and Lynx!

I am not the biggest wedding pic fan myself, but a wedding pic(s) was requested from me and some others last month on another board. First I was like "naaah; I ain't gonna do it", but once I found the original pic I used in this one, I decided to give it a try. I liked the idea of Kathryn dressing up to Chakotay's tradition and vice versa.

Would you mind if I compressed it to use it as an avatar on here? I was very for the Chakotay/Janeway pair... but the show had different ideas.

It's amazing the amount of J/C fan fic is out there!

 

[Tachyon]

I wouldn't mind it at all. So go right ahead.

 

[exodus]

The claim has been made that Seven is ready for a serious relationship in Endgame and that she has an "equal" relationship with her boy friend. My point is that she isn't all that mature. She's still not behaving the way a mature crew member would (reporting the admiral's attempt to manipulate her to the captain). Thanks, Exodus, for pointing out the other times she has behaved this way in the past. She really hasn't progressed much, has she? My other point is that she's not treating Chakotay as an equal (failing to discuss her fears with him before making a unilateral decision). She doesn't say she thinks they should break up--it's a done deal.

It isn't about progression, it's about having a personality pattern. Everybody in life has one, that includes you, me and everyone we know as well as every single character you've ever seen on Star Trek and many other shows as well. It's what people rant about here when they say "being true to character". The biggest complaint about Voyager is lack of continuinty, well here it is.

The ironic part is, we're all here debating a relationship on Star Trek.
Who are any of us to judge someone else on what's mature?
I'm just surprised that nobody has once considered the Seven spent her whole life hurting people as a Borg, maybe just maybe being mature is taking precautions to not willingly hurt anybody again if you can posably help it. I think she has enough regret to live with.

 

[kimc]

Is that a crossover with Carnivale I never saw?

Carnivale??

A show by Ron Moore that only lasted a couple of seasons.

 

[teya]

Just because cat suits are a part of "Science Fiction" forever, still doesn't make it right. As Teya, has been so quick to point out when a generalization is used that doesn't fit her particular view point, not all women are alike and there are very few of us that would be comfortable let alone look ok in one.

Actually I tend to point out generalizations even when I agree with them. I just get irritated when one group tries to claim that theirs is the one, true and only viewpoint.

That's an interesting perspective, though. I've never thought of costumes as something that I relate to, as in "could I wear that?" I tend to look at them and wonder, "how did they make that?"

 

[teya]

I live and work in academia where the "I, me, my" of writing is frowned upon and what a person writes is assumed to be his/her opinion and reality. I had no idea that using the word "reality" would in some way mean that no one else could think differently (I didn't imagine I had that much power). Forgive me. Where I say "reality," please put "my" in front of it.

Granted, it's been decades since I took a lit class, but IIRC, there's a difference between presenting an opinion and saying, "the reality is" or "the truth is." The latter two are not declaring an opinion, they are declaring *fact*. And no matter how much you might wish it to be true, your opinion is not fact just because you say it is.

And, for good measure, since Seven never called him boyfriend, whenever I say boyfriend, add a space--boy friend. Better?

Not even necessary.

When your friends jumped on that as further proof that Seven and/or C/7ers (me) were being adolescent, I simply pointed out that *you* were the one throwing that out there--not me, not the character.

However, I do wish that they had taken her out of the provocative clothing. It might be a "tradition" in scifi (and Trek), but I think its time has passed, and good riddance.

I really suggest you not go see the new film. Between the catsuits on the Kelvin and the miniskirts on the Enterprise...

 

[Guy Gardener]

And, for good measure, since Seven never called him boyfriend, whenever I say boyfriend, add a space--boy friend. Better?

Not even necessary.

Well, he's a man not boy, and a lover not a friend, so in all honesty, Chakotay is her manlover.

(Maybe she just likes to watch?)