Ships Should Be Indestructable

[SicOne]

Why don't they just build Trek starships out of the same stuff they make the indestructable little black boxes on airplanes with?

Because the indestructible black boxes might be able to survive a crash or a fire but they certainly arn't designed to withstand particle weapons fire and matter/anti-matter explosions.

I'm just sayin'...

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Why don't they just build Trek starships out of the same stuff they make the indestructable little black boxes on airplanes with?

Because the indestructible black boxes might be able to survive a crash or a fire but they certainly arn't designed to withstand particle weapons fire and matter/anti-matter explosions.

I'm just sayin'...

Ok then.

 

[Kaziarl]

I think its funny they're called the black box. Before the crash they are actually red.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

It doesn't matter how advanced a technology is, there's always a way around it.

And, as always, there's a time factor as well: Even while instantly replacing damaged components by replication, you need some actual time to replicate it. Overflow that buffer and a ship is back to being destructible.

There's also the energy cost: Energy isn't limitless; even in the Star Trek universe. Either your crystals burn out, your antimatter reserves empty or something else happens that depletes your energy. Make your energy stores hugely oversized, and the Federation's territories will soon become barren wastelands. Bye bye Federation.

There's also the computerized side to consider: A software program is only as secure as it's operator. Since a ship is manned by physical lifeforms prone to make mistakes, don't think a ship is secure. Just slip in a virus and kaboom. Get on board under false pretenses: kaboom. Goad the pilot into making a mistake and let the damn ship fly itself apart on an asteroid: kaboom.

So, in essence, a ship can never be indestructable.

 

[seekertwo]

Maybe they should make the ships out of Captain Robau....

 

[USS KG5]

Can a replicator replicate a replicator? I almost think it can't, since replicators are shown to be somewhat poor at detail (this is the only way I can think that food would taste differently, not getting the microscopic stuff right--messing up on the cell membranes and changing the texture).

Actually I think it makes more sense to put that down to psychology. Food is relatively easy to replicate one would assume next to something like a hand phaser, and they can replicate those and they work a charm.

 

[Vanyel]

Power. It all comes down to power. Having 2 or 3 or even 4 warp cores on a ship could power the replicators, but they would be better used to provide extra power to the shields, thereby preventing hull damage in the first place. They could power the Inertial dampeners, add extra powers to the phasers, add warp power to help in an escape, or jump in to take over for a damaged warp core. I would think that those would make better use of the additional warp cores than to power replicators.

As for the ships hull in Lego block type pattern and replicating hull parts and beaming them into place assumes the blacks are all blown out as whole pieces. If they are not, the damaged area would have to have the irregular pieces beamed out and then replaced, causing additional power consumption.

 

[Da'an]

Maybe you could cite the specific episode and line that established that, then, if its so obvious and memorable.

In the Enterprise episode, Regeneration, Phlox says that the nanoprobes are replicating faster than he can remove them from his body.

"If I missed even one..."

 

[USS KG5]

Power. It all comes down to power. Having 2 or 3 or even 4 warp cores on a ship could power the replicators, but they would be better used to provide extra power to the shields, thereby preventing hull damage in the first place.

Additionally they probably use replicators and transporters to repair the ships - in fact it is the only way the relatively easy repair process we seem to see in Voyager makes any sense. The only time we see it take critical damage is "Year Of Hell" and that takes a continuous pounding for weeks.

The ships in all honesty should usually be able to run away if they get in a fight they cant win, they really only get suckered when fighting an unknown and make a mistake or get taken out in one hit - then replicators would not help much.

 

[SoM]

Power. It all comes down to power. Having 2 or 3 or even 4 warp cores on a ship could power the replicators, but they would be better used to provide extra power to the shields, thereby preventing hull damage in the first place. They could power the Inertial dampeners, add extra powers to the phasers, add warp power to help in an escape, or jump in to take over for a damaged warp core. I would think that those would make better use of the additional warp cores than to power replicators.

Plus, you need more fuel (antideuterium) to POWER the extra warp cores in the first place - and overpowering a ship causes structural strains AND lights you up like a beacon to every hostile ship in the sector (both of which caused problems for Sisko's Defiant - they had to nerf the top speed to prevent the ship shaking itself to bits, and their engine signature could be seen even when cloaked)

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Can a replicator replicate a replicator? I almost think it can't, since replicators are shown to be somewhat poor at detail (this is the only way I can think that food would taste differently, not getting the microscopic stuff right--messing up on the cell membranes and changing the texture).

Actually I think it makes more sense to put that down to psychology. Food is relatively easy to replicate one would assume next to something like a hand phaser, and they can replicate those and they work a charm.

I don't think they CAN replicate hand phasers. I think they can replicate the PARTS for a hand phaser, though.

 

[Da'an]

Replicators: The ultimate IKEA store.

 

[USS KG5]

Can a replicator replicate a replicator? I almost think it can't, since replicators are shown to be somewhat poor at detail (this is the only way I can think that food would taste differently, not getting the microscopic stuff right--messing up on the cell membranes and changing the texture).

Actually I think it makes more sense to put that down to psychology. Food is relatively easy to replicate one would assume next to something like a hand phaser, and they can replicate those and they work a charm.

I don't think they CAN replicate hand phasers. I think they can replicate the PARTS for a hand phaser, though.

Naah there is at least one episode of TNG where they replicate phasers I'm sure. Besides it is the individual parts which are complicated - the assembly would be very simple, just replicate the parts in a precise position.

Plus in DS9 they start replicating whole "system modules" - presumably relatively complex bits again.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Actually I think it makes more sense to put that down to psychology. Food is relatively easy to replicate one would assume next to something like a hand phaser, and they can replicate those and they work a charm.

I don't think they CAN replicate hand phasers. I think they can replicate the PARTS for a hand phaser, though.

Naah there is at least one episode of TNG where they replicate phasers I'm sure.

Nope. The only reference is "Samaritan Snare" where the Pakleds mention that they have replicators and "can make more" phasers. I doubt they're describing the wholesale replication of phasers, or else they wouldn't need Geordi.

Besides it is the individual parts which are complicated - the assembly would be very simple, just replicate the parts in a precise position.

I don't know that replicators ARE that precise; frankly, I kind of doubt it. Almost every task in Trek that requires microscopic precision is invariably done by hand using some kind of specialized tools.

Plus in DS9 they start replicating whole "system modules" - presumably relatively complex bits again.

Again, not exactly wholesale. The only example of THAT seems to be "self replicating mines", which are puzzling on SO MANY levels.

 

[USS KG5]

Again, not exactly wholesale. The only example of THAT seems to be "self replicating mines", which are puzzling on SO MANY levels.

Well you make my point for me with these - they of course replicate themselves quite precisely, from what is the odd bit.

Of course your mileage can vary, we never find out anything exact about the capabilities of replicators.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Well, the oddest bit about self-replicating mines is their ability to replicate ANYTHING with only their limited energy stores and still remain cloaked and armed. Just saying, they seemed a bit more like borrowed 25th century tech to me.

 

[sojourner]

Yea, those mines were terribad. The ultimate example of a perpetual motion machine. Not only could it create more energy than it used, it could create copies of itself that also created more than they used.

Imagine if there had been a programming mistake and they had just gone on creating more units! The field would have grown exponentially and eventually filled the universe.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Well, the oddest bit about self-replicating mines is their ability to replicate ANYTHING with only their limited energy stores and still remain cloaked and armed. Just saying, they seemed a bit more like borrowed 25th century tech to me.

The thing is, the writers missed a terrific idea there, too...

Suppose that the "self-replicating mines" weren't self-powered at all, and didn't carry any "mass reservoirs"... but instead were somehow powered by the wormhole (and got their mass from efflux out of the wormhole as well)?

This would be a bit better explanation... and also avoids the whole pesky "malfunctioning self-replicating mine creates a never-ending 'bacterial colony' of mines which destroys the universe" issue.

Tie 'em to the wormhole, both figuratively and literally.

Maybe they have "verteron pulse collectors" for power, so every time the wormhole opens, dumping energy and mass, they "reproduce?"

I could have accepted that (albeit, granted, it's still "magic"... at least it's LOGICAL magic!) more easily than the poorly-thought-through idea we got.

 

[Anwar]

As for why the Borg do the surgical enhancements on freshly assimilated victims, I'd assume that it's faster to put the newly built parts onto the person rather than just wait for the nanoprobes to make all the enhancements themselves. They'd need energy and raw materials to do that, meaning likely they wouldn't be making the Borg parts within and on the outside of the host so much as they'd be altering the hosts own body into Borg parts. You can't make something from nothing. The surgery leaves the host with 100% of their body and is faster.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

This would be a bit better explanation... and also avoids the whole pesky "malfunctioning self-replicating mine creates a never-ending 'bacterial colony' of mines which destroys the universe" issue.

WHERE WAS THIS EPISODE!

They should have made an episode about this. A ship comes across a self replicating mine fields that's spread across entire lightyears of space!!