Sequel/Transformers 2: we're in trouble

[Qonos]

I don't believe the RT scores for the first TF movie started out that great either. It ended at 51 percent fresh... Of course it is a movie based on Kids Toys.

 

[Franklin]

Very harsh review of T2 by John Anderson in The Washington Post. And, he reminds readers that he liked the first Transformers movie. Here's the first paragraph of his review (note the part I put in bold face and italics):

With its fascist sensibility, assortment of smutty asides, illiterate gold-tooth-wearing homie robots and the hero's brainless mother, much of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen is simply despicable. So complaining about one's physical discomfort seems petty. But given the relentless din, the Leni Riefenstahl-inspired music and the headache-inducing visuals, OSHA should probably be investigating the conditions under which human beings made this thing. Or the conditions under which they watch it.

Still, if we damn Orci and Kurtzman over this, do we damn Steven Spielberg for putting his name on it? No one bats 1.000. And, the movie must appeal to some audience, because if it even draws "only" what ST09 did, that will be considered a disappointing take for this movie. It will likely outgross ST09 by quite a bit. So, the irony is that in their worst work, Orci and Kurtzman have a movie that will make more money than their best work did.

 

[Cakes488]

That said, I blame Bay - not Orci and Kurtzman.

After reading this, I think you should.

"The testicles are in the script," Kurtzman said. "Well, it's a construction machine, so you of course have wrecking balls."
...
...
...

Orci and Kurtzman didn´t come up with the idea. Their co-writer did. Sorry, O and K are still two of the best writers out there.

If this is true that "O and K" are two of the "best" writers out there than it's a sad state of affairs indeed.

That said, I blame Bay - not Orci and Kurtzman.

After reading this, I think you should.

"The testicles are in the script," Kurtzman said. "Well, it's a construction machine, so you of course have wrecking balls."

Meh -- A robot with testicles doesn't necessarily make for a bad script. It may be a tasteless idea, but it doesn't mean that the plot or dialog is necessarily going to be poorly crafted. It may be a symptom of a bigger problem, but the robotic testicles themselves aren't a sign of poor writing (although I do hear it's a bad film).


If their bank books can take it, I think Kurtzman and Orci would be better off never working with Michael Bay again.

LOL a robot with testicles??? A construction machine so it's logical? Is this serious? Did I just read that???

I read that waffle review and I took a look at the others this Waffle reviewed....it's insulting how many shitty movies Crapwood tries to shove down our throats. Can we stop buying what they're selling people and maybe they'll get the hint???

 

[Jeri]

Even if we never bought another ticket, a lot of those movies make huge box office worldwide. Our influence would seem to be limited in this case.

 

[trampledamage]

After reading this, I think you should.

"The testicles are in the script," Kurtzman said. "Well, it's a construction machine, so you of course have wrecking balls."
...
...
...

Orci and Kurtzman didn´t come up with the idea. Their co-writer did. Sorry, O and K are still two of the best writers out there.

If this is true that "O and K" are two of the "best" writers out there than it's a sad state of affairs indeed.

After reading this, I think you should.

"The testicles are in the script," Kurtzman said. "Well, it's a construction machine, so you of course have wrecking balls."

Meh -- A robot with testicles doesn't necessarily make for a bad script. It may be a tasteless idea, but it doesn't mean that the plot or dialog is necessarily going to be poorly crafted. It may be a symptom of a bigger problem, but the robotic testicles themselves aren't a sign of poor writing (although I do hear it's a bad film).


If their bank books can take it, I think Kurtzman and Orci would be better off never working with Michael Bay again.

LOL a robot with testicles??? A construction machine so it's logical? Is this serious? Did I just read that???

It's a pun - they didn't mean it's actually logical, it's just a joke on the phrase "wrecking balls"

 

[flemm]

26% Rotten Tomatoes rating.

Maybe it'll rake it in first week, and fade quickly.

But even at that, it'll beat Trek easily... not that I care, but maybe Trek has a chance to hang around longer once the initial onslaught is over, since people will view it again to get the taste of Tr2 out of their mouths.

I can hope, anyway.

My personal sentiments have evolved as follows:

Three weeks ago... "I watched the cartoon as a kid and thought the first movie was decent mindless entertainment, so I'm sure I'll end up seeing it."

Two days ago... "Sounds terrible, maybe I'll give it a miss after all."

Now... "Wow! This sounds so epicly bad and disastrous that I may have to go see it for myself to bear witness to the utter disembowelment of our culture."

So, anyway, yeah... It'll make it's money

 

[trampledamage]

Now... "Wow! This sounds so epicly bad and disastrous that I may have to go see it for myself to bear witness to the utter disembowelment of our culture."

So, anyway, yeah... It'll make it's money

It's an interesting marketing tactic... it might just work!

 

[Franklin]

Now... "Wow! This sounds so epicly bad and disastrous that I may have to go see it for myself to bear witness to the utter disembowelment of our culture."

So, anyway, yeah... It'll make it's money

It's an interesting marketing tactic... it might just work!

You get Crow. I'll find Tom Servo.

 

[urbandk]

I didn't see the first Transformers; I don't plan on seeing this one either. I'm not fourteen.

 

[Franklin]

I didn't see the first Transformers; I don't plan on seeing this one either. I'm not fourteen.

There are 122 reviews on RT right now, and only 20% are fresh. I don't think I'd go even if I were 14.

 

[indranee]

oh but you would; if you weren't you, that is.

 

[urbandk]

I didn't see the first Transformers; I don't plan on seeing this one either. I'm not fourteen.

There are 122 reviews on RT right now, and only 20% are fresh. I don't think I'd go even if I were 14.

My tolerance for shitty movies with hot babes and lots of action was higher at that age.

 

[Peter the Younger]

That said, I blame Bay - not Orci and Kurtzman.

After reading this, I think you should.

"The testicles are in the script," Kurtzman said. "Well, it's a construction machine, so you of course have wrecking balls."
...
...
...

It sounds like they are sort of embarrassed by it - I wouldn't be surprised if the worst stuff gets pinned on Kruger.

Still it amazes me how Hollywood minds work. "Okay, this one is Star Trek, so we have to have humor arising from situations and depict a world without racism or sexism, but over here in this other movie, they don't say anything about that, so we can have shuck and jive robots and giant balls and leer at the porn star girlfriend."

 

[Aike]

There´s no need to worry. I saw Transformers 2 today and the movie is very good. Everyone who liked the first one will be pleased. Lots of humor, great action and Megan Fox. Basically every complaint I have read about the movie was dead wrong. Sure, it isn´t flawless, but it is still a masterpiece compared to the awful cartoon.

And there was even a cool Trek reference in it

 

[Dusty Ayres]

What I don't understand is how one could day the t1 was any good...

I saw it as part of free in-flight entertainment when it was released and it was a pile of [edit] rubbish [/edit].

And this is coming from some-one who at the time thought the cheapo Japanese early morning transformer Toons were half-way decent.

Transformers may make money, but its not because its a decent film by any of the usual markers.

First of all being a Transformers fan for almost as long as I've been a Trekkie, let me learn you some Transformers now....

1) Transformers was NOT a Japanese show. It was Produced by the North American production company Sunbow, who gave us GI Joe, Jem, The Inhumanoids, Big Foot. The show was based around toys brought over from japan. These toys were from the Micro Man and Diaclone and a story was built around them about A planet named Cybertron that was dying due to a war between two factions the Autonoums Robots (Autobots) and an offshoot faction called the Deceptcions, both factions were led by Leaders named Optimus Prime and Megatron. When the two ships (the Ark and Nemesis) Battled above Prehistoric Earth they crashed, one in the Laurenthian trench (ooh where did that come from) and one into Mt. Saint Hilary (A Volcano in what would become Oregon) 4 million years later the dormant Volcano erupts and reawakens the Decepticons and Autobots. Their war renewed, the battle for the planet's vast resources begins and the Autobots end up befriending a young teen named Spike Whitwhicky and his dad "Sparkplug" who are working on an oil rig attacked by the decepticons.... (All the locations were in America which would be unheard of for a Japanese cartoon back in the 80's.)

2)The 2007 movie was one of the biggest money making movies of that year... Written by the guys who made one of the biggest money making movies of this year. (These are not opinions, these are facts)

3) The main plotline in TF1 was actually deeper than the one from ST09. The Transformers come to earth looking for a Cybertronian artifact that is resposible for creating the Cybertronians. There are two factions, the Autonuoms Robots (Autobots) and the Decepticons. The Factions are lead by Optimus Prime and Megatron respectively. A teen age kid (And there's always a teen age kid{Unless it's Beast Wars/Beast Machines }) has his grandfather's glasses which have the coordinates of the allspark etched into them. Our hero is chased by a bad guy (Named Barricade) who is trying to get the glasses from him, an Autobot (Bumblebee) who has positioned himself to be the boys protector. Sam (The kid) eventually meets the rest of the Autobots and sees through the course of the film that he's now in something deeper than his daily concerns (Get cool car, get girl he's interested in) he's forced to become a hero. There's alot of character development there he goes from this punk kid to a man.

4) The movie made 700 million dollars world wide. THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY TRANSFORMERS FANS... In fact there are LESS Transformers fans (Hardcore or otherwise) than there are STAR TREK FANS (yes there are more ST FANS, TF Fans get one major convention a year. ST Fans have a plethora of conventions and celebrations that they can go to during the year)

So the fact that the move made 700 million dollars means there had to be something there to hook people. Was it deep sci fi, no it wasn't, and Transformers has never been deep sci fi. In fact with the addition of the "Matrix of Leadership" and Unicron in the 1986 movie, and the addition of Primus in the AEC trilogy there is more than a little mysticism added to the mix. The movie though wasn't trash or rubbish especially if you paid attention. (Which I think is 90 percent of most people's problems in the hate camps for both films is they go in with such a dismissive attitude that they don't pay attention to the story and only pay attention to the flaws.)

... Where was I... Oh yeah. There had to be something that hooked people. There has to be something that has people wanting to see the next one (because there are) once again though you can't say what you like is better than what someone else like, because it's all subjective. I liked Transformers, for what it was, a movie about Transformers it had enough of what made the 80 cartoon, comics, and movie to make me enjoy it.

Same with ST09, it had enough of what made me like Star Trek for it to be a good Star Trek movie for me.

What can I say, but...Word!

 

[Jon1701]

There´s no need to worry. I saw Transformers 2 today and the movie is very good. Everyone who liked the first one will be pleased. Lots of humor, great action and Megan Fox. Basically every complaint I have read about the movie was dead wrong. Sure, it isn´t flawless, but it is still a masterpiece compared to the awful cartoon.

And there was even a cool Trek reference in it

It was way, way too long - and frankly, dull.

Honestly, I've never seen a theatre empy so quickly as the credits rolled. People flew out of there. In the first movie, the moment where the autobots landed on earth, I could literally feel the hairs on the back of my neck.

There was nothing like this in the movie.

Spoiler: something that happens in the movie

The death of Optimus Prime left me cold. Maybe I'm not 12 any more, but Transformers: The Movie packed far more emotion that on show here.

 

[Noname Given]

I've said it before and i'll say it again. A franchise cannot be built on explosions and shaky cameras.

You keep saying that, but it has no relevance to Star Trek. You have no standing whether by experience or any demonstrated insight from which to expound upon what can and cannot be done in this regard anyway.

I provided insight. Transformers 2. as usual you choose to ignore what you cannot counter.

Furthurmore, Trek was doing fine without the explosions and mindless action. TNG was the most successful of the Trek series. It was successful because it didn't rely on all that shit.

Then suddenly toward the late 90s some suit decided they wanted to turn Trek into mainstream entertainment. How do you do that? I know you dumb it down. Add explosions and fist fights. That's the ticket, maybe that will draw in the pro wrestling crowd.

The result was Nemesis: Flop!
Enterprise: Flop!

Star Trek 2009: Minor hit, but a novelty that has no legs.

Oh yeah - TNG was quality right from the start...oh, wait:

The very first episode after the pilot was a remake of The Naked Time from TOS...panned.

Then we got Code of Honor; which if broadcast today in a first run series would have gotten letters from the NAACP.

Cut to the second season where we get an episode with data wanting to emulate Joe Piscopo; a Hans Solo clone, being persued by a planetary magistrate who wants to either kill the guy or have a shotgun wedding on the spot as he brought his daughter with him.

Later we also get The Pakleds who "We look for things to make us go..."

Yep, TNG was always a bastion of 'qualiity'.

 

[Cakes488]

What I don't understand is how one could day the t1 was any good...

I saw it as part of free in-flight entertainment when it was released and it was a pile of [edit] rubbish [/edit].

And this is coming from some-one who at the time thought the cheapo Japanese early morning transformer Toons were half-way decent.

Transformers may make money, but its not because its a decent film by any of the usual markers.

First of all being a Transformers fan for almost as long as I've been a Trekkie, let me learn you some Transformers now....

1) Transformers was NOT a Japanese show. It was Produced by the North American production company Sunbow, who gave us GI Joe, Jem, The Inhumanoids, Big Foot. The show was based around toys brought over from japan. These toys were from the Micro Man and Diaclone and a story was built around them about A planet named Cybertron that was dying due to a war between two factions the Autonoums Robots (Autobots) and an offshoot faction called the Deceptcions, both factions were led by Leaders named Optimus Prime and Megatron. When the two ships (the Ark and Nemesis) Battled above Prehistoric Earth they crashed, one in the Laurenthian trench (ooh where did that come from) and one into Mt. Saint Hilary (A Volcano in what would become Oregon) 4 million years later the dormant Volcano erupts and reawakens the Decepticons and Autobots. Their war renewed, the battle for the planet's vast resources begins and the Autobots end up befriending a young teen named Spike Whitwhicky and his dad "Sparkplug" who are working on an oil rig attacked by the decepticons.... (All the locations were in America which would be unheard of for a Japanese cartoon back in the 80's.)

2)The 2007 movie was one of the biggest money making movies of that year... Written by the guys who made one of the biggest money making movies of this year. (These are not opinions, these are facts)

3) The main plotline in TF1 was actually deeper than the one from ST09. The Transformers come to earth looking for a Cybertronian artifact that is resposible for creating the Cybertronians. There are two factions, the Autonuoms Robots (Autobots) and the Decepticons. The Factions are lead by Optimus Prime and Megatron respectively. A teen age kid (And there's always a teen age kid{Unless it's Beast Wars/Beast Machines }) has his grandfather's glasses which have the coordinates of the allspark etched into them. Our hero is chased by a bad guy (Named Barricade) who is trying to get the glasses from him, an Autobot (Bumblebee) who has positioned himself to be the boys protector. Sam (The kid) eventually meets the rest of the Autobots and sees through the course of the film that he's now in something deeper than his daily concerns (Get cool car, get girl he's interested in) he's forced to become a hero. There's alot of character development there he goes from this punk kid to a man.

4) The movie made 700 million dollars world wide. THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY TRANSFORMERS FANS... In fact there are LESS Transformers fans (Hardcore or otherwise) than there are STAR TREK FANS (yes there are more ST FANS, TF Fans get one major convention a year. ST Fans have a plethora of conventions and celebrations that they can go to during the year)

So the fact that the move made 700 million dollars means there had to be something there to hook people. Was it deep sci fi, no it wasn't, and Transformers has never been deep sci fi. In fact with the addition of the "Matrix of Leadership" and Unicron in the 1986 movie, and the addition of Primus in the AEC trilogy there is more than a little mysticism added to the mix. The movie though wasn't trash or rubbish especially if you paid attention. (Which I think is 90 percent of most people's problems in the hate camps for both films is they go in with such a dismissive attitude that they don't pay attention to the story and only pay attention to the flaws.)

... Where was I... Oh yeah. There had to be something that hooked people. There has to be something that has people wanting to see the next one (because there are) once again though you can't say what you like is better than what someone else like, because it's all subjective. I liked Transformers, for what it was, a movie about Transformers it had enough of what made the 80 cartoon, comics, and movie to make me enjoy it.

Same with ST09, it had enough of what made me like Star Trek for it to be a good Star Trek movie for me.

What can I say, but...Word!

Look...to each his own...but the majority of people think this movie sucks...I'll go with that as this is not by idea of entertainment. In case you haven't noticed...it doesn't really take much to hook the American movie going public now does it? This movie makes Wolverine look like Shakespeare !!!
And that Shia guy...no he still looks like a punk kid to me.

 

[Cakes488]

Orci and Kurtzman didn´t come up with the idea. Their co-writer did. Sorry, O and K are still two of the best writers out there.

If this is true that "O and K" are two of the "best" writers out there than it's a sad state of affairs indeed.

Meh -- A robot with testicles doesn't necessarily make for a bad script. It may be a tasteless idea, but it doesn't mean that the plot or dialog is necessarily going to be poorly crafted. It may be a symptom of a bigger problem, but the robotic testicles themselves aren't a sign of poor writing (although I do hear it's a bad film).


If their bank books can take it, I think Kurtzman and Orci would be better off never working with Michael Bay again.

LOL a robot with testicles??? A construction machine so it's logical? Is this serious? Did I just read that???

It's a pun - they didn't mean it's actually logical, it's just a joke on the phrase "wrecking balls"

I understand all that..but it's frikkin stupid. Is this good ideas? Is this good writing? Thank god I have my netflix where I can choose weekly to watch QUALITY movies. Now I like "dumb" or B movies too...but this...this is just insulting what Crapwood puts out and yup yup we keep buying it.

 

[cooleddie74]

The first TRANSFORMERS movie was barely more than a two-hour-long toy commercial to pimp for Hasbro. The old 80s cartoon stood head and shoulders above it for pure enjoyment value. So if this one is a piece of shit I will *not* be surprised in the least.