A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[DalekJim]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Gravity was actually probably funnier than Rimmerworld but then it isn't difficult to be funnier than a Red Dwarf Series 7 episode .

I watched Gravity today on Virgin1 and thought it was a solid episode. Not as brilliant as the previous one but still a solid piece of TV.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Bride of Chaotica is one of the few episodes between "Timeless" and "Dark Frontier" that I thoroughly enjoyed from start to finish without any reservations or issues interrupting my enjoyment. It isn't a classic but it is a fun hour and probably the only one or one of two episodes by Fuller and Taylor I liked. I'd give it 3 stars out of 4.

Gravity's biggest sin was being boring. It isn't bad but just not the least bit interesting. I've never cared much for Tuvok and episodes like this certainly didn't help. I can never really muster the investment emotionally in a romance that is only going to last an hour especially when there is no chemistry. I think the only one I can is TNG's "Lessons" between Picard and Neela Darren. The jeopardy plot lacked any suspense or urgency. The antagonists were bland. The flashbacks weren't the least bit informative or interesting and to top it off I had learned of the big Dark Frontier telefilm coming up and needed something more enjoyable than Gravity to displace that anticipation. I'd give it 2 stars out of 4. C'mon "Dark Frontier"--the only beacon among a slump of mediocrity in season five.

 

[Bertie]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Gravity (**)

I don't know, Lori Petty is certainly one of the more unusual guest actors to show up on Trek, and I thought she was just fine in this role (acknowledging that that doesn't seem to be the majority opinion on this episode).

 

[Dane_Whitman]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I thought Lori Petty was cute and endearing as Noss, she made the most out of a thin character.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Bride of Chaotica! *
(I must be the only Janeway fan in this quadrant, who doesn't like Arachnia at all.)

Gravity ***½

 

[SharkD]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Seems that if you've watched all 7 series you're entitled to pass final judgement...

Maybe I'm supposed to watch each season twice...

Then it ends with the simple resolution of having Tuvok mind-meld with Nos and her leaving Voyager with a smile on her face.

The Vulcan reset switch!

 

[SharkD]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

double post

 

[Misco]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

...and flashbacks into Tuvok's childhood. The flashbacks themselves are okay, but they don't add enough to the story to justify taking time away from the romance plot.

Urgh, I disliked this episode upon first and second viewing and years later I still dislike it. Upon watching the teaser at the beginning I thought that we were going to get a real insight into Tuvok's past/childhood/whatever but it turns out upon episode's ending that the flashbacks are just pointless and boring wastes of time. The romance was also a non-event.

About the only good thing this episode has to offer is the lesser seen away team combination of Tom and Tuvok (with the Doctor) which worked quite well. Oh and the location/scenery was pretty too.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Gravity was actually probably funnier than Rimmerworld but then it isn't difficult to be funnier than a Red Dwarf Series 7 episode .

It was Red Dwarf VI. Epic fail!

 

[DalekJim]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

You're right, I dunno why I typed that.

I adore the first 2 series but then the show really lost it's way .

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I adore the first 2 series but then the show really lost it's way .

I would have thought you were mad for saying that three months ago but recently I attempted to rewatch RD and I stopped at the end of the third season. The first two seasons were better than I remembered, it was like the odd couple in space, but then I found that third season to be a let-down. I know that seasons 3-5 are considered the high-point of the show, but I have much more respect for seasons 1&2 now.


Bliss (*½)

I was on the coast road and then I turned left but I took the wrong road. I ended up in the town I was trying to get to but I reached it from a different angle, that's how I went left instead of right. Then I found myself on the main roadway that I thought I had already passed and there was no signs indicating which way was which, so I went right in an attempt to get back to the town again but instead I ended up in a different town from a different angle. It turns out I was heading north when I thought I was going south!!!

That's a story of a drive I took three weeks ago which went awry, and I bring it up because I found this episode of Voyager to be so boring I ended up trying to trace the journey of three weeks ago on my laptop rather than pay attention to the episode. Does anyone really believe Voyager is getting home? Does anyone really believe Voyager is going to remain trapped in the space monster? Did anyone care about what was happening on screen? Because I didn't.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Red Dwarf hasn't aged too well. You're both right that the first two seasons are probably the freshest, since they are based more on character and situation than sci-fi plots. For the first two years, it was a sitcom that just happened to be set in space. It's like Porridge, even with the same dynamic with the bunks. Series three onwards becomes a sci-fi parody, which just isn't quite as good. I loved it at the time though.

Bliss was okay. That's about it really. Speaking of Red Dwarf, it's a rip-off of Psirens.

 

[DalekJim]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Does anyone really believe Voyager is getting home? Does anyone really believe Voyager is going to remain trapped in the space monster?

Couldn't this apply to every episode of TOS though? You know everytime the ship or crew are in danger nobody's really gonna die but the journey is more interesting than the pay-off.

I watched thie episode today too and it was pretty average, Seven of Nine isn't a very interesting character so her centrics tend to be uninvolving for me.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

For the first two years, it was a sitcom that just happened to be set in space.

I don't know, there's still a lot of sci-fi going on in those first two seasons.
102 Future Echoes: They see time-displaced visions of themselves.
105 Confidence and Paranoia: A radiation leak causes anthropomorphic personifications of Lister's confidence and paranoia.
106 Me²: A second Rimmer hologram is activated.
202 Better than Life: They spend time in a VR game.
203 Thanks for the Memory: Lister gives Rimmer the memory of one of his girlfriends.
204 Stasis Leak: They go back in time.
206 Parallel Universe: They go to an alternate universe where they're women.

There was still a lot of sci-fi but the humour was more centred on the characters than it was in later series. Maybe 4 & 5 are better, I'll probably get back to watching them eventually.

Couldn't this apply to every episode of TOS though? You know everytime the ship or crew are in danger nobody's really gonna die but the journey is more interesting than the pay-off.

Which is why TOS relied upon having interesting characters and played upon the dynamic of the various characters. This episode could have been good if it had focused on the crew and their desire to get home rather than Seven's sceptical approach to things.

 

[Bertie]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

[Bliss (*½)

Trivia: The actor who played the alien in "Bliss" also played the head of the Vulcan Science Academy who insults Spock's human heritage in Star Trek XI (source). I like his work, so that's one point in favor of "Bliss".

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Bride of Chaotica: 3/4. Good dumb fun and a nice change of pace.

Gravity: 3/4 I love the location, in fact I liked it so much that I have it an extra point. Other than that, a solid but forgettable ep.

I have to weigh in on Red Dwarf. I'd go even further and say that for me season 1 is by far the best. Season 1 is just all about two characters talking. I feel like after that the series got progressively wacky to it's detriment. But I still enjoyed it quite a bit (up to the last season or two where it really went downhill hard).

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Latent Image (****)
The episode itself is actually very good, it's not just a great character episode for Shmully it also addresses some big issues about Shmully and his rights. I really enjoyed watching this episode for the most part, it was better than I remembered it and this time I didn't have a problem with how everybody is suddenly treating Shmully as not quite a person, I realise that they're using that as a justification for removing his memories 18 months before.

But as with season 3's The Swarm I'm annoyed by the ending. This is clearly an episodic show no matter how much I wish it was otherwise and you can't just end an episode like this with no resolution. If they followed up on this it would be great, but as far as I remember they wont.

Ya know, I really like "Latent Image." But part of me wonders if it might have had more resonance had it been a follow-up to Tuvix. Same thing, only Janeway had wiped D-Shmull's memory because he'd had a recursive loop whatsis because he didn't stop her from deintegrating Tuvix.

Or is that a can of worms best not opened?

Bride of Chaotica! (**½)
In the 98/99 season there was three episode of Star Trek I remembered downright loathing; Take Me Out to the Holosuite, Bada-Bing Bada-Bang and Bride of Chaotica! When I rewatched those two DS9 episodes on DVD some years back I was surprised by how enjoyable I managed to find them, I now think that Take Me Out... is one of the funniest episodes of Trek.

"Death to the opposition!" I can hear Worf say that (and of course "Find him and kill him!") in my head and it is literally making me laugh out loud even now, and I don't give a flying frog fuck about baseball.
(BTW, your name is Steve? I feel so... deceived. )

Bride of Chaotica! isn't quite at that level, but it was certainly a more enjoyable experience this time around.

The episode has its funny moments, the best of which is Tom trying to explain the situation to the senior staff, but it also drags on a bit at the end. And I was slightly off-put by having Janeway playing Arachnia. *dodges rotten fruit being hurled my way* The problem is that it was too obvious to me that it was Kate Mulgrew playing Arachnia and not Janeway and it took me out of the experience, in contrast the scene where Shmully plays the President of Earth is a better example of an actor playing an actor playing a role.

*dodges sharp objects*

Speaking of Shmully, he seems to be normal again in this episode thus justifying my major criticism of Latent Image. Now if you will please excuse me I have to flee for my life.

I see where you're coming from. I like "Chaotica" as a tune-out/tune-in experience. I can also see what you meant regarding Mulgrew chewing the scenery as Arachnia instead of as Janeway as Arachnia. (I got a flash of her in "Throw Momma From the Train" for some reason there.) I think DG said it well:

I think Bride of Choatica! suffers from a case of too much babble - they spend so much time setting up why the characters have to enter the world of the Captain Proton holoprogram that they forget that this should be a fun experience - get more than just Janeway, Harry, Tom, and the Doctor involved. Let the whole cast revel in the off-the-wall cheesiness of the experience.

For that matter, couldn't it have just been a 'slice of life' episode instead of a 'Voyager encounters an anomaly and the holodecks malfunction' episode, where all the crew is getting involved in the program, and we're slowly introduced to each character in character? It could have been a lot more fun than this if they'd really played with the format - maybe even done the episode almost entirely as an 'Adventure of Captain Proton' and end it with the senior staff ending the program, having a laugh.

Gravity (**)

Watch this video. Did anybody notice what was wrong there? That's correct, nobody put up a warning sign and that poor cyclist ended up cycling into a big pit of water. The aliens in this episode said that they knew of this subspace sinkhole for a year and they lost a number of ships to it. Do you see where I'm going with this?

This episode does too much too quickly and ends up not doing anything well. Tuvok and Nos are supposedly in love but they have so little chemistry together that I wouldn't have been able to tell if it it hadn't been for everybody saying so. Part of the problem is how little time is spent developing their relationship; they meet and then the story skips ahead to months later and suddenly they're in love.

Too much time was wasted on pointless story points such as Janeway and the mean aliens who are trying to close the sinkhole, Nos and the mean aliens who are attacking for godsonlyknowwhatreason, and flashbacks into Tuvok's childhood. The flashbacks themselves are okay, but they don't add enough to the story to justify taking time away from the romance plot. Then it ends with the simple resolution of having Tuvok mind-meld with Nos and her leaving Voyager with a smile on her face. It might have helped her out had he just don't that a month ago.

This is an episode with good intentions but it crams so much into 45 minutes that it crashes back to Earth at 9.81m/s².

Terrible math joke is terrible.

Shuttles Lost: 12

I thought the romance was just silly. I could see Noss falling for Tuvok and him being unwilling/unable to reciprocate, thus leading us to the flashbacks. I actually enjoyed the flashbacks much more than any of the rest of the episode. It again seemed to be a case of too much bun, not enough meat.

I thought Lori Petty was cute and endearing as Noss, she made the most out of a thin character.

I will concede that. Tank Girl!

Bride of Chaotica! *
(I must be the only Janeway fan in this quadrant, who doesn't like Arachnia at all.)

Artillery, redirect rotten vegetables at Tachyon. Prepare to fire at my command.

Bliss (*½)

I was on the coast road and then I turned left but I took the wrong road. I ended up in the town I was trying to get to but I reached it from a different angle, that's how I went left instead of right. Then I found myself on the main roadway that I thought I had already passed and there was no signs indicating which way was which, so I went right in an attempt to get back to the town again but instead I ended up in a different town from a different angle. It turns out I was heading north when I thought I was going south!!!

That's a story of a drive I took three weeks ago which went awry, and I bring it up because I found this episode of Voyager to be so boring I ended up trying to trace the journey of three weeks ago on my laptop rather than pay attention to the episode. Does anyone really believe Voyager is getting home? Does anyone really believe Voyager is going to remain trapped in the space monster? Did anyone care about what was happening on screen? Because I didn't.

Yeah. I like the dude who played the episode's Ahab, but it was really pretty boring, generic "space monster" fare.

[Bliss (*½)

Trivia: The actor who played the alien in "Bliss" also played the head of the Vulcan Science Academy who insults Spock's human heritage in Star Trek XI (source). I like his work, so that's one point in favor of "Bliss".

He was also the Commandant of Rura Penthe in Star Trek VI.

 

[neogothboy74]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Latent Image ***
Don't love it. Don't hate it. But I find parts of it annoying, and other parts enjoyable.

Bride of Chaotica! ***
I too enjoyed this episode more the 2nd time around.

Gravity **
Boring. Will never be watched again.

Bliss *
Didn't like it the first time. Liked it less the 2nd time.

 

[Seven of Five]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Is 'Bliss' the one where the space 'monster' makes the crew think they're going home - except for Seven and Naomi because they don't actually want to go to Earth? Yeah, that one was a bit pants. VOY is going through a rough patch at the mo.

 

[Cyrus]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Trivia: The actor who played the alien in "Bliss" also played the head of the Vulcan Science Academy who insults Spock's human heritage in Star Trek XI (source). I like his work, so that's one point in favor of "Bliss".

He was also the Commandant of Rura Penthe in Star Trek VI.

He was also Data's grandfather.