Since When Is The Motion Picture A Good Trek Film?

[Nerys Myk]

TMP has more of a "Trek" feel.

I became a ST fan because of TMP, having seen only a few TOS and TAS episodes, but for my first few years in fandom I was constantly being told that TMP was a bad film because it didn't have the correct Trek "feel".

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

 

[Jeyl]

You cannot beat the opening sequence with the Klingons and V'Ger. To this day I consider that to be one of the scariest moments in Trek's history. The Klingons really looked devilish in their depiction, loud and unintelligible to our ears, aggressively hostile and very cunning looking. Put them up against a threat that both the audience and the Klingons don't understand and have the klingons be totally decimated by it and than you have one great set-up for the main threat of the story.

Epic.

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

And hat scene has great music too.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

You know, this thread made me re-watch TMP yesterday.

 

[MarianLH]

Which version?


Marian

 

[Amaris]

You cannot beat the opening sequence with the Klingons and V'Ger. To this day I consider that to be one of the scariest moments in Trek's history. The Klingons really looked devilish in their depiction, loud and unintelligible to our ears, aggressively hostile and very cunning looking. Put them up against a threat that both the audience and the Klingons don't understand and have the klingons be totally decimated by it and than you have one great set-up for the main threat of the story.

Epic.

Makes me wish I could have seen it on the big screen.


J.

 

[Warped9]

One major thing I like about TMP is that it's right in line with what Star Trek was: seeking out new life and exploring strange new worlds, or strange new whatever.

One thing I've gotten to really dislike about a lot of later Trek particularly after TNG was that so much of it was ship battles and combat. So many redundant ship battles with the same rubber stamped dialogue had become the de facto substitute for drama. DS9 had something of an excuse because it had become a space war series with its seasons long story arc. But VOY and ENT and the TNG set films drove me nuts with this.

I can enjoy a cool combat sequence, but it seems as if the more polished and sophisticated F/X got the greater tendency to go for depicting more and more kewl space battles.

 

[Jolantru]

One major thing I like about TMP is that it's right in line with what Star Trek was: seeking out new life and exploring strange new worlds, or strange new whatever.

One thing I've gotten to really dislike about a lot of later Trek particularly after TNG was that so much of it was ship battles and combat. So many redundant ship battles with the same rubber stamped dialogue had become the de facto substitute for drama. DS9 had something of an excuse because it had become a space war series with its seasons long story arc. But VOY and ENT and the TNG set films drove me nuts with this.

I can enjoy a cool combat sequence, but it seems as if the more polished and sophisticated F/X got the greater tendency to go for depicting more and more kewl space battles.

I agree with you on this. Only Star Trek V tried to deal with these issues. I should say Insurrection "tried" to do this as well (but failed miserably).

It really is a fascinating movie, and I am moved by the production look of the film. Even without the enhances Special edition effects, the original effects look beautiful and stand the test of time. The effects in this film are far superior to what was slapped on screen in Star Trek IV, V and VI.

The Decker/Ilia releaionship really works in the film. They tried to mimick that same relationship with Troy and Riker in TNG and failed.

I might be in the minority, but I love the uniforms in this movie. I understand they changed them because they were so hard to get in and out of, but they look fantastic, and much more in line with what the TV series had.

I also love Goldsmith's music. Not so much the main theme, as TNG made me sick to death of it, plus Gene Roddenberry showed what an ass he could be by taking royalties from the music every time it was played. Goldsmith then vowed never to do another Star Trek film because of that, but agreed on Star Trek V as Roddenberry had no involvement with the film.

But Goldsmiths score is absolutely beautiful and fits well with the film. Infact the Ilia theme was so inspirational it was played to open the film on a black screen (in the special edition a starfield is added). Also the V'ger music was inspirational. I believe Goldsmith was nominated for an academy award for the score.

I often say that this film was the 2001 of the 1970's. Stylistically they are very similar. Rather than the fast paced dog style space flight of Star Wars, this film shows the beauty and grace of space travel. Not just for the Enterprise, but for all the shuttle flights, the Epsilon 9 space station. The film just looks very graceful.

In some ways the special edition showing the full V'ger space craft, kind of ruined the mystery of the original print, where the ship is so big you never get a full glimpse of it, and you have to guess what it looks like. The mystery of the whole thing was so appealing.

My only criticism of the film is that the whole situation surrounding the impending attack on earth takes precedence over some of the character relationships. No one ever felt quite themselves, where as in Star Trek II, everything is back to normal.

 

[cardinal biggles]

You cannot beat the opening sequence with the Klingons and V'Ger. To this day I consider that to be one of the scariest moments in Trek's history. The Klingons really looked devilish in their depiction, loud and unintelligible to our ears, aggressively hostile and very cunning looking. Put them up against a threat that both the audience and the Klingons don't understand and have the klingons be totally decimated by it and than you have one great set-up for the main threat of the story.

Epic.

The downside is that it's also pretty much the film's high point.

 

[Captain Pike]

It has, in my opinion, at it's core, one hell of a great concept - something I find profoundly thought-provoking. I'm someone who is impressed by ideas, less so by their presentation or execution.

Sure, it's essentially the same concept used in The Changeling, but that doesn't stop it from being a really deeply thought-provoking idea.

And you have to excuse the film it's special effects sequences which due to them running out of time making the thing, went out unedited. Thus you get the overly long V'Ger exterior approach shots.

For me, it is in many ways the greatest of all the Star Trek movies, and it does so effortlessly because it is a genuine high-concept Sci Fi movie, as opposed to all the others which are just mindless action flicks.

I understand why it's not most people's cup of tea though.

 

[Captain Zog]

The Motion Picture has always been quality Trek. Fine concept, good sci-fi, lovely visuals, beautiful score and a profound sense of wonder concerning the mysteries of our universe. Sorta like a working-man's '2001: A Space Odyssey'.

 

[Maurice]

I also love Goldsmith's music. Not so much the main theme, as TNG made me sick to death of it, plus Gene Roddenberry showed what an ass he could be by taking royalties from the music every time it was played. Goldsmith then vowed never to do another Star Trek film because of that, but agreed on Star Trek V as Roddenberry had no involvement with the film.

Wait a sec...what's the source of this? I know Roddenberry wrote lyrics for the TOS theme so he could get part of the royalties that would have gone to Sandy Courage, but I've never heard such a thing about TMP.

 

[Warped9]

The film is often criticized for the characters not seeming themselves. But in context I think it makes sense. They've been apart from each other for some time and it takes awhile for everyone to get back into their groove again. By the end of the film everything is cool again. Works for me.

Robert Wise was in some respects doing what GR and company had done with TOS initially. Conceptually Wise made TMP look beyond what most everyone else was doing. In many respects I think TMP still looks more convincing as a glimpse of a far future than the films that followed. When I look at the uniforms and tech of TWoK-TUC it doesn't look right. It looks like another franchise. Hell, it makes me think of those covers for the Honor Harrington books.

I thought the first two seasons of TNG harkened back to TMP conceptually.

 

[cardinal biggles]

I also love Goldsmith's music. Not so much the main theme, as TNG made me sick to death of it, plus Gene Roddenberry showed what an ass he could be by taking royalties from the music every time it was played. Goldsmith then vowed never to do another Star Trek film because of that, but agreed on Star Trek V as Roddenberry had no involvement with the film.

Wait a sec...what's the source of this? I know Roddenberry wrote lyrics for the TOS theme so he could get part of the royalties that would have gone to Sandy Courage, but I've never heard such a thing about TMP.

Yeah, that's news to me as well. Got a link or a reference for that, Jolantru?

 

[Jolantru]

I also love Goldsmith's music. Not so much the main theme, as TNG made me sick to death of it, plus Gene Roddenberry showed what an ass he could be by taking royalties from the music every time it was played. Goldsmith then vowed never to do another Star Trek film because of that, but agreed on Star Trek V as Roddenberry had no involvement with the film.

Wait a sec...what's the source of this? I know Roddenberry wrote lyrics for the TOS theme so he could get part of the royalties that would have gone to Sandy Courage, but I've never heard such a thing about TMP.

Sorry, I'm confusing him with what happened with Alexander Courage. There was some falling out with Goldsmith though, which is why he didn't do another Star Trek film until Star Trek V.

I know he had alot of frustration with Wise and Roddenberry on the film. Partially because of the constant delay in production and the lack of time he had to work on the music. He completely had to rewrite the theme as Wise thought it was too bland, but good thing he did because it gave us the familar TNG theme.

 

[Captain Pike]

In many respects I think TMP still looks more convincing as a glimpse of a far future than the films that followed. When I look at the uniforms and tech of TWoK-TUC it doesn't look right. It looks like another franchise.

...

I thought the first two seasons of TNG harkened back to TMP conceptually.

Agreed, though those first two TNG seasons are stinkers critically.

I've always greatly disliked the TWOK - TUC uniforms.

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

It has, in my opinion, at it's core, one hell of a great concept - something I find profoundly thought-provoking. I'm someone who is impressed by ideas, less so by their presentation or execution.

Sure, it's essentially the same concept used in The Changeling, but that doesn't stop it from being a really deeply thought-provoking idea.

The problem is that the premise was unbelievable in The Changeling (though it is an entertaining episode) and even less believable in TMP.

We are asled to believe that a space probe from Earth - a very primitive machine, probably about as "intelligent" as your washing machine (and I don't mean that as an insult to the tremendous achievements of Voyager I & II) somehow arrives at a planet inhabited by machine inteligences.

These inteligences decide to augment this simple device that with incredibly powerful and sophisticated technology and a real inteligence and seen it back home. Right.

Imagine it was our planet and an alien amoeba arrives at Earth and somehow lands intact. Using every possible trick at our disposal, we genetically enginear and modify it, causing it to grow as a multi-cellular organism with a brain etc. We build it a lovely powerful space ship and send it off back home. Or not.

And you have to excuse the film it's special effects sequences which due to them running out of time making the thing, went out unedited. Thus you get the overly long V'Ger exterior approach shots.

A work of art must stand as it is. It's no good saying they didn't have time to finish it properly and we must somehow pretend we saw what was really "intended". The version of TMP that you see on the screen is TMP and that is what must be judged.

 

[flemm]

I like the core idea of TMP, but I've had a hard time getting past the pacing and the self-reverential quality of the film. I've never been able to enjoy it for those reasons, but I will have to give it another shot sometime

 

[Captain Pike]

Yes, but you should consider the public mood and perception of space exploration in the era in which the movie was made.

There was still a great sense of wonder, awe and a little trepidation about our first steps into the universe. Many of us thought that in the next few decades we'd have explored the moon and the nearby planets and would have established colonies out there. And there was this sense of "what lies in wait for us out there?". We'd just begun sending these probes out towards outer space, and even though NASA scientists had the forethought to inscript on them greeting messages to alien beings should they ever come into contact with an alien species, the thought that this could actually happen had only occurred to a few of us. TMP (and The Changeling) delved into the possible ramifications of such an encounter.

Whether it seems realistic to you or not, it's easy to be critical in these more enlightened times, but it dared to ask a pretty big question about something many of us hadn't fully contemplated or felt uncomfortable in doing so. In a similar manner, Carl Sagan's novel Contact and oddly the (rather crappy) film Species did the same thing.

These days the space program has run down to the point where it is entirely un-manned exploration, mostly of just our solar system. And people have become blase and disenchanted about the whole thing. But I'd be lying if I didn't find the prospect of the idea posed in TMP still completely awe-inspiring - practicalities be damned.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Well said, Captain Pike.

Audiences today (the general public, that is) wouldn't tolerate "fantastical" science fiction, because they know that there's nothing in space and they care little for it. That's why hard, hard, hardity mchard scifi has become more popular than stuff with aliens and what-not. Audiences aren't willing to ask "Is this all that there is? Is there nothing more?". The question doesn't compute for them.