A step parent is still a parent.
More than that. He sounded MEAN.
Nothing justifies abuse, not even car theft.
He sure sounded like one to me.
If You Were Kirk's Uncle
- Thread starter Omega_Glory
- Start date
A step parent is still a parent.
More than that. He sounded MEAN.
Nothing justifies abuse, not even car theft.
He sure sounded like one to me.
Burning rage in your early teens is very different than burning rage in your 30's. While it is "just" entertainment, I still like to adhere to Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is the most likely. It doesn't take much to set a young teen off, and adults aren't saints. To assume that step-dad is an abusive bastard requires several leaps of logic that don't make sense.
Whether Winona Kirk was Starfleet or a civilian, based on a very brief scene at the beginning of the movie, we can make a few assumptions. One being that a woman that George Kirk would love and marry wouldn't be a mental basketcase, incapable of extricating herself from an abusive relationship. I don't like to build some gothic tale of intrigue and abuse when it's not necessary. Jim Kirk is the son of a hero- who died and nearly had his wife and unborn son join him. I can picture said wife doing everything possible to avoid having her sons follow in that path- even though their predisposition may definitely lead them that way. How would a kid react who is leaning toward the stars react if his parents are trying to keep him grounded in the mud? Angry? Confused? Enraged?
I don't think either of us is going to convince the other, and I don't really see the need to- since it's all goofy assumption anyway. But I have seen behavior that can only be explained by predisposition, and Jim Kirk seems to be loaded with it. "Frank" can be any template we want to project our own upbringing on- but little Jimmy Kirk looked to be a handful, a handful that no step-father could've adequately coped with. To assume evil intentions implies the failure of a host of people: mom, grandparents, family friends. It just is too implausible compared to the growing pains of a confused boy.
Whether Winona Kirk was Starfleet or a civilian, based on a very brief scene at the beginning of the movie, we can make a few assumptions. One being that a woman that George Kirk would love and marry wouldn't be a mental basketcase, incapable of extricating herself from an abusive relationship. I don't like to build some gothic tale of intrigue and abuse when it's not necessary. Jim Kirk is the son of a hero- who died and nearly had his wife and unborn son join him. I can picture said wife doing everything possible to avoid having her sons follow in that path- even though their predisposition may definitely lead them that way. How would a kid react who is leaning toward the stars react if his parents are trying to keep him grounded in the mud? Angry? Confused? Enraged?
I don't think either of us is going to convince the other, and I don't really see the need to- since it's all goofy assumption anyway. But I have seen behavior that can only be explained by predisposition, and Jim Kirk seems to be loaded with it. "Frank" can be any template we want to project our own upbringing on- but little Jimmy Kirk looked to be a handful, a handful that no step-father could've adequately coped with. To assume evil intentions implies the failure of a host of people: mom, grandparents, family friends. It just is too implausible compared to the growing pains of a confused boy.
George obviously has excellent taste
but I think it's a stretch to assume that people in abusive relationships are mental basketcases because they don't leave. It's rarely as simple as that. More like, they want to leave, but can't.I suppose so.
But I still can't get over how Frank (or whatever his name is) sounded over the comm. If we had never heard that, I wouldn't be saying these things that I am. The comm voice is most of what I'm basing this on. Frank simply sounded mean and nasty.
Besides, if Frank and Jimmy really didn't get along, which does seem to be the case, you'd think Frank would jump at the chance to get the kid enlisted in Starfleet and out of the house...
Omega_Glory
Commodore
^^^Exactly.
Jimmy could have learned to be an asswipe from other kids for that matter. It isn't always the parent regardless of what the socialists would have us believe.
Jimmy could have learned to be an asswipe from other kids for that matter. It isn't always the parent regardless of what the socialists would have us believe.
Omega_Glory
Commodore
A great song, Red Barchetta.
"My uncle has a country place, that no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm, before the motor law
And on sundays I elude the eyes and hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire, where my white-haired uncle waits.
Jump to the ground
As the turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind,
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me, an old machine ---
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream
I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car
A brilliant red barchetta, from a better, vanished time
I fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime...
Wind in my hair ---
Shifting and drifting ---
Mechanical music ---
Adrenalin surge ---
Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware
Suddenly, ahead of me, across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air-car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires, to run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase
Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud
With fear and hope, Ive got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded
At the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle
At the fireside..."
God I love fast cars...
"My uncle has a country place, that no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm, before the motor law
And on sundays I elude the eyes and hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire, where my white-haired uncle waits.
Jump to the ground
As the turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind,
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me, an old machine ---
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream
I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car
A brilliant red barchetta, from a better, vanished time
I fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime...
Wind in my hair ---
Shifting and drifting ---
Mechanical music ---
Adrenalin surge ---
Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware
Suddenly, ahead of me, across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air-car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires, to run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase
Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud
With fear and hope, Ive got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded
At the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle
At the fireside..."
God I love fast cars...
I wore that as an avatar for about 15 minutes when I mixed up the "Canon Violation" and "Not Dead" avatar trends.
Whoa, whoa, whoa - ok,
1) Hands up all those here who have raised teeneged sons?
2) All we heard was the male adult doing his nut because his underaged charge has just stolen (taken without permission) a valuable antique which also can be a potentially deadly weapon - as can any car. He sounds not different that I would have, had one of our (now all over 21yo) sons ever taken into their heaqds to -
1) take my car without permission,
2)be driving underaged (breaking the law AND voiding any insurance cover)
Frank didn't sound mean or nasty - exasperated/frustrated/ at the end of his tether would be closer.
We don't know how many warnings or chances young Jim had been given - parent/step-parents/guardians have breaking points.
ETA: Not to mentione that What's-His-Name would have to face Winona when she gets home, and explain how Jim managed to get into that much trouble.
1) Hands up all those here who have raised teeneged sons?
2) All we heard was the male adult doing his nut because his underaged charge has just stolen (taken without permission) a valuable antique which also can be a potentially deadly weapon - as can any car. He sounds not different that I would have, had one of our (now all over 21yo) sons ever taken into their heaqds to -
1) take my car without permission,
2)be driving underaged (breaking the law AND voiding any insurance cover)
Frank didn't sound mean or nasty - exasperated/frustrated/ at the end of his tether would be closer.
We don't know how many warnings or chances young Jim had been given - parent/step-parents/guardians have breaking points.
ETA: Not to mentione that What's-His-Name would have to face Winona when she gets home, and explain how Jim managed to get into that much trouble.
George obviously has excellent taste
I suppose so.
Jumping into the fray here...
It is possible for women to go from "normal" relationships to abusive ones, though in this situation we have no direct evidence that the step-father was abusing Kirk's mother.
Another possibility - some step-parents may be very respectful to their spouse but more abusive to their spouses' children ("I married you, not your kids", etc). They may see their step-children as somehow a threat to their relationship with their spouse. I grew up with a step-dad who was very mean to me when my mother wasn't around, but in front of her he was a perfect angel. It made it look like I was the cause of all our family problems and that I lied a lot, since others didn't witness things that went on. Kirk's family may have had some dynamic like that, especially since the mother was conveniently off-planet when the car scene occurred.
Regardless, Kirk definately didn't have a good relationship with his step-dad. I think Pike was the first older man Kirk ever looked up to. Considering that we see years of deliquent behavior from him, it doesn't look like he's had a strong role model. Pike reached him in a few minutes in a way that his step-father apparantly hadn't in all those years.
In the country, we learn when we're big enough to reach the pedals. I learned how to drive my grandfather's pickup when I was ten.
Also, in my continuity, that's not Jim Kirk driving the Corvette. It's his brother. (Admit it; if you were caught in that situation, you'd give the cop your brother's name, too.) Poor Jimmy: "But I don't even know how to drive!"
First....I would wait until he's all grown up and then spank him daily.....
You sick, sick, sick individual.
Carry on.
Not sure how this became about abusive relationships but it's unfair to call a woman names just because she wont leave a bad relationship.
Most of it has to do with fear and love. You're too afraid to leave but you also love him too much to leave.
It's not as easy as people think to just get up and walk out. There are a lot of emotional things going on in a woman's head.
Most of it has to do with fear and love. You're too afraid to leave but you also love him too much to leave.
It's not as easy as people think to just get up and walk out. There are a lot of emotional things going on in a woman's head.
I'm still trying to work out how we got from an uncle/step father speaking angrily to a disobedient, and I'm willing to bet, openly defiant child -to an abusive marriage. How else would YOU react if the child you are looking after /are responsible/ in loco parentis (sp?) had just stolen a car and gone on a joy ride? Cheer him on? Pat him on the back? Or read him the riot act?Either you all have very co-operative, compliant, obedient children to whom you'venever needed to raise your voice, or discipline, or you have none.
Because we're Trek fans, and the ideas for a thousand bad fanfics are flourishing like weeds, and the angst is about pour forth like a river. 
So yeah, making whoever he is a real problem male figure based on one conversation is going overboard. Sort of like calling a woman a basketcase is also going overboard. Both assumptions are equally presumptuous and harsh- which is the point I was trying, however badly, to make.
Sorry, but my mother occasionally used harsher language than that during my childhood/idiot years. Abusive - not hardly. And it may have involved her new sportscar (a Datsun 280-ZX if I remember correctly).
So yeah, making whoever he is a real problem male figure based on one conversation is going overboard. Sort of like calling a woman a basketcase is also going overboard. Both assumptions are equally presumptuous and harsh- which is the point I was trying, however badly, to make.
Sorry, but my mother occasionally used harsher language than that during my childhood/idiot years. Abusive - not hardly. And it may have involved her new sportscar (a Datsun 280-ZX if I remember correctly).
I hadn't heard the pre-release info, but going just off what's in the movie, all we have is the phone conversation, and there's nothing there to indicate anything. The fact that he's agitated could be because he's an angry, abusive guy. Or it could be because he's fed up with Jim's misbehavior. Or it could be that he's exasperated by his failure to forge a relationship with his wife's son. Or it could be because he's out of his mind with worry about Jim getting himself hurt, or hurting someone else, on his joyride and is resorting to intimidation to get the kid to end this potential tragedy ASAP. The stepdad could be anything from an abuser to a loving, doting father figure, and that conversation would still fit. Hell, that conversation could have been made from snippets of conversations I had with my parents over the years (though they preferred "beat you to a bloody pulp" rather than "whip your ass") and I never did anything near as bad/dangerous as joyride in their priceless antique car when I was barely big enough to see over the dashboard.
Personally, I'm really conflicted on this point. I think it's totally wrong to blame abuse victims for their abuse, and yet if Jim were abused by his stepfather, I would blame Winona for subjecting him to that situation, even if she were herself also being abused.
Good Lord, I received the cane handle of a feather duster around the back of my calves from my class teacher for copying words down in the wrong order from the blackboard when I was in 2nd grade.
And a rap across the knuckles from the piano teacher if I hit a wrong note.
WHAT ABUSE???????
For the love of G*d, apart from the ONE exasperated, frustrated, (and quite possible scared) utterance from this man (who sounded to me like he'd been pushed as far as he could go), you are screaming abuse? This kid has just stolen a highpowered vehicle - and gone for a joy ride. One that (while it didn't sit the script writers in this case) could have ended up with Jim dead, not to mention any other cars/vehicles/pedestrians who might have been in the way,depending on where he lost control, as happens IRL.
SO, I'll ask again, how would YOU handle this issue?
Plus all this "it's the step-father's/mother's fault" - overlooking the fact that this incarnation of the future heroic captain, seems to be a PITA brat who hasn't, even by the time he's in the bar, learned the concepts of boundaries and rules.
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Well, we could keep going in circles here about what started it all. It's one thing for kids to be rebellious, but a pre-teen stealing a car is quite extreme. This is why people are "reading" more into the situation.
It's also questionable whether Kirk really was just going for a joyride. There was a thread a couple of weeks ago debating whether he seemed suicidal.
Yeah I didn't get where they got "suicidal" from.
Sensation-seeking/risk-taking personality - well even in his older years in the Prime universe, that was obvious
I'm pretty sure you'd have to have those tendencies to make the grade as a daring-do SF captain;
Rebellious preteen - starting young but yep;
Ticked off at his dead father, yeah ok;
Bit of a prat - yep;
Needed a (metaphoric) swift kick up the bottom - definitely;
Suicidal - No.
BTW, I'm not going around in cirlces, I'm still waiting for those condemning the step-father's reaction, to tell us what their reaction would be or how they think he should have reacted in that emotionally heightened situation.
Sensation-seeking/risk-taking personality - well even in his older years in the Prime universe, that was obvious
I'm pretty sure you'd have to have those tendencies to make the grade as a daring-do SF captain;
Rebellious preteen - starting young but yep;
Ticked off at his dead father, yeah ok;
Bit of a prat - yep;
Needed a (metaphoric) swift kick up the bottom - definitely;
Suicidal - No.
BTW, I'm not going around in cirlces, I'm still waiting for those condemning the step-father's reaction, to tell us what their reaction would be or how they think he should have reacted in that emotionally heightened situation.
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