How can one romulan mining ship destroy the federation armada?

[Peter the Younger]

I figured it was a planet harvester like that ship in "Dead Space" and that is why it had powerful weapons. I also believe since teh Romulans are a warlike race, they would pretty much arm everything in case they need it in time of war.

True. A human looks at a mining ship and says, why does it need weapons and armor? We're not planning on taking it into battle." A Romulan looks at it and says, "Wait a minute, if we get into a massive war and are depending on ships like this for raw materials to fund the war effort, our enemies could attack our lightly armed mining ships and cut off our supplies, crippling our fleet without ever engaging them. Arm that thing to the teeth!"

 

[Dac]

When the Narada faced down the Kelvin, Nero didnt know where they were, their ship had just been through some enormous gravitational stress and Nero needed information - the best way to get it would be to ask the indigenous people, which in this case was the crew of the Kelvin.

After Nero "terminated" Robau, he had no need for them, hence the attempt at wiping everyone out in the escaping shuttles, but George destroyed the torpedoes attacking the shuttles rather than those attacking the Kelvin, buying them time to escape.

Now, when he attacked the Enterprise, the ship itself was more advanced than anything else he had encountered previously in the past, allowing it to last longer than one volley.

Rather than nitpicking the Narada's ability to destroy federation ships which is easily explainable if you USE YOUR IMAGINATION, Why doesnt anyone question the fact of WHY the Narada didnt attack the Enterprise after the red matter has been deployed? They had ample oppurtunity to lob a dozen or so weapons which could have easily crippled the Enterprise or destroyed it in just a few moments before shooting off away from the planet?

As much as I love the movie, it suffers far more flaws in story than it does in technological foibles.

 

[Marc]

Remember - the E went in with shields up - all the other ships thought they were just coming in on a rescue mission. They may not have had time to fire so much as a shot - they were fish in a barrel.

Apart from the blatantly obvious Sulu's little faux pas had another effect.

By the time the Enterprise arrived, Nero thought he'd probably wiped the fleet out (the other ships would have all arrived at more or less the same time) and not expecting another ship to show up 2 minuters later.

Also the debris from the other ships probably hid the the big-E's arrival.

 

[Cyke101]

As much as I love the movie, it suffers far more flaws in story than it does in technological foibles.

Of all the threads that criticize the movie, this is the post that makes the most sense to me. If one doesn't like the movie that's a-okay (and yes, I know you said you loved the movie ), but one goes out of his or her way to hate the movie b/c of the way the transporters worked, as opposed to arguing about certain story elements, then I have a problem with the review. Ick.

Trek is so full of technological foibles, starting in 1966, that I don't know why people keep sticking to these foibles as faults of the movie.

 

[TheMurph]

I believe the Kelvin lasted longer is because the Narada and crew were probably disoriented after going through the hole and plus they needed info. During the battle around Vulcan the Narada was probably able to use their sensors to detect the fleet appearing and have torpedos ready before they had a chance to raise shields.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Even if you discount the Romulans ability to enhance the Narada with Borg tech, I fully buy Countdown's explanation that Nero let the military redesign his ship for war before he went on with his revenge in the 24th century. He didn't plan to visit the past. It happened to him. And he surely wouldn't have dared to take on Defiants and Sovereigns with a simple mining ship. it WAS upgraded in some ways, Borg or no Borg.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Even if you discount the Romulans ability to enhance the Narada with Borg tech, I fully buy Countdown's explanation that Nero let the military redesign his ship for war before he went on with his revenge in the 24th century. He didn't plan to visit the past. It happened to him. And he surely wouldn't have dared to take on Defiants and Sovereigns with a simple mining ship. it WAS upgraded in some ways, Borg or no Borg.

Was ANY of that in the movie though? I think Countdown is too much of a crutch around here.

 

[Jeri]

The Narada did not attack the Enterprise after Vulcan disintegrated, because Nero wanted both Spocks -- young and old -- to suffer the way Nero had. And he was right; young Spock was definitely suffering.

Nero plainly corrected Ayel when his second in command thought Nero intended to kill Spock, coming through the black hole in the Jellyfish. Nero's head snapped around, and he said "...I don't want to kill him! I want him to suffer!"

 

[Dac]

The Narada did not attack the Enterprise after Vulcan disintegrated, because Nero wanted both Spocks -- young and old -- to suffer the way Nero had. And he was right; young Spock was definitely suffering.

Nero plainly corrected Ayel when his second in command thought Nero intended to kill Spock, coming through the black hole in the Jellyfish. Nero's head snapped around, and he said "...I don't want to kill him! I want him to suffer!"

Fair enough, why take vengeance once when you can have it twice?

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Even if you discount the Romulans ability to enhance the Narada with Borg tech, I fully buy Countdown's explanation that Nero let the military redesign his ship for war before he went on with his revenge in the 24th century. He didn't plan to visit the past. It happened to him. And he surely wouldn't have dared to take on Defiants and Sovereigns with a simple mining ship. it WAS upgraded in some ways, Borg or no Borg.

Was ANY of that in the movie though? I think Countdown is too much of a crutch around here.

No it wasn't but it's logical to assume something like this.
otherwise it would have been immensely stupid of Nero (yeah i know, he's not the brightest anyway) to pick fights with Starfleet of the 24th century. He wouldn't have lasted against a Defiant class ship for more than 2 minutes if it hadn't been upgraded in some ways.

Actually now that I think about it, it wouldn't even last against a Defiant WITH upgraded missles. The Defiant would fly circles around the Narada and take out the rather slow missles with it's rear phasers while reducing the Narada to scrap metal with it's front pulse phasers.

 

[Karnbeln]

I figured it was a planet harvester like that ship in "Dead Space" and that is why it had powerful weapons. I also believe since teh Romulans are a warlike race, they would pretty much arm everything in case they need it in time of war.

True. A human looks at a mining ship and says, why does it need weapons and armor? We're not planning on taking it into battle." A Romulan looks at it and says, "Wait a minute, if we get into a massive war and are depending on ships like this for raw materials to fund the war effort, our enemies could attack our lightly armed mining ships and cut off our supplies, crippling our fleet without ever engaging them. Arm that thing to the teeth!"

Not to mention that the Romulans probably NEED every ship FOR their fleets. With all the talk of the "Romulan Star Empire" and it's threat to the Federation in the series, it's easy to forget that the Romulans (like the Klingons, actually) are ONE race of people, with some subjugated races beneath them to do their bidding. Compare this to a intergalactic federation that has the resources of hundreds of worlds and the willing labor, science, and warriors of many races, all of which can be kept at the technological prime of the rest of the community since they're not slaves or being strongarmed. The Federation can afford to make pure mining vessels. The Romulans, however, if they want to compete with the shear scope of the Federation, need every ship and able-bodied Romulan available to fight.

From that perspective, it's natural that every vessel would be part warship.

 

[Jeri]

Fair enough, why take vengeance once when you can have it twice?

Indeed; Nero knew young Spock was on the Enterprise, because he spoke to him in an earlier scene...

 

[USS KG5]

...WHY the Narada didnt attack the Enterprise after the red matter has been deployed? They had ample oppurtunity to lob a dozen or so weapons which could have easily crippled the Enterprise or destroyed it in just a few moments before shooting off away from the planet?

Because he wanted Spock, BOTH Spocks, he was not fussy, to see Vulcan destroyed and suffer. Nero left after he withdrew the drill, so a couple of minutes before Vulcan was destroyed.

They actually discuss this, at length, in the film.

As much as I love the movie, it suffers far more flaws in story than it does in technological foibles.

It really doesn't you know. Most of these "flaws" are either picked out of nowhere, or explained however subtly in the film, it is a well written consistent piece of drama.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Even if you discount the Romulans ability to enhance the Narada with Borg tech, I fully buy Countdown's explanation that Nero let the military redesign his ship for war before he went on with his revenge in the 24th century. He didn't plan to visit the past. It happened to him. And he surely wouldn't have dared to take on Defiants and Sovereigns with a simple mining ship. it WAS upgraded in some ways, Borg or no Borg.

Was ANY of that in the movie though? I think Countdown is too much of a crutch around here.

No it wasn't but it's logical to assume something like this.
otherwise it would have been immensely stupid of Nero (yeah i know, he's not the brightest anyway) to pick fights with Starfleet of the 24th century. He wouldn't have lasted against a Defiant class ship for more than 2 minutes if it hadn't been upgraded in some ways.

Actually now that I think about it, it wouldn't even last against a Defiant WITH upgraded missles. The Defiant would fly circles around the Narada and take out the rather slow missles with it's rear phasers while reducing the Narada to scrap metal with it's front pulse phasers.

Yeah, it's just the weakest part of the movie to me, not necessarily how formidable the Narada is, but the whole Nero character. He's only given the sketchiest of outlines, generic Space Baddie trappings and a big mining ship to justify the big handy space drill needed to conveniently deliver the sinister red matter.

 

[VulcanJedi]

Seriously, can someone attempt to explain this one to me? I am having a really hard time with this one. Was there anything *in the film* to explain this? I know what they said in Countdown, but it is a big stretch...

No, nothing in the film. Just Countdown's idiotic explanation of Narada being infused with Borg tech.

*Sigh* Again with the Borg.

I could be wrong, but I guess the Narada being from 200 years in the fictional future and it all being a movie are primarily the reasons for its superior strength. But don't quote me on that.

It's hard to believe, I guess, that a small group of angry men, intent on causing pain and suffering, driven by revenge, could do such a thing. The idea that several angry men from far away could use a vehicle , intended for innocent and peaceful purposes, and use this seemingly harmless vehicle to cause great destruction seems implausible, but it happens!

Isn't it all the more possible that if these angry men came from the future, with more advanced technology, they would be able to cause even more destruction?

 

[The Wormhole]

Seriously, can someone attempt to explain this one to me? I am having a really hard time with this one. Was there anything *in the film* to explain this? I know what they said in Countdown, but it is a big stretch...

No, nothing in the film. Just Countdown's idiotic explanation of Narada being infused with Borg tech.

*Sigh* Again with the Borg.

I could be wrong, but I guess the Narada being from 200 years in the fictional future and it all being a movie are primarily the reasons for its superior strength. But don't quote me on that.

It's hard to believe, I guess, that a small group of angry men, intent on causing pain and suffering, driven by revenge, could do such a thing. The idea that several angry men from far away could use a vehicle , intended for innocent and peaceful purposes, and use this seemingly harmless vehicle to cause great destruction seems implausible, but it happens!

Isn't it all the more possible that if these angry men came from the future, with more advanced technology, they would be able to cause even more destruction?

Possible, but consider this. I don't come to Trek BBS for logic. I come to Trek BBS to rant and go on like an irrational idiot. Consider the implications of that.

 

[ALF]

I could be wrong, but I guess the Narada being from 200 years in the fictional future and it all being a movie are primarily the reasons for its superior strength. But don't quote me on that.

Yes. I'll drink to that!

 

[RAMA]

Seriously, can someone attempt to explain this one to me? I am having a really hard time with this one. Was there anything *in the film* to explain this? I know what they said in Countdown, but it is a big stretch...

Borg tech:http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Countdown-1-ebook/dp/B001VMAYAC

 

[RAMA]

Ladies and Gentlemen, meet the USS Kearsarge. (BB-5: Commissioned 1900.)

Top of the line battleship. 11.5 thousand tons. Top speed, 16kn, 4X13 inch guns, manually aimed, 4X8 inch guns, manually aimed, 14x6 inch guns, 20X six pound cannons, 8X1 pounders, 4X30 caliber machine guns. All manually aimed. Armor thickness unknown - normal for the time was 406 mm.

40 years later, with modifications to the eighties, here's the USS Missouri:

45K tons, 33knots, 9X16, 20X5, 80X40mm anti-aircraft, 40X20mm a-a, all computer controlled by the AEGIS battle system. 11.8 inch hull plating all around.

Now, tack on another 50 years of development.

But those are warships; the Narada is not. Put up the Exxon Valdez or one of those oil derrick ships instead.

Lots of WWII cruisers became very effective and powerful aircraft carriers after a refit.

RAMA

 

[Jolantru]

Seriously, can someone attempt to explain this one to me? I am having a really hard time with this one. Was there anything *in the film* to explain this? I know what they said in Countdown, but it is a big stretch...

They had advanced weaponry from the 24th century. That's how.