That's explaining what happened. "Disingenuous" is a word politicians and talk show hosts use to avoid calling their opponent an actual liar. Please stick to the topic.
Consider this about Kirk's promotion...
- Thread starter Norrin Radd
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Oh, now I get it. You answer off topic matters and when called on the balled faced implausibility of your response, you ignore it and say to get back on topic. Good to know.
Pike knew about the "lightning storm in space". He wrote about it in his dissertation, which is why Pike went quiet when Kirk told him about reading it. Pike was clearly piecing the two together when more evidence was brought forward.
So he forgot momentarily that this "lightning storm in space" was the exact same phenomenon that happened 25 years before, so what? It slipped his mind because he had other more important things to worry about.
So he forgot momentarily that this "lightning storm in space" was the exact same phenomenon that happened 25 years before, so what? It slipped his mind because he had other more important things to worry about.
I am on topic. However, your self-described devotion to logic clearly does not preclude your frequent indulgence in ad hominem fallacies -- which are by definition off topic.
I think low-rank officers may have saved their nations, at least arguably so, without making the sort of leap Kirk did.
They saved a government or a culture; they didn't save the dirt under their feet from anihilation -- and even if they had, it would not be comparable, because the rest of the planet was intact and populated. We have nothing to compare.
i see it as a combination of the perfect storm..
kirk was probably already a lieutenant and depending on how he had performed during his academy years might have been in line for promotion to lieutenant commander soon after he leaving.
he not only first saves enterprise by connecting the info he had together he also goes on saves not just earth but the rest of the federation planets.
there is also the situation were a lot of people were lost on those other ships.
at time were the connie ship building program might have been at its height.
so while kirk jumped ranks i suspect he wasnt the only one that got promoted sooner then normal.
add in he proved what pike had been preaching that starfleet needed more commanders to take the initiative.
he had just fallen back then earth and possibly other planets would have been lost.
kirk was probably already a lieutenant and depending on how he had performed during his academy years might have been in line for promotion to lieutenant commander soon after he leaving.
he not only first saves enterprise by connecting the info he had together he also goes on saves not just earth but the rest of the federation planets.
there is also the situation were a lot of people were lost on those other ships.
at time were the connie ship building program might have been at its height.
so while kirk jumped ranks i suspect he wasnt the only one that got promoted sooner then normal.
add in he proved what pike had been preaching that starfleet needed more commanders to take the initiative.
he had just fallen back then earth and possibly other planets would have been lost.
There was a question posed that was off topic. You chose to answer said question. Your "explanation" has several holes in it. I brought these to your attention, then you chided me for being off topic.
And if you think me bringing this to your attention is an ad hominem, you should take Logic 101 again.
Now, hows about you scroll back and try answering me. Or would continuing the original conversation instead of wandering off on this side tangent of logic somehow also be off topic?
Edit: But since I have a good notion that you're not going to bother, here goes.
To recap your explanation. He's assigned the Kelvin for his dissertation but doesn't remember anything about the lightning storm until Kirk mentions it to him.
That's utterly ridiculous.
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I am on topic -- and you have called me a liar, which is not.
Roberto Orci noted on TrekMovie that the script is deliberately vague about when Kirk's promotion scene takes place in relation to the rest of the film. My personal interpretation is that Kirk simultaneously held a commission of Lieutenant while a cadet in his final year at the Academy, and that the scene featuring Kirk taking command of the Enterprise actually takes place at least three years later than the rest of the film -- to give him time to jump another couple of ranks due to sheer awesomeness.
Fascinating! That's the equivalent of a jump from Lieutenant to Commodore! It's a jump four ranks, though Kirk's was a jump of five (if we assume he held the frank of Ensign, anyway). If Pershing had jumped five ranks as Kirk did, he would have gone straight from Lieutenant to Rear Admiral, Upper Half.
True. But, to be fair to Kirk, he did formulate and execute the successful plan to save Earth, the Federation capital, from an incredibly advanced enemy against whom they had no defense and save Captain Pike -- a feat that I'm not aware of any officer or cadet in U.S. history equalling in modern terms (i.e., saving Washington, D.C., from an advanced enemy submarine).
1. There is no evidence whatsoever that he was a delinquent during his time at Starfleet Academy. Indeed, his cheating on the Kobayashi Maru Test is the only instance we know of him violating regulations before the Narada crisis began.
2. His accomplishment in saving Earth -- and, by the way, the rest of the Federation -- is not exactly inconsiderable.
I really don't know that we can say that, given that there's literally never been an equivalent accomplishment in real-world history.
No, I have not. Your use of the phrase ad hominem is incorrect. You are mistaken, not a liar. To be a liar you would have to know the correct use and misrepresent it.
And you continue to avoid the question and stay off topic.
...which is an ad hominem fallacy. You haven't made an argument. Mine was that I explained what happened. If you didn't see it that way, it doesn't follow that I am mistaken -- or a liar.
This would be funny if I didn't know you were serious.
There has been no ad hominem attack. You are mistaken in your use of the term ad hominem.
Now, I've written a dissertation. There is a fair amount of research involved, and a lot of hours spent pouring over the topic. It is not something easily forgotten.
Now really, really can you answer me something?
Is it your contention that Captain Pike wrote his dissertation about the Kelvin, remembered it long enough to mention it to Kirk in the bar, then promptly forgot it until Kirk mentions it again on the bridge of the Enterprise?
Further, is it your claim that despite the intimate tie of the "lightning storm in space" to the Kelvin and her ultimate fate, that Captain Pike also forgot the connection until Kirk mentioned it to him on the bridge?
i think i said that and yes it is very believable.
remembering you wrote a dissertation about an event and three years later remembering a very small detail of that dissertation is a very different thing.
especially if you are dealing with a situation that on the surface dosnt seem to have any similarities.
add in kirk also had the info about the attack and destruction of the
klingon war ships everything connected very fast for him.
I don't think there's any evidence that he was a *Captain* captain in the final scene. He could've been a commander or lieutenant commander of the Enterprise while serving as Pike's "relief."
He wore Captain's stripes, but he also wore the same stripes as a Rear Admiral in The Motion Picture, so I think it's more of a positional thing and he would wear lt. commander stripes or whatever when assigned to Earth.
He wore Captain's stripes, but he also wore the same stripes as a Rear Admiral in The Motion Picture, so I think it's more of a positional thing and he would wear lt. commander stripes or whatever when assigned to Earth.
Your premises are flawed.
The Kelvin initially reported the lightning storm in space. Then watched as the Narada flew out of it. Any trained and experienced crew would deduce that they are connected.
In the long and storied career of the Kelvin and her crew, being destroyed by a massive Romulan ship that emerged out of a lightning storm in space, would rank high on the remembering scale.
Chekov mentions the lightning storm in space while sitting no more than 5 feet in front of Pike.
After researching and writing a dissertation on a ship that was destroyed under extremely unusual circumstances, Pike remembers it years later (long enough to mention it to Kirk), remembers how long George was in command, and how many lives he saved, but completely forgets it three years later.
Your claim is ridiculous.
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