Consider this about Kirk's promotion...

[Jeri]

If he had saved the planet but wasn't even in Starfleet at all, what would that mean? Probably nothing. It's not that people aren't grateful for his actions, his heroism would be acknowledged. His promotion to captain just isn't a believable outcome.

Had he not been in Starfleet, then they would have given him whatever else he wanted. They gave him a captaincy, because that is what he wanted.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If he had saved the planet but wasn't even in Starfleet at all, what would that mean? Probably nothing. It's not that people aren't grateful for his actions, his heroism would be acknowledged. His promotion to captain just isn't a believable outcome.

Had he not been in Starfleet, then they would have given him whatever else he wanted. They gave him a captaincy, because that is what he wanted.

And what if Kirk had wanted the destruction of Romulus because a Romulan killed his father? Would Starfleet have obliged him there too?

 

[Jeri]

And what if Kirk had wanted the destruction of Romulus because a Romulan killed his father? Would Starfleet have obliged him there too?

Kinda doubt it; he wanted something they could give. And they gave it to him.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Kirk in TOS has saved the planet many times, and didn't get absolutely anything he wanted after any of those (indeed, in ST IV, he was *demoted*). So what makes this time any more special?

I can't say this enough times. I don't CARE what Kirk did - promoting him all the way to Captain in one go, cheapens the entire military command structure. If Kirk can skip all those lower ranks, it makes those ranks meaningless. It implies that officers who actually have those lower ranks, and earned them, don't matter - only Kirk does.

 

[Jeri]

Kirk in TOS has saved the planet many times, and didn't get absolutely anything he wanted after any of those (indeed, in ST IV, he was *demoted*). So what makes this time any more special?

I can't say this enough times. I don't CARE what Kirk did - promoting him all the way to Captain in one go, cheapens the entire military command structure. If Kirk can skip all those lower ranks, it makes those ranks meaningless. It implies that officers who actually have those lower ranks, and earned them, don't matter - only Kirk does.

Both Kirks wanted more than anything to be a starship captain. TOS Kirk already was one.

They couldn't give him anything more for saving the planet than he already had.

The only lower ranks who would resent him being made captain after doing so are not worth a spit. It's they whom the service does not need.

 

[Norrin Radd]

If they're really that upset about it, then they can go save their own planet.

 

[Jeri]

If they're really that upset about it, then they can go save their own planet.

Not a chance; that bunch would fall to infighting, alcohol and drug addition. I would say wenching, but they probably couldn't get any.

 

[Cyke101]

Kirk in TOS has saved the planet many times, and didn't get absolutely anything he wanted after any of those (indeed, in ST IV, he was *demoted*). So what makes this time any more special?

Well, to be fair, I think it's implied by the grin on the president's face that Starfleet knew Kirk wanted to return to captaincy; no one else in the room considered it a punishment, but rather a reward. Also telling that in exchange for saving the Earth, all other charges against Kirk were dropped and the names of the crew were all cleared.

 

[Prons]

Now that I think about it while looking at an anatomical diagram, it would have made a hell of a lot of sense for Pike's nose to have been bleeding when Kirk came to rescue him. Looks like the quickest way to the brain stem is through the nasal cavity...

I think that was an artistic liberty, the powers that be probably thought a slug going into someone's nose wouldn't be good in a theater of kids that just ate a bunch of candy and popcorn.

As for the rank, I wouldn't worry too much about it. It was an artistic liberty, and it's not really that big of a detail in my opinion. The fact he hasn't "tamed" his crew is an interesting fact, and I hope in the next movie we see him struggling to prove himself as a worthy captain. It'd be an interesting plot element I think.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

And in the end...What does Kirk know about running a starship?

He knows how to use one to save the Earth!


You know, the Saving The Earth thing?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The only lower ranks who would resent him being made captain after doing so are not worth a spit. It's they whom the service does not need.

Oh? And why is that?

If you've worked all your life to earn something - anything - and then some pissant upstart is *handed* that thing on a silver platter, you are going to be resentful (and entitled to it), believe you me.

For example: At your place of work, wherever that may be, I'm guessing you've worked hard to get where you are. So what if some newbie walks in the door, fresh from his job interview, and is immediately made CEO? You wouldn't like that, would you?

If there's anybody on the Enterprise who isn't a cadet , and any of them decide to transfer off the ship because they can't stomach the idea of serving under some pipsqueak who didn't earn his rank (and please, don't tell me about saving the planet, even that's not enough*), I would sympathize with that. I might do it myself if I were in their shoes.

Now, if they remain on the ship, of course they should obey Kirk's orders as they would a real captain, but anyone who objects to the situation has every right to ask for a transfer.

*Look at Nemesis, for example. Picard saved Earth in that film (it was clear that Shinzon would have destroyed Earth if he could have gotten near it), yet Starfleet didn't make him Admiral of the Fleet, did they? Of course in *that* case, they could have, since Picard was already a Captain anyway.

 

[Omega_Glory]

Giving cadet Kirk the fleet flagship sets a pretty serious precedent. In this alternate universe, anyone can be a captain. Sulu, Chekov, and Scotty all made it possible for Kirk to do what he did. Chekov and Sulu both saved Kirk from certain death. And without Scotty, he wouldn't have even been on the Enterprise to finish the job. So, perhaps Starfleet should give these guys new ships too, eh? And Scotty's new bridge could have two chairs so his little sidekick could join him....

No matter how you try to justify the promotion, it is simply nonsensical.

 

[Jeri]

Babaganoosh, only a jerk would call the individual who saved the planet a pissant upstart, handed something on a silver platter.

Benjamin Finney would do that. There's the guy you're talking about. Someone with a serious personality disorder.

 

[Islander]

*Look at Nemesis, for example. Picard saved Earth in that film (it was clear that Shinzon would have destroyed Earth if he could have gotten near it), yet Starfleet didn't make him Admiral of the Fleet, did they? Of course in *that* case, they could have, since Picard was already a Captain anyway.

But then Data saved Picard who had saved Earth. Wouldn't that make him an even greater savior? So he should be Admiral, but then again he's dead...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Babaganoosh, only a jerk would call the individual who saved the planet a pissant upstart, handed something on a silver platter.

Of course saving the planet is an achievement to be rewarded - just not like this. Promotions take years of work - not luck - to earn.

Give Kirk a medal. Graduate him as a full Lieutenant. Do something, anything, that actually makes logical SENSE.

Especially since Kirk didn't save the planet all by himself. He did it alongside the crew of the Enterprise.

Benjamin Finney would do that. There's the guy you're talking about. Someone with a serious personality disorder.

Ah, I see, I raise an objection to one plot point, and that means I have a personality disorder? This gets better and better!

 

[Jeri]

Picard doesn't want to be Admiral either. It's not a gift.

 

[Jeri]

Babaganoosh, only a jerk would call the individual who saved the planet a pissant upstart, handed something on a silver platter.

Of course saving the planet is an achievement to be rewarded - just not like this...

Yeah...you're incorrect. It's the greatest service and Earthling could provide. The person would be given any thing they wanted.

 

[Green Shirt]

Maybe no captain wanted him as First Officer? Too much trouble...

They'd run out of escape pods eventually...

They could always beam him out into space.

 

[Jeri]

Your edit

Ah, I see, I raise an objection to one plot point, and that means I have a personality disorder? This gets better and better!

You do not work with Jim Kirk and have not called him that. Please note your own post was subjunctive mode.

 

[J.T.B.]

The nuts and bolts of commanding a starship can be learned pretty quick, with a supportive crew -- which they certainly would be.

Interesting... It takes fifteen to twenty years to make a commanding officer (commander rank) of a frigate-size naval vessel today. Why do you think commanding a faster-than-light starship would be so much easier?

Had he not been in Starfleet, then they would have given him whatever else he wanted. They gave him a captaincy, because that is what he wanted.

Your notion of using promotions as that kind of reward have historically proven to be very impractical. The skills needed to accomplish a small mission, however heroic, have little to do with those required to manage an operation as complex as a starship.

The only lower ranks who would resent him being made captain after doing so are not worth a spit. It's they whom the service does not need.

That is not realistic. Bright, accomplished, motivated people who had paid their dues would quite understandably be resentful that someone of less experience and attainment had been placed above them in professional standing. Sure, he saved the day, but who can say that none of the people he leapfrogged would have done as well in the same situation?

--Justin