Requesting details on "The Wire"

[Elemental]

Once again, I come to Trek BBS for opinions on the next show I'm considering watching. I've heard good things, and when I see comments like "Best drama series in the history of TV" from sources like MSNBC, it piques my interest. I get the sense that each season is unique in the main source of dramatic focus. Is this a positive factor for the series?

Some of my favourite series include Babylon 5, Lost, The West Wing, ER, and Heroes. I love shows with epic scope, unpredictability, fascinating characters, long story arcs, and great music. While I do enjoy unperfect characters, I've learned that I'm not as drawn in when the protagonists have too much "evil" associated with them such as in The Sopranos or Dexter. Would this show meet my expectations?

Please fill me in on the series' pros and cons avoiding spoilers.

 

[Lindley]

It's got strong characters, that's for sure. Unfortunately my watching of it has stalled for now; since I finally got past graduation, maybe now's a good time to resume.

It knows it's an HBO show and is perhaps a touch heavier than necessary on the profanity, but if that doesn't bother you then it's pretty good. Definite emphasis on drama; this isn't an adventure show. Lots of gray area.

Stringer Bell is one of the better-realized bad guys I've seen on TV, for sure.

Not really a fan of the theme song, though. I usually skip the titles (they're *really* long).

 

[nevermore]

While I do enjoy unperfect characters, I've learned that I'm not as drawn in when the protagonists have too much "evil" associated with them such as in The Sopranos or Dexter. Would this show meet my expectations?

This would unquestionably present a problem. The Wire gives equal treatment to the "bad" guys and the "good" guys and they are almost all portrayed with a good deal of "evil" associated with them. That's a large part of the point of the show.

It's a fantastic feat of the television medium, but if this is likely to create a major problem for you, then you may want to give it a pass, unfortunately.

 

[IndyJones]

Please fill me in on the series' pros and cons avoiding spoilers.

I really like this show. I'm one episode away from finishing the fourth out of five seasons, and this is easily my favorite yet.

Each season is pretty self contained and is more like a miniseries than a traditional season.

It's true there's lots of profanity, but it fits the characters and doesn't bother me in the slighteset.

I'd say go for it. Right now. Stop reading and go pick it up.

...I say that with the caveat that Flamingliberal is completely right. I just think that the show is good enough that you should gave it a shot, rather than just dismissing out of hand for that reason.

Not really a fan of the theme song, though. I usually skip the titles (they're *really* long).

<Indy Warbles> Way down in the hooooooole </Indy Warbles>

I completely agree.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The show is very compelling. It presents most sides equally. There are criminals (I'm not going to call them bad guys, too superficial) who are presented sympathetically. But, at the same time, if the character is a sociopath, they're not going to sugarcoat that.

The pros are the characters and the overall story. My only complaint is they do take a really long time to get the story going. I don't mind a buildup, but it sometimes feels like it takes a quarter of the season to even know what the point of the season is.

 

[hyzmarca]

The moral of The Wire, ultimately, is that all bureaucracy is innately evil and no real good can be done within it's confines. The whole thing is a raging rant against the inability of the government to deal with even the most basic socioeconomic problems in television series form. And it's a good one.

There are no real bad guys in The Wire, there are only bad institutions. The police department, city hall, the school system, the criminal organizations, and even the setvedores' union are all plainly and blatantly evil organizations populated by plainly good people. The dysfunction comes not from anyone within the organization, but from the bureaucracy and the politics. These organizations were not corrupted and are not corruptible, rather, they were born that way, it is their nature. And they simply tempt and corrupt and ultimately destroy and throw away any idealist who tries to use them for any sort of good.

The only people who can survive the corrupt system are those who are able to put aside their idealism and their empathy and do their job without concern for the suffering around them. The only people who can thrive are those few amoral individuals who know how to game the system for their own profit and are willing to do so.

The Wire chronicles the total, complete, and unmitigated failure of all those who want to make the city of Baltimore a better place. The victories, while many, are all Pyrrhic. Their losses far outweigh their gains. Meanwhile the few individuals who are truly villainous find that their defeats are simply avenues to greater victory and greater success. And despite it all, the gears of bureaucracy keep on turning, preventing any real change. Everybody is a cog in the bureaucratic machine, the only choice they ever get is what kind of cog they want to be. The little cogs persevere unnoticed, the big cogs get all the money and all the power, and the squeaky cogs get removed, replaced, and tossed in the garbage.

It's essentially a huge rumination on bureaucratic dysfunction through the eyes of people who really do want to make a difference but are beaten by the system at every turn.

It's sort of like Angel Season 5 without magic or demons in that respect.

And it is very, very good. It's well written, well-acted, well-directed, well-everythinged. Excellently-everythinged, really. It's made by a guy who knows Baltimore and it's institutions with the intimacy lover, and who takes great pleasure in drawing detailed pictures the city's metaphorical rectal polyps for us.

 

[Elemental]

While I do enjoy unperfect characters, I've learned that I'm not as drawn in when the protagonists have too much "evil" associated with them such as in The Sopranos or Dexter. Would this show meet my expectations?

This would unquestionably present a problem. The Wire gives equal treatment to the "bad" guys and the "good" guys and they are almost all portrayed with a good deal of "evil" associated with them. That's a large part of the point of the show.

It's a fantastic feat of the television medium, but if this is likely to create a major problem for you, then you may want to give it a pass, unfortunately.

I did know there was a lot of grey so that's why I bring it up. I definitely enjoy the "grey", but when every episode involves you having to watch your protagonists murder someone (Dexter) or commit adultery (Sopranos) I start to lose interest. Shows such as ER where you have essentially good people who make mistakes is probably my happy medium. I kind of get the sense that The Wire is probably somewhere between ER and Sopranos in this respect.

I read on one of the DVD boxes that season 1 is essentially one mystery spread over the course of the season. This interests me because I've always been a fan of gradually unfolding mysteries that the viewer can attempt to solve. Is this true of the way the seasons for the show generally are?

I might have to watch a few episodes and then make a decision on whether to make a big purchase.

 

[Lindley]

I read on one of the DVD boxes that season 1 is essentially one mystery spread over the course of the season. This interests me because I've always been a fan of gradually unfolding mysteries that the viewer can attempt to solve. Is this true of the way the seasons for the show generally are?

More or less, although I'd say it's less mystery and more case. It's as much about building evidence as it is about actually figuring out who's doing what.

 

[sidious618]

Fantastic show. However, similar to B5, you need to give it the first half of the season for it to warm up to you.

 

[The Master of Tarquin Hill]

The moral of The Wire, ultimately, is that all bureaucracy is innately evil and no real good can be done within it's confines. The whole thing is a raging rant against the inability of the government to deal with even the most basic socioeconomic problems in television series form. And it's a good one.

There are no real bad guys in The Wire, there are only bad institutions. The police department, city hall, the school system, the criminal organizations, and even the setvedores' union are all plainly and blatantly evil organizations populated by plainly good people. The dysfunction comes not from anyone within the organization, but from the bureaucracy and the politics. These organizations were not corrupted and are not corruptible, rather, they were born that way, it is their nature. And they simply tempt and corrupt and ultimately destroy and throw away any idealist who tries to use them for any sort of good.

The only people who can survive the corrupt system are those who are able to put aside their idealism and their empathy and do their job without concern for the suffering around them. The only people who can thrive are those few amoral individuals who know how to game the system for their own profit and are willing to do so.

The Wire chronicles the total, complete, and unmitigated failure of all those who want to make the city of Baltimore a better place. The victories, while many, are all Pyrrhic. Their losses far outweigh their gains. Meanwhile the few individuals who are truly villainous find that their defeats are simply avenues to greater victory and greater success. And despise it all, the gears of bureaucracy keep on turning, preventing any real change. Everybody is a cog in the bureaucratic machine, the only choice they ever get is what kind of cog they want to be. The little cogs persevere unnoticed, the big cogs get all the money and all the power, and the squeaky cogs get removed, replaced, and tossed in the garbage.

It's essentially a huge rumination on bureaucratic dysfunction through the eyes of people who really do want to make a difference but are beaten by the system at every turn.

It's sort of like Angel Season 5 without magic or demons in that respect.

And it is very, very good. It's well written, well-acted, well-directed, well-everythinged. Excellently-everythinged, really. It's made by a guy who knows Baltimore and it's institutions with the intimacy lover, and who takes great pleasure in drawing detailed pictures the city's metaphorical rectal polyps for us.

Interesting review. It very closely mirrors a recent interview of Simon by Bill Moyers on his PBS show. Did you see it? Most especially interesting is your use of the word "cog" which Simon came back to again and again in the interview.

 

[Star Wolf]

While I do enjoy unperfect characters, I've learned that I'm not as drawn in when the protagonists have too much evil associated with them such as in The Sopranos or Dexter. Would this show meet my expectations?

This would unquestionably present a problem. The Wire gives equal treatment to the bad guys and the good guys and they are almost all portrayed with a good deal of evil associated with them. That's a large part of the point of the show.

It's a fantastic feat of the television medium, but if this is likely to create a major problem for you, then you may want to give it a pass, unfortunately.

I did know there was a lot of grey so that's why I bring it up. I definitely enjoy the grey, but when every episode involves you having to watch your protagonists murder someone (Dexter) or commit adultery (Sopranos) I start to lose interest. Shows such as ER where you have essentially good people who make mistakes is probably my happy medium. I kind of get the sense that The Wire is probably somewhere between ER and Sopranos in this respect.

I read on one of the DVD boxes that season 1 is essentially one mystery spread over the course of the season. This interests me because I've always been a fan of gradually unfolding mysteries that the viewer can attempt to solve. Is this true of the way the seasons for the show generally are?

I might have to watch a few episodes and then make a decision on whether to make a big purchase.

The shows don't solve a mystery. They follow the target of the Baltimore PD's Major Case Squad. After the second episode you realize that everybody knows who did it, untill the vacants storyline that is, its just a matter of building a case to get a conviction, or better yet a plea bargin.

Nobody is evil in this world. They may fall on the wrong side of the black/white greyline because that is all they have known since they were 10 years old. The evil of the cops comes in the form of looking the other way because order is more important then the written law. And shockingly for TV heros not endangering all around him to take out the bad guy.

Apathy is the story from the very first pre-credit sequence where the motive for Snot's murder is discussed to the last montage scenes where a quick update is given on all the cops, hoppers, longshoremen, teachers and politicians is given as the show wraps up.

 

[Deckerd]

I like the way the stories of the criminals play out alongside the police, so you see both sides of the story. I also like the way you find yourself starting to empathise with the criminals until they kill someone and then you're forced to re-evaluate everything.

 

[Angel4576]

Be prepared for a slow-burn, but ultimately, it's well worth it.

At the first attempt I was unconvinced of The Wire's brilliance. Upon picking it up for a second time however, I'm now well-since won over.

A truly fantastic series, largely for the reasons that others have eloquently opined.

 

[Elemental]

The moral of The Wire, ultimately, is that all bureaucracy is innately evil and no real good can be done within it's confines. The whole thing is a raging rant against the inability of the government to deal with even the most basic socioeconomic problems in television series form. And it's a good one.

There are no real bad guys in The Wire, there are only bad institutions. The police department, city hall, the school system, the criminal organizations, and even the setvedores' union are all plainly and blatantly evil organizations populated by plainly good people. The dysfunction comes not from anyone within the organization, but from the bureaucracy and the politics. These organizations were not corrupted and are not corruptible, rather, they were born that way, it is their nature. And they simply tempt and corrupt and ultimately destroy and throw away any idealist who tries to use them for any sort of good.

The only people who can survive the corrupt system are those who are able to put aside their idealism and their empathy and do their job without concern for the suffering around them. The only people who can thrive are those few amoral individuals who know how to game the system for their own profit and are willing to do so.

The Wire chronicles the total, complete, and unmitigated failure of all those who want to make the city of Baltimore a better place. The victories, while many, are all Pyrrhic. Their losses far outweigh their gains. Meanwhile the few individuals who are truly villainous find that their defeats are simply avenues to greater victory and greater success. And despite it all, the gears of bureaucracy keep on turning, preventing any real change. Everybody is a cog in the bureaucratic machine, the only choice they ever get is what kind of cog they want to be. The little cogs persevere unnoticed, the big cogs get all the money and all the power, and the squeaky cogs get removed, replaced, and tossed in the garbage.

It's essentially a huge rumination on bureaucratic dysfunction through the eyes of people who really do want to make a difference but are beaten by the system at every turn.

It's sort of like Angel Season 5 without magic or demons in that respect.

And it is very, very good. It's well written, well-acted, well-directed, well-everythinged. Excellently-everythinged, really. It's made by a guy who knows Baltimore and it's institutions with the intimacy lover, and who takes great pleasure in drawing detailed pictures the city's metaphorical rectal polyps for us.

Thanks for the detailed summary. Not sure I'm thrilled about it being a very cynical view overall and that victories are minimal. Sounds depressing...

 

[Star Wolf]

Its only depressing if you are expecting a Miami Vice, Bad Boys, Dirty Harry solution to the one drug organization targeted by the police.

 

[Goliath]

My advice: just watch it. Watch the whole first season.

It's a great show, but it's not to everyone's taste. It's very naturalistic, and it can be pretty downbeat. Some people consider it slow and talky. Some people just don't like cop shows.

Personally, I found it fascinating. It's got some of the most interesting characters I've ever seen, and some of the best dialogue I've ever heard. David Simon is the Patrick O'Brian of TV crime drama. (Yes, I'm aware of how strange that sounds, but it's true)

So, rent the first season, and watch it. It's only thirteen episodes.

If you're like me, you'll immediately rush off to get the next four seasons.

If not--well, no big loss.

Just be sure to watch the whole season. As someone said above: it's a slow burn.

 

[Star Wolf]

If you saw Homicide: Life on the Street some names stayed red on the board. That or the Law & Order ADAs losing half of its cases is the level of depression on the show. Its not BSG.

 

[mimic]

There's also a surprising amount of humor. It's certainly not a "happy" show but it's not completely bleak either.

 

[Star Wolf]

And characters grow. One of the bad cops of season 1 becomes Real Police by season 4 Only one character stagnated in my opinion, it became surreal as he walked the streets in his bathrobe looking for milk for his breakfast cereal.

 

[Goliath]

Perhaps.

But he was just so damn cool.