Would the Timeline be THAT Different?

[siskokid888]

I was thinking about this after my second viewing - and came to the conclusion that most of the TOS episodes could still pretty much take place as they did even with the changes that took place in this movie. A few, mostly that delt with the character's pasts, would be most effected. The events of "Where No Man Has gone Before" would be changed, as Gary Mitchell is not in the equation, although the events are not precluded from occuring. "Shore Leave"'s Finnegan would be changed as well ("Cupcake", maybe?) The biggest change would be for "Amok Time", for obvious reasons. Actually, the new circumstances might add to that story, in that Spock's pre-arranged marriage is now all important for Vulcans in their depleted state, and throw in the Spock-Uhura relationship. This could lead to the Spock-Sarek animosity that comes to the fore in "Journey to Babel". That ep changes as well, due to Amanda. Another character (Kirk maybe?) would have to tweak Spock's conscience. "The Cage" could have happened before these events, maybe Pike and Spock visited Talos IV prior, and Pike's accident, depicted in "The Menagerie" is still to occur. As time goes on, the difference between the two timelines seems to become less and less, so that by the time of TNG and DS9, they could be almost indistinguishable from the original, maybe with just minor differences. The universe has not been changed all that much, at least if you look at it that way.

 

[Islander]

Yes, an alternate timeline is a parallel timeline meaning mostly similar. A point made by the movie describe destiny, as some things are just meant to be. The crew was meant to be together, Kirk was meant to be Captain...

The point, however, is that is CAN still exist (thus be accepted by purist) but will permit NEW stories instead.

 

[Jeri]

That some things are meant to be in all time lines is a major theme of the movie.

 

[Mr. B]

That some things are meant to be in all time lines is a major theme of the movie.

Exactly. Kirk and Spock's friendship... destiny. The existence of the Vulcan civilization... not so much.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The only way that Cage/Menagerie could still happen is if Pike returned to command the Enterprise after he recovers from his injuries.

Which is certainly possible, given that Kirk is specifically said to only be a relief captain for Pike.

 

[propita]

Well, actually, there could be LOTS of changes--because the Enterprise group is together far earlier--so TOS stuff is years away (gee, almost a decade in the future).

There were already differences because the Kelvin put a different emphasis in StarFleet--and now with Vulcan gone, Earth will likely have even greater control/influence in the Federation than before, which was already substantial. And...the whole dynamic with the Klingons and Romulans will be different. Tons of Romulans left--unless, like Vulcan, there's only 10,000(?). If few Romulans, the Klingons will likely step in. They are a dispossessed people who could do any number of things: fade away, merge with the remaining Vulcans, become "pirates" of a sort.

And then there's the fact that 47 Klingon ships were destroyed. They'll re-arm/re-build, but will they become more belligerent (not wanting to appear weak after getting their asses kicked while the Federation defeated Nero with TWO ships) or will they be more amenable to alliance?

 

[jstimson]

Let's not forget things that will happen no matter how things change for our current heroes.

V'ger is still going to show up. So is the whale probe. Nothing that has happened now will change those events from happening.

Those 2 are the first that spring to mind, but I am sure there are a multitude of others that are based on actions and events totally outside what happens to the Federation from this point on.

Space amoeba.
Doomsday machine.
...... etc.

 

[Bobatiel]

V'ger is still going to show up.

Well I'm sure writers can come up with almost anything.

For example, the Narada destroyed 47 Klingons ships. That could very well affect the Klingons' encounter with V'Ger. Maybe they could even stop it. Who knows?

 

[adamisme]

i don't think the timeline will change at all really, maybe some things will happen earlier than they did in the original universe and perhaps with no planet Vulcan some things may not happen

 

[siskokid888]

^^The Romulan Empire is still there, as Romulus is not destroyed until the TNG/DS9 time period. And I think the events of "The Cage", as I said, could have happend already, either on an earlier incarnation of the Enterprise, or on another ship, as Pike as apparently been a starship commander for awhile, and Spock has served with him. But the differences in the time frame (Kirk has command of the Enterprise at an earlier age, and the rest of the crew has convened earlier then TOS) would definetly change some of the occurances. It could also occur that Kirk and the Ent patrol the Federation for 4 or 5 years, before being sent on the 5 year exploration mission, which would more closely match the time frame of TOS.

 

[Dukhat]

Let's not forget things that will happen no matter how things change for our current heroes.

V'ger is still going to show up. So is the whale probe. Nothing that has happened now will change those events from happening.

Those 2 are the first that spring to mind, but I am sure there are a multitude of others that are based on actions and events totally outside what happens to the Federation from this point on.

Space amoeba.
Doomsday machine.
...... etc.

You're looking at this too literally. I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you. Just that things aren't going to be as clear-cut as that.

V'ger and the whale probe will not show up if the writers don't want/need/care for them to show up. Same with Khan. He's not going to show up because it's highly doubtful the writers are going to go in that direction. That was the whole point of changing the timeline: so that they can make new stories, not retread old ideas.

 

[Danoz]

People here really don't understand how fragile a timeline is. Something as simple as a doorbell could have prevented your conception entirely. Goodbye, you no longer exist. Sure, your mother may still get pregnant, but not with you. People seem to forget how instrumental and "behind-the-scenes" the Vulcans are in the United Federation of Planets-- and seeing as how the war with the Klingons came very close to being lost, who knows? In this reality, Picard will not exist. EVERYBODY'S LIFE was somehow effected sparking an entirely new stem of marriages, conceptions and experiences. This new universe will ultimately be populated with different people. So, YES. It will be different... unrecognizable.

 

[siskokid888]

^While that could indeed be true, I don't think its the only possible outcome. Remember Q talking to Picard in "Tapestry", when he says the change in Picard's history "will not cause worlds to end or galaxies to collide?" (or something like that). It could also happen that many things will move in the same direction - time will continue to flow, but the stream's direction may be altered slightly. Maybe so little that you would have to look hard to notice.

 

[Kelthaz]

^ That's because he's Q. Picard originally objected to changing the timeline until Q promised him it wouldn't affect anything but his own life.

 

[Islander]

^While that could indeed be true, I don't think its the only possible outcome. Remember Q talking to Picard in "Tapestry", when he says the change in Picard's history "will not cause worlds to end or galaxies to collide?" (or something like that). It could also happen that many things will move in the same direction - time will continue to flow, but the stream's direction may be altered slightly. Maybe so little that you would have to look hard to notice.

I agree with the general concept that parallel timeline and extremely close to one another but this may not be the best example given it only is a Q manipulate scenario.

 

[Mr Nighttime]

Doesn't matter what happens now. When the Doomsday weapon arrives, all nuSpock has to do is call up Spock Prime and ask for advice. I wonder how much of a temptation that would be and if the writers will now figure new probs must be created to keep SP from saving the day.

 

[CaptainDonovin]

Wonder if Tuvok's parents or grand parents survived in this timeline. Since he was an ensign on Sulu's Excelsior I would bet one of his folks were alive.

 

[stonester1]

Doesn't matter what happens now. When the Doomsday weapon arrives, all nuSpock has to do is call up Spock Prime and ask for advice. I wonder how much of a temptation that would be and if the writers will now figure new probs must be created to keep SP from saving the day.

Knowing Spock and his sense of ethics, he probably would keep quiet about it.

 

[Danoz]

^While that could indeed be true, I don't think its the only possible outcome. Remember Q talking to Picard in "Tapestry", when he says the change in Picard's history "will not cause worlds to end or galaxies to collide?" (or something like that). It could also happen that many things will move in the same direction - time will continue to flow, but the stream's direction may be altered slightly. Maybe so little that you would have to look hard to notice.

This isn't about one officer not receiving a promotion... this is about billions of Federation lives not existing-- this would be like going to 1930 and blowing up the entire United Kingdom, then saying... "things may not be so different..."

 

[Islander]

Doesn't matter what happens now. When the Doomsday weapon arrives, all nuSpock has to do is call up Spock Prime and ask for advice. I wonder how much of a temptation that would be and if the writers will now figure new probs must be created to keep SP from saving the day.

"You have reach Spock's mailbox, please leave a message after the tone", "Beep!"
"Eh, this is the Federation, there's a big probe threatening Earth, please call us back at...", "Mailbox full"