'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XI

[Tentacle]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

but how glad are you that the new kirk kept his shirt on this time?

What are you talking about? We did see him without his shirt, wearing only his tighty whities.

hmmm ur right, but he wasnt sweaty and all greased up.

greasy and shinny is what attracts.

 

[cubbie]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

Well, I found Chris Pine to be very attractive, with or without cloths. I didn't need the shine, the lens flares were plenty.

 

[Jeri]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

The Enterprise is a ship load of young hotties. How can that be bad.

 

[Trilliam]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

I would say something against that but in an odd twist of fate, I am currently drinking te and have scones. And I'm supposed to be in the haggis territory.....

Darn, all this talk of scones - I'm going to have to go make some now.

RE:Uhuru and sexism. Was Lt Uhuru getting the same pay and conditions as a male Lt for performing similar officicial duties (I can remember when women did NOT get the same pay for same job)? Did she have the same promotional prospects as males of equivalent rank, training and experience? If the answer to those questions is "yes", where's the discrimination?

Getting changed out of work clothes into civvies after work in her own quarters ..OMG call the censors!!! There was a comment earlier about the order she took her clothes off (ie stripping off her outer clothes leaving her in her bra and undies)... Look guys, I don't know about other women here, but unless I'm going to have a shower, I leave my underthings on, when changing out of my work clothes. Qnd pretty much the same order she did - top first then bottoms. Really there is too much being read into this.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

He probably goes behind her with Febreeze and Lysol wipes.

It's probably Febreeze Classic and New Lysol.

Either way...proof positive someone eats too much Mexican.

 

[Overgeeked]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

My mother was part of the TOS's target audience for Uhura, and let me say this. It was the FIRST TIME EVER (outside of Juliet which I think premiered after) that a black woman was seen on television NOT being a maid, NOT caring for other people's children, NOT struggling w/o an education.

These dang feminists JUST DONT GET IT. With TOS Uhura even being considered to be competent (even as a space phone operator), was amazing to so many people who were very used to being ignored. Also, this part is huge:

TOS Uhura was FACTUALLY ATTRACTIVE. First time ever for women of color in a main stream audience! This hit home for so many people. She was also the lone female breaking up the sausage fest, she had to be educated enough to be in space, she was not delicate / weak/ or stupid, and yes she was there was a looker too.

Girls big and small all shapes and sizes got to see that yes, you can be pretty, smart, competent, independent, and in space all at once. So what she was a minor character, that doesn't mean that she WASN'T on the bridge.

I don't even want to get into what Nicholle went through behind the scenes.

But this was so important to so many people, like Dr. Mae Jemison. I dare someone to name the episode she got to appear in cause Star Trek's Uhura was her inspiration. BTW if you read her bio, it should sound familiar. Talk about the ultimate Trekkie, lol recite made up languages all you want but most don't actually get out into space.

My complaint is that in this film, the character wasn't pushed farther. She's still "just" on the bridge being a phone operator in space. That's not a call to change the whole thing and make her the captain instead, but why not leave her in charge? Even a throw away line like, "Uhura, you have the con," would be a great step. Something, anything.

In the 60s having her even on the show was monumental, that she was capable, smart, and happened to be attractive (to some) was great. But women's lib has left her far behind at this point. Even now women can be soldiers, getting closer to the front lines everyday (if they want). Women are CEOs and have many positions of great power and influence. But poor Uhura is still just an answering machine with feet. Check out Sigourney Weaver's rant in Galaxy Quest. "I know my job is stupid. I just repeat everything the computers say, but it's my job. So I'm going to do it well."

Chalk another one up to the dumbing down of Trek. TOS pushed boundaries and touched on social issues, while Trek '09 just rehashes and avoids boundaries.

 

[firehawk12]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

All Trek post TOS has been stuck in the 60s era of representation anyway. DS9 was probably the series that tried to update the social commentary to fit the 90s, and even then it's somewhat problematic.

 

[Lumen]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

Has this been posted yet:

http://firefox.org/news/articles/2794/1/Opinion-Women-in-the-New-Star-Trek-Movie/Page1.html

A different feminist point of view, and much more of the way I saw Uhura in the movie than the opinion at the start of this thread.

"She's focused, she doesn't muck about, and she's hella smart and awesome at her job. This to me is a good thing. But just because she has a love interest, this does not in my eyes reduce her to the role of nothing but a love interest."

Brilliant article - thanks for the link.

" In both Sulu and Uhura's cases, Pike picks them because they can do what he needs. He recognizes they are excellent resources, and he will use any and all resources he has to hand. That's not feminism--that's gender parity. Because Uhura's expertise is in the realm of "brainy" and not "brawny", mebbe it's not as visually cool. But for me, as a fangirl, I actually chalk being a kickass xenolinguist up there with samurai sword fight. It's not as flashy, and it's not an action set piece, but it is still cool."

This is exactly how I feel too.

This article said what I tried to say a couple (dozen) pages ago:

I think a big part of Uhura's role is, like Sulu and Chekov, to be the model Academy grads and represent the side of Starfleet that Kirk isn't and doesn't want to be. You can't be maverick without foils to show how maverick you are being, and Uhura is that in the Kobayashi Maru.

It also made a bunch of other really good points.

Feministing is a good blog, but one shouldn't take everything there to be representative of all of feminism. I think it's perfectly consistent to hold feminist views and have no problem with the way Uhura was portrayed in this film.

 

[Overgeeked]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

All Trek post TOS has been stuck in the 60s era of representation anyway. DS9 was probably the series that tried to update the social commentary to fit the 90s, and even then it's somewhat problematic.

No and yes.

In Voyage Home there was the female captain, she was African-American if I remember correctly. Then Avery Brooks on DS9. Janeway on Voyager. In TNG, the first Trill episode had Bev Crusher falling for the Trill host, only to be put off by the idea of loving a woman when the male host dies and the symbiont goes into a female. She says something along the lines of "we're still working on some social issues," or some such. That was poorly handled. But who can forget the dude in the short skirt in TNG S1? Never saw those gams again. There was supposed to be an AIDs related episode in TNG but it was scrapped. Something similar appeared in the ENT Vulcan episodes with the mind meld disease.

So no, Trek hasn't been stuck in the 60s since from TOS till DS9 (unless you mean the mind set of free love); and yes, DS9 brought in some 90s mentality (as did TNG and VOY), but then ENT took it to the 21st century (kinda, in places).

 

[Amaris]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

My mother was part of the TOS's target audience for Uhura, and let me say this. It was the FIRST TIME EVER (outside of Juliet which I think premiered after) that a black woman was seen on television NOT being a maid, NOT caring for other people's children, NOT struggling w/o an education.

These dang feminists JUST DONT GET IT. With TOS Uhura even being considered to be competent (even as a space phone operator), was amazing to so many people who were very used to being ignored. Also, this part is huge:

TOS Uhura was FACTUALLY ATTRACTIVE. First time ever for women of color in a main stream audience! This hit home for so many people. She was also the lone female breaking up the sausage fest, she had to be educated enough to be in space, she was not delicate / weak/ or stupid, and yes she was there was a looker too.

Girls big and small all shapes and sizes got to see that yes, you can be pretty, smart, competent, independent, and in space all at once. So what she was a minor character, that doesn't mean that she WASN'T on the bridge.

I don't even want to get into what Nicholle went through behind the scenes.

But this was so important to so many people, like Dr. Mae Jemison. I dare someone to name the episode she got to appear in cause Star Trek's Uhura was her inspiration. BTW if you read her bio, it should sound familiar. Talk about the ultimate Trekkie, lol recite made up languages all you want but most don't actually get out into space.

My complaint is that in this film, the character wasn't pushed farther. She's still "just" on the bridge being a phone operator in space. That's not a call to change the whole thing and make her the captain instead, but why not leave her in charge? Even a throw away line like, "Uhura, you have the con," would be a great step. Something, anything.

In the 60s having her even on the show was monumental, that she was capable, smart, and happened to be attractive (to some) was great. But women's lib has left her far behind at this point. Even now women can be soldiers, getting closer to the front lines everyday (if they want). Women are CEOs and have many positions of great power and influence. But poor Uhura is still just an answering machine with feet. Check out Sigourney Weaver's rant in Galaxy Quest. "I know my job is stupid. I just repeat everything the computers say, but it's my job. So I'm going to do it well."

Chalk another one up to the dumbing down of Trek. TOS pushed boundaries and touched on social issues, while Trek '09 just rehashes and avoids boundaries.

I disagree. Uhura was integral to key plot points in the storyline. She is also shown to be a strong, independent woman without making a big deal out of being a strong, independent woman. Chalk one up for progress! J.J. Abrams treated Uhura like a normal, intelligent human being, not like a black woman on the bridge.

J.

 

[smegger56]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

Get this people. yes, Uhura took her top off to reveal her bra, but..

Kirk was in his undies.

List of things in Trek for the female viewer:

Picard on shore leave on Risa (whatever) in trunks.
Kirk with his top off... multiple times.
Male characters being seduced and over powered by Female characters... many times.
Female characters in a position of power and authority (though, the less said about janeway the better IMO).

So bloody what if uhura took her top off? How many films have depicted men in similar fashion? Quite a few to get the pulses of woman running. Or have some of you forgot that.

It works both ways people, especially in todays world. Good grief

 

[trampledamage]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

I really think, purely to help the issue of equality you understand, but I really think McCoy needs to take his top off in the next movie.

 

[seniorsleuth]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

Has this been posted yet:

http://firefox.org/news/articles/2794/1/Opinion-Women-in-the-New-Star-Trek-Movie/Page1.html

A different feminist point of view, and much more of the way I saw Uhura in the movie than the opinion at the start of this thread.

"She's focused, she doesn't muck about, and she's hella smart and awesome at her job. This to me is a good thing. But just because she has a love interest, this does not in my eyes reduce her to the role of nothing but a love interest."

Brilliant article - thanks for the link.

" In both Sulu and Uhura's cases, Pike picks them because they can do what he needs. He recognizes they are excellent resources, and he will use any and all resources he has to hand. That's not feminism--that's gender parity. Because Uhura's expertise is in the realm of "brainy" and not "brawny", mebbe it's not as visually cool. But for me, as a fangirl, I actually chalk being a kickass xenolinguist up there with samurai sword fight. It's not as flashy, and it's not an action set piece, but it is still cool."

This is exactly how I feel too.

This article said what I tried to say a couple (dozen) pages ago:

I think a big part of Uhura's role is, like Sulu and Chekov, to be the model Academy grads and represent the side of Starfleet that Kirk isn't and doesn't want to be. You can't be maverick without foils to show how maverick you are being, and Uhura is that in the Kobayashi Maru.

It also made a bunch of other really good points.

Feministing is a good blog, but one shouldn't take everything there to be representative of all of feminism. I think it's perfectly consistent to hold feminist views and have no problem with the way Uhura was portrayed in this film.

As many of the responses on the same site showed. While I don't think this film pushed the boundaries as much as it could have, it has really laid the groundwork to do so.

The biggest advancement was Uhura herself. Her skill set has been enhanced, and I am counting on it being used more in planetary exploration going forward. She clearly knows what she wants on a professional level, and on a personal one, and it's not the guy exhibiting typical macho behavior. A very important message was sent there, especially to the men in the audience identifying more with Kirk and thinking that every attractive woman should fall at his feet.

And, in the next movie, I can do without the minis. I think it was okay as a homage to TOS but it really does advertise that there are some things women shouldn't be doing on the ship, simply because their clothing won't allow them to do them. In the original it worked because the women weren't allowed to do much, but that will change in this series.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

I really think, purely to help the issue of equality you understand, but I really think McCoy needs to take his top off in the next movie.

I second the notion. And just to make sure we're on an even parlance, I suggest we get a look at his skivvies.

 

[trampledamage]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

And, in the next movie, I can do without the minis. I think it was okay as a homage to TOS but it really does advertise that there are some things women shouldn't be doing on the ship, simply because their clothing won't allow them to do them. In the original it worked because the women weren't allowed to do much, but that will change in this series.

Other than hand-stands, what would a mini-skirt stop you from doing?

(I'm not being snarky, I just thought about it - because I've never worn one - and while a long skirt would stop you doing quite a bit, a mini-skirt won't get in the way)

 

[Crusher Disciple]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

I read on Wikipedia that the miniskirt was supposedly invented (in part) to allow women to run for the bus without being encumbered with too much material at the knee.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

Boy, these ladies sure don't get tired of looking for shit everywhere.

If this matters to you, you don't have to expend enough energy "looking for shit" to get tired (of the looking). It's right there in front of you.

Saldana certainly carried off the underwear look more successfully than Pine did. Skinny boy.

Ummm, Zoe's not exactly full-figured.

 

[trampledamage]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

I read on Wikipedia that the miniskirt was supposedly invented (in part) to allow women to run for the bus without being encumbered with too much material at the knee.

Yeah, this I can understand - a fitted knee-length skirt means you can't run or climb very well and longer skirts would get in the way for climbing, but a mini-skirt (especially the non-floaty ones like the ST uniforms) are pretty practical really.

Although like I say, I've never worn one (I don't like skirts that don't cover my ankles) so I could be completely wrong!

 

[seniorsleuth]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

Other than hand-stands, what would a mini-skirt stop you from doing?

(I'm not being snarky, I just thought about it - because I've never worn one - and while a long skirt would stop you doing quite a bit, a mini-skirt won't get in the way)

Anything that requires kicking (necessary for fighting), bending over (fighting or numerous other activities), or which requires one to function in a climate any colder than where I am now (Florida).

Besides, if the males can look good in their tight fitting shirts and pants, so can the women.

As for the mini-skirt, I always understood that it began in England in the sixties, at a time when there were lower sales taxes on children's clothing. Young women started buying skirts from the kids' department in order to save money and it took off after that. This was also a time when women's roles did not encompass many of those that would be hindered by the mini.

 

[Amaris]

Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII

^ I will engage in research and get back with you.

J.