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Spock's Conscience/Should Spock warn _____ about ______?

Re: Spock's Conscience

USS_Triumphant said:
Tachyon Shield said:
USS_Triumphant said:
I hate to agree with Tachyon Shield, especially since he's presenting his case in a bit of an obnoxious fashion,
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No i'm not. :confused:
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Saying "when he's dead?" over and over is a bit obnoxious. Bolding and italicizing it once would have worked as well.

But don't mind that - carry on. For the purposes of this thread so far, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. :bolian:
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I was just trying to make it stand out more because i'd already said a few times that Spock could be dead therefore there'd be no "calling Spock for help" so when someone once again came out with the "calling Spock for help" line I decided repeating the line a few more times might get the msg across. That's not being obnoxious it's just trying to get everyone to see more clearly that this isn't even an argument against the new series. I figured by repeating it several times in one post I wouldn't need to do it over any other posts. ;)
 
Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

Since this is an alternate, parallel timeline to that which Spock Prime originates from,one that was created and changed from the Prime timeline due to Nero's appearance in 2233 and his attack on the Kelvin, and thus not directly Spock Prime's fault, and likewise, out of his hands to restore, Spock Prime has already - in the effort to set things back on as correct a path as possible - played fast and loose with his knowledge of what is to come.

He has apparently come to the logical conclusion that the temporal prime directive can be less sternly followed in his efforts to set things in this alternate universe as close to those of his as to the best of his ability. This is evidenced by his interventions, and his apparent decision to aid the survivors of Vulcan in rebuilding in young Spock's place as he indicated at the end of the film.

This all said and accepted, should he also warn the UFP of a handful of key future threats?

Would it, in a way, not be his responsibility now that he has presumed such duty as to set things on the right track?

There are specific major threats, outside of the run-of-the-mill, that some may argue he is responsible for helping to defeat now that things have changed.

One would be the Star Trek IV Whale Probe.

The reason the original Enterprise crew was able to cope with such threat was related to a series of events which had them on a Klingon Bird of Prey en-route home from Vulcan when the attack occured. Without that specific set of events, the Whale Probe could well be unstopable in this new alternative timeline. So should he not simply provide them with (if they do not have such) the means to travel back in time and the knowledge that the recovery of humpback whales is critical to the future of earth's survivial?

Should Starfleet of 2258 launch a specific mission to recover a pair of humpbacks now, prior to the arrival of the probe -- which Spock could even not mention specifically, simply indicate devastating consequences forthcoming -- the probe itself may not be sent, or may turn around before it impacts the Federation.

Other key threats, such as V'Ger, I believe the Enterprise could well deal with independantly. But such out-of-left-field threats as the Whale Probe... the ability to respond to such was dependant on key circumstances.

The Borg may well be another threat; one which from Enterprise we've learned Starfleet always knew about from Archer's time, but fairly well dismissed and classified. If Spock where to indicate, "they will be a considerable threat to the future" Starfleet could better prepare in general, without specifically alerting the populus of the timeline as to why.
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

Spock Prime would respect the timeline as it is and try to fade into the background somewhere. Get a name change and simply be silent. Besides, if he warned everyone, what fun would that be?
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

There are two reasons why I think the answer to this would be "No."

The first is from a storytelling prespective: it was great to have Nimoy around to pass the torch, but you don't want this new trek universe to be about Old Spock telling the new crew what's coming and making life easier for them.

The second is a variation on the Prime Directive: Spock should not play God in this new universe or try to determine the future of this crew and this Federation. He arrived by accident, and he had to help deal with Nero, who had arrived with him seeking vengeance. Beyond that he should not go out of his way to interfere.

Working to re-establish Vulcan culture is the perfect task for him, since he was indirectly responsable for the planet's destruction in this timeline. Otherwise I do not believe he will play a prominent role.
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

He better tell them and not just about future bad guys but also he needs to spill the beans about all the future technology he has knowledge of.

If Spock Prime refuses then give him a brain slug or two. That will get him talking! :evil:
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

I'm sure Spock Prime's decision not to talk would be based on the fact that an unchallenged civilization will stagnate and die.

OTOH he's already shown a willingness to meddle a bit on the personal level, ensuring that Kirk and Spock become friends.

The solution, or course, is to kill him off in the next movie.
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

No. At least, not directly. For one thing, I highly doubt it'd be widely known that he was, indeed, the same guy as the First Officer of the Enterprise (Quinto-Spock). And it'd break every directive in the book. Making sure that the Federation wasn't destroyed completely by Nero is one thing, warning about, say, Khan or the Klingons is another, as they would have happened anyway.

Also, remember, Spock is getting up there in years, even for a Vulcan. I don't know what the Vulcan equiv. of 78 is, but I have to imagine that Spock is near if not past that. As sad as it is, Spock Prime probably wouldn't be around to tell Kirk not to go on the maiden cruise of the Enterprise-B, for example, or tell the UFP that God's need for a spaceship requires severe questioning.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if he.... implied... some things. Don't know if anybody would listen or anything.

Who knows? Maybe Spock Prime will just fade into the background (it probably all depends on whether Nimoy wants to come back). I just hope that Kurtzman/Orci don't do anything stupid with him, like have him become Saavik's dad or something. :brickwall:
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

There's no risk of paradox, so I don't see why not.
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

Maybe he did during the Mind Probe. Captain Kirk might have a reason to trust his "gut" in the future.
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

He should warn Starfleet about V'Ger, Khan, the whale probe, The Borg, the Dominion, etc.
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

Hurm...That's a toughie. My question is, How do we know for sure the ''Whale Probe, V'ger, The Doomsday machine, KAAAAHHHHNNNNN! are even IN this timeline? If there are an infinite amount of differant realitys out there, then there have got to be some that don't have these threats right? so..how do we know this universe isn't one of those?
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

Too much possibility for canon-driven knuckle-dragging like this with Spock around. I think they need to kill him to really free themselves from the baggage of canon -- I predict he dies in an accident while setting up the new Vulcan colony before he has a chance to speak to anyone about anything like V'Ger or the whale probe.
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

Spock should stay out of the Federation's way.

How about this:
V'Ger was found by the crew of an NX class ship and disabled.
Humped back whales are not extinct.
The Borg were crushed in the Delta Quadrant by The Caretaker.

There. Problems solved. No need for Spock to get his hands dirty with old business. Really, don't you think he has enough to do reestablishing the Vulcan culture? Spock and we are free to do exactly what Abrams expects of us which is to GET OUT OF THAT OLD BOX!

X
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

No, I don't think Spock should give any more information than he already has. He managed to move the course of things to allow the formation of the Enterprise crew in some form we would recognize. That should be enough.

With the possibilities that have come from the curve ball of a new universe, I can't think of a logical reason why Spock Prime would bother to give more than needs to be. Certain things happen in the course of history that shape how the universe is. For Spock to do more than he already has would rob the Federation of its most fundamental of missions.

How can you seek out new life, new civilizations when you're trying to prepare for things that may never happen?

No, Spock Prime should do what he proposed and help rebuild Vulcan while the other Spock trips the light fantastic with Kirk.
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

xman said:
Spock should stay out of the Federation's way.

How about this:
V'Ger was found by the crew of an NX class ship and disabled.
Humped back whales are not extinct.
The Borg were crushed in the Delta Quadrant by The Caretaker.

There. Problems solved. No need for Spock to get his hands dirty with old business. Really, don't you think he has enough to do reestablishing the Vulcan culture? Spock and we are free to do exactly what Abrams expects of us which is to GET OUT OF THAT OLD BOX!

X
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WORKS FOR ME!:cool:
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

Having Nimoy-Spock around is like making contact with an advanced civilization. Even in the UFP, if a planet already had warp capability, then they were free to share whatever knowledge or technology they wanted with member groups -- or whomever.

Vulcan refugees are going to need a leg up, and I don't know why he shouldn't give it to them.
 
Re: Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

James Bond said:
Psylent1 said:
Maybe he did during the Mind Probe. Captain Kirk might have a reason to trust his "gut" in the future.
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Hmm.. that's a very interesting theory.
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You know, it occurred to me:

What about the threat from Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra, and Gamera?

Or should Spock simply leave that up to the Kamen Riders?

riders8.jpg
 
Should Spock Prime Warn the UFP About Specific Major Threats?

Like somebody said above, each time they succeeded in defeating things such as for example the whale probe it all relied on a specific set of circumstances. They've always pretty much fluked their way through things.
For starters they were in the BoP heading to Earth from VULCAN! Vulcan is now destroyed people, Vulcan is no more in this timeline so they're definitely not going to be in the same place at the same time this time around.

The timeline is different, old Spock has no logical reason to believe that this time around the Ent crew are going to be on-board a Klingon BOP when the whale probe hits. They might end up being in spacedock at the time, vacationing on Risa or might even set course for the thing in the Ent and end up dying as a result.
The logical thing for old Spock to do in a screwed up timeline is ensure these threats are dealt with or it's pretty much the end of the Federation and Earth.

Nobody with an ounce of intelligence would just leave things be and "hope for the best" that the new Ent crew will be in the right place at the right time when the whale probe hits or infact just assume the crew will have gained the knowledge and character required to pull such a mission off.

The logical course of action in such a new timeline is to warn the Federation about these Federation/Earth destroying threats so they can be dealt with.

By warning the Feds they can build a new ship, put together a new crew and have this ship and crew deal with these threats. The Enterprise can then boldy go where they've never gone before and leave this other ship to deal with the threats. The Enterprise on the big screen can then deal with new ones.
 
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