Spock and Uhura [SPOILERS]

[maryh]

yes but you're forgetting that they're showing a very young Spock. aka, around the time of the Cage. remember Spock in the Cage? very different from Spock in later episodes.

I'd like to see where they take him from here.

That is how some see it but we all know that Cage Spock was a pilot for a different Spock. Cage Spock was supposed to be emotional and Number One was supposed to be the unemotional computerlike crew member. But when the pilot did not sell they redid it and transferred Number One's personality to Spock. Then when they did "Menagerie" and used the old film, they didn't cut out enough and we have "The Women!!" shouting Spock and alien flower smiling Spock.

We don't know what young Spock would have been like but somehow I always saw him as trying to be the best, most unemotional Vulcan as possible. He worshiped logic and looked down at these "inferior" humans. Listen to what he tells his mother in JTB.

 

[indranee]

that's still Spock much later in his career. the movie shows Spock and Kirk at a much earlier date than that.

either way, this is a different timeline. I think the faster people accept it, the better. some things WILL be different. Spock has lost his mother and Vulcan. Kirk does not have a father.

things are different from the original timeline.

 

[seniorsleuth]

Sorry to be a party-pooper but it was just too weird for me.
I had to cringe a bit on the inside. I do however believe that their relationship will provide Spock with more depth and internal conflict in the future movie(s), which in itself is an excellent thing, but I fear that it might come at the price of reducing Uhura's character down to just Spock's chick. So far, the positive things that came out of their relationship outweigh the cringe factor. The very funny transporter pad scene where we find out Uhura's first name (the look on kirk's face was awesome "WTF! Wow! WO-W! That explains it, Uhura's doin' the instructor." LOL) alone is worth it. So in short, I'm not a big fan of Spock/Uhura thing but, I guess, it's done in a way that I think I can live with.
Still, it's very weird and...awkward.

I think this movie has already shown Uhura to be more than Spock's chick, as it's partly because she IS so much more that Spock is into her. Frankly, where gender is concerned, it would be hard to do worse than the situation that existed in TOS, where Kirk had his disposable alien female of the week, and both Spock and Kirk had other kinds of action, too, while Uhura mainly kept the homefires burning for the menfolk. In this film she seems more their equal, and her skills are better suited to being a vital part of exploring new civilizations, something which I hope to see in the next film.

I agree that the Spock of TOS would not be in a relationship, but the whole point is that we can't assume this is the same Spock. I agree that with the timeline disrupted, there are likely many changes, both large and small, that have produced differences in his personality and behavior. While he still struggles as a product of "two worlds," especially after his mother's death, I don't think he'll be able to purge his emotions the way TOS Spock did.

 

[maryh]

The only thing I really disliked was the transporter pad make-out. That was just... unprofessional? Then again, one might argue that Spock was emotionally affected by the fate of Vulcan and Amanda. (Oh wait, Spock Prime confirmed he was. )

Still. PDA. Too much.

And, I'll say it: we know that the chick from "This Side of Paradise" had romantic designs on Spock, but do we really know concretely they never dated at all? She said that he could never love her, but just what did that mean? Her idea of "love" might be different than his. Spock may have chosen to live the Vulcan way, but if his father, a full Vulcan, married a human woman, why wouldn't Spock, a half-human, be at least interested in trying?

Does the death of Amanda and Spock's admission make Spock now capable of expressing love to Uhura?

Leila Kalomi said to Spock at their "breakup scene" -- "We could have nothing on Earth -- you couldn't even put your arms around me...". It was obviously not physical and Spock's emotions were not displayed. She may have suspected he had feelings, but he always denied he even had them them in TOS.

 

[indranee]

right, and that was in the original timeline.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

We don't know what young Spock would have been like but somehow I always saw him as trying to be the best, most unemotional Vulcan as possible. He worshiped logic and looked down at these "inferior" humans. Listen to what he tells his mother in JTB.

That's how I imagined him too, and if you just saw Old Spock from STXI it would seem he had been on a very long mellowing curve, coming to terms with his human side for his entire life.

But I can believe this adolescent, kinda-sucks-at-control Spock too.

 

[indranee]

yeah, and the big difference between Prime Spock and NuSpock is that mellowness (read, acceptance). Prime Spock has accepted his emotions, NuSpock is struggling with them.

in TOS we never got to see Spock during his Starfleet Academy days. we saw Spock on Enterprise, much after the first 5-year mission was underway.

here, we're seeing Spock right after his Academy days.

I, for one, am finding the characterization fascinating.

 

[Jeri]

Spock is not Vulcan; Spock is half Vulcan. In this reality, they are clearly making more of his human half.

Sarek told him on the transporter pad to do what his mother would do. I've never heard that before or anything like it from Sarek.

The scene in front of the science council was another example. Just before that, Spock checked with his mother to make sure she would not be insulted if he decided to complete Kolinahr.

Apparently, he intended to attempt it. After the science council insulted his mother and himself, he decided to reject part of his Vulcan heritage. He's not quite so sold on it, at least in this first installment.

 

[maryh]

that's still Spock much later in his career. the movie shows Spock and Kirk at a much earlier date than that.

either way, this is a different timeline. I think the faster people accept it, the better. some things WILL be different. Spock has lost his mother and Vulcan. Kirk does not have a father.

things are different from the original timeline.

Yes, I agree that the characters ARE different. I question the prudence of making them so different. We went back to the original character because they were the most beloved - but they aren't giving us those characters!! I want some changes but taking away Spock's emotional issues is like taking away McCoys craggy sarcastic personality, and cynical tongue.

They gave us different characters in several spinoff yet chose to return to the originals. Though I love the reboot and altered timeline, I don't think altering the most beloved characters until they are hardly recognizable is wise.

Don't get me wrong - I loved that Kirk now has some Daddy issues. Kirk needs some issues. But he is still essentially the same decisive, impulsive, daring, optimistic, over the top personality. So is McCoy. Spock seems VERY different.

 

[indranee]

no, no, I agree with you that they should not change Spock radically. I just don't agree that they are going to. I am willing to wager that and wait and see what happens. this movie was an introduction to his younger days in terms of the alternate timeline where he not only lost his mother but probably a number of his other family members as well as the world he grew up on. there's reason for the angst. if there wasn't any, we'd be sitting here wondering why he's such a goddamned cold fish.. he wasn't like that on TOS!! etc etc.

I am excited for this character's future, actually. I have no qualms. I don't think that he will be mistreated in the way you fear. but then that's me. I do understand what you're afraid of, though.

 

[maryh]

Having just rewatched those eps in the weeks before the movie I was surprised at how flirtatious it came across. Interesting how Uhura never flirts with any one else.

Your point is well taken though, Spock was the target of a lot of ribbing.

Uhura never flirted with anyone else because all the rest of them would take her up on it!! Can you imagine how fast Kirk would respond? She could flirt with Spock because he was "safe". Notice the one who really has the hots for him - Chapel, she doesn't tease or flirt, she just goes to pieces every time he is around (like Patsy Cline)

 

[indranee]

and that was pretty much a no go. a one-sided relationship if ever there was one. I felt really sorry for Chapel during much of TOS.

 

[maryh]

and that was pretty much a no go. a one-sided relationship if ever there was one. I felt really sorry for Chapel during much of TOS.

Yes, but if they ever discover real "Vulcans" and they are like those depicted in TOS -- lots of women in the 23rd century will be "going to pieces" over them. Their reserve, aloofness, coolness etc is part of their charm.

 

[indranee]

oh yeah!

 

[Praetor]

If anything, I could see this as leading to Spock being even more torn by his two halves.

 

[seniorsleuth]

If anything, I could see this as leading to Spock being even more torn by his two halves.

Oh, he'll still be torn, but unlike in TOS he won't always come down on the side of his Vulcan half in the end.

It's true that the aged Spock Prime in this film has ultimately embraced emotion, and he essentially tells his younger self to do the same. That's got to make a difference in how young Spock conducts his life.

 

[propita]

yes but you're forgetting that they're showing a very young Spock. aka, around the time of the Cage. remember Spock in the Cage? very different from Spock in later episodes.

I'd like to see where they take him from here.

I remember reading, literally decades ago, that Pike had been encouraging Spock to "explore" or, really, "balance" his emotions. Like a father figure. So that when Pike left, Spock "missed" him and tried to repress these emotions.

Well, that didn't get a chance to happen--this stuff takes place DURING this time, so Spock was still exploring his emotions. He just was exploring them with Uhura instead of Leila Kalomi.

As for Sarek's "it was logical to marry Amanda"? Sure, it's logical to marry the woman who's going to be the mother of your child---he had already knocked her up!!

 

[indranee]

really? you think so? Amanda was preggers? is that fanon? I don't remember reading that. can you point to any fanon links etc? I'd be seriously interested in some of that stuff

 

[propita]

really? you think so? Amanda was preggers? is that fanon? I don't remember reading that. can you point to any fanon links etc? I'd be seriously interested in some of that stuff

Oh, you're bad!

But, yeah, it was, at minimum, joked about many many years ago. and I remember reading somewhere (maybe a fic) that Sarek was nearly ordered to find a human wife--solidify the alliance-type thing. Again, many many years ago. Possibly sometime in the 70s.

But seriously, when you think about, it makes sense. Of course, it flies in the face of ST:TFF (that the right film?)--which isn't necessarily a bad thing, is it?

 

[indranee]

oh, I can see that

I guess my interest (and confusion) came from the fact that I've always heard that it was hard for Amanda to conceive and that Spock came about after considerable medical help. I don't exactly remember where I read that though. maybe one of the novels? was it maybe GR's novelization of TMP? not sure.

but your proposition does make sense in terms of Sarek's perhaps half-humorous suggestion in JtB etc. perhaps it was originally almost an "arranged" marriage, one of convenience and societal need (and the fact that she was pregnant). then it turned to love.