The Official: Niners What did You Think of the ST Movie Thread

[Michael]

Re: The Official: Niners What did You Think of the Movie Thread

I hate to be the one who breaks this to you, but everything you ever saw in a Star Trek show or movie – even the stuff in the new movie – did never actually happen. There is nothing that can be erased. It's all made up, so I wouldn't worry as long as it is entertaining.

What a patronising and stupid thing to say, shame on you.

Huh? What exactly did I say that was so stupid? EnterpriseF asked if anything that happens in Star Trek gets erased. And of course the answer is no, because really, how could it be erased? TNG, DS9 and VOY are television series, not a presentation of actual history. No movie can erase something that was shown on one of the series. Nothing can, really. Everything is still available on DVD. Granted, I may have been a little snarky in the phrasing of my response, but given the frequency of how often this question was asked since the movie premiered, I think that's rather understandable. So excuse me if I came across as impolite, but I don't see how anything I said is untrue or stupid.

 

[Michael]

Re: The Official: Niners What did You Think of the Movie Thread

As for the miniskirts, I don't really see the problem. They're not the ridiculously short lengths of TOS', which leads to rather different criticisms--tackiness and exploitativeness. I don't see either in the film's costuming.

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that, if I recall correctly, both TOS and the new movie actually do have women wearing pants.

 

[Jefferies]

Re: The Official: Niners What did You Think of the Movie Thread

Other than pulling in Ilia or Commander Majel Barrett, or beefing up Rand (why bother?) or Chapel's roles beyond recognition, I don't know where one expects them to have gotten all these female characters one would like to see. I don't think it's fair to blame the movie for Gene Roddenberry and NBC's choices in filling out the roster in 1966.

Now I'm not saying Ilia or Number One would've been bad ideas per se--if Captain Pike deserved a rebirth, maybe his nameless XO did too. And Ilia would've been a delight and hopefully will show up in a future film. But a LCDR Spock would have to be written around in order to bring us the Kirk-Spock beatdown, and while dialogue and characterization is a strength, and a great strength, of this writing team, they've shown themselves as far less able to write around logical obstacles that keep them from getting their plot where they want it to go. And is that what we really want to see? An ancillary female character in there just because, only to wind up incapcitated, dead or crippled in order to cede the spotlight to the actual main characters?

As for the miniskirts, I don't really see the problem. They're not the ridiculously short lengths of TOS', which leads to rather different criticisms--tackiness and exploitativeness. I don't see either in the film's costuming.

A sexually dimorphic species is bound to show a little variation in its accoutrements, I suppose. Complaining about miniskirts is tantamount to complaining about hair length, hair removal from different places, or makeup.

Then again, I guess if women all wear pants, they don't need to bother shaving their legs, and that's two birds with one stone.

I'm not even saying that's not an argument worth making, but that's the logical extension of the complaint, particularly when we know nothing about the fashions and mores, about what is considered professional attire, of a time far removed from our own.

Well they could have made Pike female, or Robau, or Kirk could have been already born when the film opened with his mom saving the ship and his dad and him on the shuttle, or the head of the academy could have been a women. There would have been no need for major additional roles, just evidence that the future is not a 19th century patriarchy. And let me know how you would fancy wearing a mini skirt, say working in a hospital, the police department, a bank or the military. And I am sorry, just saying its the future and thats why they don't mind, sounds like a feeble argument (after all you could justify anything with that reasoning). I'm sure you can do better than that .

 

[Myasishchev]

^I want to see the TNG manskirt make its defiant comeback.

And Jeffries, I would wear a miniskirt with pride if I had the legs to pull it off. Pike as a woman? I wouldn't mind that one bit, but I have to figure that if it occurred to them at all, they immediately discounted the gain as not worth the consequences of fanbitching. STARBUCK IS A MAN, after all--right or wrong (just to be clear: they're wrong), people still complain about that five years later, and here they have the added ammunition of the universe sort-of being identical to the one our TOS heroes arose in, before Nero comes back, rather than a straight BSG-style anything-goes reboot.

 

[Jefferies]

Re: The Official: Niners What did You Think of the Movie Thread

Huh? What exactly did I say that was so stupid? EnterpriseF asked if anything that happens in Star Trek gets erased. And of course the answer is no, because really, how could it be erased? TNG, DS9 and VOY are television series, not a presentation of actual history. No movie can erase something that was shown on one of the series. Nothing can, really. Everything is still available on DVD. Granted, I may have been a little snarky in the phrasing of my response, but given the frequency of how often this question was asked since the movie premiered, I think that's rather understandable. So excuse me if I came across as impolite, but I don't see how anything I said is untrue or stupid.

And you are doing it all over again. You are accusing grown-up people from being unable to discriminate between fiction and reality. How could you be more arrogant and patronising than that? Technically, reboots rewrite the ficional history of their ficiontal universe, which will affect all future stories told in said universe. Asking if this occurs with the new movie is not unreasonble, granted its been asked before, but that is no reason to be nasty. Also, some find such overhauls of a franchise appealing some don't, and some like yourself dont seem to care at all, as long as its "fun". This has no impact on physical reality. So where are you getting this idea that DVDs will disappear? Just stop assuming everyone is stupid who doesn't see things your way and what you say will seem less stupid as a result.

 

[Jefferies]

^I want to see the TNG manskirt make its defiant comeback.

And Jeffries, I would wear a miniskirt with pride if I had the legs to pull it off. Pike as a woman? I wouldn't mind that one bit, but I have to figure that if it occurred to them at all, they immediately discounted the gain as not worth the consequences of fanbitching. STARBUCK IS A MAN, after all--right or wrong (just to be clear: they're wrong), people still complain about that five years later, and here they have the added ammunition of the universe sort-of being identical to the one our TOS heroes arose in, before Nero comes back, rather than a straight BSG-style anything-goes reboot.

Well to be fair, rebooting Star Trek is alot more tricky than BSG. Thats the reason I would have stayed clear of it . Thing is Greenwood as Pike is one of the good points in the movie, although his seeing the strength of the force in Kirk is a bit of a cliché of course. But, regardless, as I pointed out there were ample opportunities to portray women in authoritative positions and they passed on all of them.

 

[Michael]

^ Maybe you are right. I can see now how one could take my response that way. Of course you are right, everyone can have their own opinion. Who am I to tell others how they have to look at a thing? And I'm not above admitting that maybe yes, I was a little arrogant. I want to say sorry to everyone I might have offended with what I said. I guess I spent too much time in the Star Trek XI forum lately.

However, honestly, I'm sorry if I sounded rude.

 

[Jefferies]

^ Maybe you are right. I can see now how one could take my response that way. Of course you are right, everyone can have their own opinion. Who am I to tell others how they have to look at a thing? And I'm not above admitting that maybe yes, I was a little arrogant. I want to say sorry to everyone I might have offended with what I said. I guess I spent too much time in the Star Trek XI forum lately.

However, honestly, I'm sorry if I sounded rude.

Appology accapted! I find it very respectable of you for saying this so openly! Also I responded to you about your opinion in this matter in another thread, but after this statement I consider the criticism I made there void. Just to let you know . And I agree the Star Trek XI forum seems to have a certain bias .

 

[Myasishchev]

^What the hell kind of Internet is this?!

Well to be fair, rebooting Star Trek is alot more tricky than BSG. Thats the reason I would have stayed clear of it . Thing is Greenwood as Pike is one of the good points in the movie, although his seeing the strength of the force in Kirk is a bit of a cliché of course. But, regardless, as I pointed out there were ample opportunities to portray women in authoritative positions and they passed on all of them.

Well, I can agree with your goals, if not your methods. For what it's worth, Uhura came off as far more competent than any of the males...

 

[Michael]

Appology accapted! I find it very respectable of you for saying this so openly! Also I responded to you about your opinion in this matter in another thread, but after this statement I consider the criticism I made there void. Just to let you know . And I agree the Star Trek XI forum seems to have a certain bias .

Thank you. And yes, I've seen your comment in the other thread. It made me rethink my stance on this, too.

 

[Jefferies]

Thank you. And yes, I've seen your comment in the other thread. It made me rethink my stance on this, too.

I must say I am touched that you regarded my comments with such an open mind! Thank you for that. Btw are you really from Bielefeld? I have two friends who study at the university there.

 

[Michael]

I must say I am touched that you regarded my comments with such an open mind! Thank you for that. Btw are you really from Bielefeld? I have two friends who study at the university there.

Well, I live in Bielefeld, yes. (I'm originally from Frankfurt/Oder, but that is a different story. ) And I'm studying here, too. Not at the university, though, but rather at the Fachhochschule (which is a somewhat different entity than Bielefeld's university; the international term for Fachhochschule is University of Applied Sciences). What do your friends study?

 

[Brutal Strudel]

The movie was a real trip. Nurse (Ratched) Winn needs to cut back on Benny Russell's meds, all I have to say.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Nice name and sig you've got there. The DS9 references are a little daft though. Even Benny couldn't come up with a story as preposterous as the plot of this movie.

 

[roliver]

The movie is fun, intelligent, poignant, and awesome. I will see it again.

Fun, yes, but INTELLIGENT? You can't be serious.

 

[EnterpriseF]

Re: The Official: Niners What did You Think of the Movie Thread

Thank you everyone that replied

 

[Mr. B]

I felt alone in the XI forum but I guess I'm really alone in here. I left the theater feeling ill. The new movie was abysmal on every level except for ILM's work. The plot was complete garbage and I didn't find the characters were fleshed out all that much. I didn't care for the sets and the music left something to be desired.

Judged as part of Trek, I would say it's in name only. Judged purely as cinema, it's just a second-rate summer action movie.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I felt alone in the XI forum but I guess I'm really alone in here. I left the theater feeling ill. The new movie was abysmal on every level except for ILM's work. The plot was complete garbage and I didn't find the characters were fleshed out all that much. I didn't care for the sets and the music left something to be desired.

Judged as part of Trek, I would say it's in name only. Judged purely as cinema, it's just a second-rate summer action movie.

I feel your pain. I loved this movie as an entertainment--it reminded me of the days we'd play phaser fight in a darkened basement using Trek and Space: 1999 toy pistols--but I have absolutely no respect for it. It's like a really hot and really dumb stripper in that regard--very stimualting to the senses but it does absolutely nothing for the intellect. Of course, I'll go the library if I want my intellect stroked. This movie was more like a trip to the champagne room.

 

[Tomalak]

^Except antimatter's real and has demonstrable and predictable physical properties.

Like the ability to power a faster than light drive?

God knows what red matter is supposed to be or why it looks like a liquid mercury medicine ball.

My point is that while Trek might have always had a basis in science fact, the application has often been very much science fiction. Red Matter is a plot device, like a thousand others in Star Trek's history.

 

[waynehead]

My .02: pretty much hated it. Die Hard in space is not star trek, IMO. I would've greatly preferred seeing Sisko, Kira, and co. doing something meaningful again to what basically amounts to just another hollywood re-boot...