Kirk's older brother Sam?/The walking kid

[CommanderRaytas]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

^ Um no, he said Johnny

Um no he said Georgie, this is both VERY CLEAR and in context with a cut scene that lead to the chase scene of George and Jim getting beat by their uncle while their mother is away VERY apparent.

Hence why his step brother is trying to hitch a ride away, they where both running away from home.

No, he says Johnny. I've seen both the original and the German version, and in both he obviously says Johnny. That kid was not his brother and there is no evidence in the film that Jim has a brother. I don't care about deleted scenes. And Geroge sort of reacted as if the baby had been his first (and only) son.

 

[Albertese]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

I tend to think that this Jim Kirk is an only child. Since the movie does delve so deeply into Kirk's family and background, it would seem like they would have mentioned him. Pike surely would have said something about it. Jim woulda had some line after the bar fight to the effect of "Go see my brother, maybe he'll help out out." Pike really kinda played the heir apparent card on Kirk in that scene. Now granted, George Junior could be around, but be the quiet nerdy type buried in his collection of exo-biology books so Pike realized he wouldn't have the impulsiveness to be a good Starfleet commander. Then again, shouldn't Pike have mentioned that to Jim?

Also noteworthy, there was no mention of Sybok either, and he got way more screen time than George Samuel Kirk! I think in this universe, Kirk and Spock are both only children.

 

[Cheebo]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

Why can't he still have his brother?

If George and Winona had a older son before Kirk it'd make sense to not have him on the Kelvin with him. Assuming they are both starfleet officers. George at that time would likely be staying with either George Kirk or Winona's parents.

When in Iowa there is no reason to assume he isn't there. Why would he be in the car with Jim Kirk or be on the phone?

There is nothing in the movie to imply he didn't have an older brother.

 

[Kelso]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

It's also possible that Sam Kirk is a child from a previous marriage. Without Daddy, JTK might not have been raised with his brother, at all.

 

[sbk1234]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

Don't hate me for asking this, but is it canon that George Samuel is the older brother? After all, he was played by an actor exactly Shatner's age, he could have been older or younger. If he was a younger brother, case explained away and closed.


Personally, I see him sitting lonely at a bar with Gary Mitchell cursing away the movie...

 

[KingstonTrekker]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

In the novelization by Alan Dean Foster it is clearly stated that the boy walking along the road is older brother Sam, who is running away from home due to the Kirks' stepdad. Sam has his thumb up because he is wanting to hitch a ride.

I have no idea why the kid's name was changed to "Johnny" in post-production.

 

[Kelso]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

^That does seem like a strange thing to change.

Don't hate me for asking this, but is it canon that George Samuel is the older brother? After all, he was played by an actor exactly Shatner's age, he could have been older or younger. If he was a younger brother, case explained away and closed.


Personally, I see him sitting lonely at a bar with Gary Mitchell cursing away the movie...

Shatner was made up to look older when he 'played' Sam Kirk.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

Um no he said Georgie, this is both VERY CLEAR and in context with a cut scene that lead to the chase scene of George and Jim getting beat by their uncle while their mother is away VERY apparent.

Hence why his step brother is trying to hitch a ride away, they where both running away from home.

The actor is listed as having played Johnny in the credits.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1638022/

Likely by someone who needs their ears cleaned out.

For the love of God, the kid said his name is Siberius!

 

[TrekGuide.com]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

^ Um no, he said Johnny

Um no he said Georgie, this is both VERY CLEAR and in context with a cut scene that lead to the chase scene of George and Jim getting beat by their uncle while their mother is away VERY apparent.

No, he says Johnny. I've seen both the original and the German version, and in both he obviously says Johnny. That kid was not his brother and there is no evidence in the film that Jim has a brother. I don't care about deleted scenes. And Geroge sort of reacted as if the baby had been his first (and only) son.

I'm going to have to both agree and disagree with you. Kirk definitely said "Johnny" in this movie. The hitchhiking boy was definitely Johnny, and not George.

However, James Kirk DID have an older brother named George, whom we saw in TOS. He looks a lot like William Shatner.

George, being older, was born before James Kirk, and thus before the changes made by Nero when he arrived during Jim's birth.

And since George Kirk was named after his father, that is why Lt. George Kirk and his wife are discussing whose father to name their second son after.

 

[sbk1234]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

^That does seem like a strange thing to change.

Don't hate me for asking this, but is it canon that George Samuel is the older brother? After all, he was played by an actor exactly Shatner's age, he could have been older or younger. If he was a younger brother, case explained away and closed.


Personally, I see him sitting lonely at a bar with Gary Mitchell cursing away the movie...

Shatner was made up to look older when he 'played' Sam Kirk.

Maybe he's just under a lot of stress and marriage hasn't been good to him...

 

[DarthPipes]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

George and Winona acted like this was their first kid in the opening sequence. Like I said, I think they wanted to play more on Kirk's loner status. George could be around but we just don't see him.

 

[nx1701g]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

Maybe George Kirk Jr. was to a previous marriage of George Kirk Sr. in this timeline and when Sr. died, Jr. was returned to his biological mother.

Novels aren't canon so just because he's called "Georgie" in the novel is irrelevant.

 

[Classic Fan]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

George and Winona acted like this was their first kid in the opening sequence. Like I said, I think they wanted to play more on Kirk's loner status. George could be around but we just don't see him.

Exxactly.

And the fact that the timeline was changed during Kirks birth, so, my logic tells me George Kirk junior was already around.

If he was on the Kelvin, which i doubt in early starfleet, he was probably ferried into another pod or shuttle, afterall, why would he be with George Snr on the bridge or with his mother giving giving birth to Jimmy. If he was on board, he wouldve been in guest quarters or rec-deck presumably.



PS: I loved the fact that Georges fathers name was Tiberius, which was dismissed as terrible.

 

[Cky]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

The character "Johnny" is played by the same person who was playing George Kirk, only his scenes were cut along with the childhood scenes of Kirk. For some reason JJ cut the character completely, maybe he thought to have George in one scene was pointless and unneeded, so he ad-libed in the name Johnny.

 

[borgboy]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

I can't believe that George Jr/Sam was on the Kelvin, if he were then Winona should have been screaming for him. I just assume he was with relatives in Iowa.
I don't see how having a brother undercuts Jim Kirk being a loner. He and Sam just could have not been close.
I have little info on Sybok. Was he raised on Vulcan? At what age did he live with Sarek and Amanda. I assume he probably died on Vulcan.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

Um no he said Georgie, this is both VERY CLEAR and in context with a cut scene that lead to the chase scene of George and Jim getting beat by their uncle while their mother is away VERY apparent.

No, he says Johnny. I've seen both the original and the German version, and in both he obviously says Johnny. That kid was not his brother and there is no evidence in the film that Jim has a brother. I don't care about deleted scenes. And Geroge sort of reacted as if the baby had been his first (and only) son.

I'm going to have to both agree and disagree with you. Kirk definitely said "Johnny" in this movie. The hitchhiking boy was definitely Johnny, and not George.

However, James Kirk DID have an older brother named George, whom we saw in TOS. He looks a lot like William Shatner.

George, being older, was born before James Kirk, and thus before the changes made by Nero when he arrived during Jim's birth.

And since George Kirk was named after his father, that is why Lt. George Kirk and his wife are discussing whose father to name their second son after.

I already said that I know Jim Kirk had a brother in TOS. I'm aware of that. But there isn't any indication in the film, and I guess they just dropped that because it would probably have distracted from the main plot.

Sam might still be out there, I just didn't get the feeling he was. Jim seems a lot like an only child to me.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Kirk's older brother Sam?

For all we know Sam is on Earth with other family while his mom and dad are on the Kelvin. He wasn't even mentioned in the original series until about ten episodes in, so not hearing about him in this movie doesn't mean he won't pop up later.

 

[EmperorKalan]

The Walking Kid

In the Iowa car chase scene, Kirk blows by some teenager walking along the road. Is there anything which might imply he was Sam Kirk, Jim's older brother?

(Presumably he would have been staying with the unnamed uncle when George and Winonna were on the Kelvin, as the phone message told us Jim did when that scene took place.)

 

[trekker670]

Re: The Walking Kid

In the scene, he was called "Johnny," so I'd assume it cannot be Sam Kirk, but I have heard that it was portrayed by the same actor as Sam was supposed to be.

 

[KiraDax]

Re: The Walking Kid

Could Johnny be a nickname Jim might have had for Sam?

(Interestingly, I was just reading about Johnny APPLEseed.)

Johnny is also Yankee slang for Confederate soldiers. Maybe they were having issues. Kid didn't look impressed by Jim's escapade, that's for sure.