We've been "debating over stupid shit" for the last 40+ years. This is nothing new.
The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
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We've been "debating over stupid shit" for the last 40+ years. This is nothing new.
If the ability of we Trek fans to get into very long, divisive, and often convoluted arguments about pretty much anything is a measuring stick of the quality of any part of the Trek franchise or any other, then we're in a heap of trouble...
Hear, hear!
My point exactly.
We've been "debating over stupid shit" for the last 40+ years. This is nothing new.
Last night someone asked what was the message of this film. I think it was on another thread. I could not come up with one right away. But after sleeping on it, I think they were trying to say major elements of the universe will unfold in a specific way. Meaning there is such a thing as a destiny. For example, despite Kirk's father not being there to influence him, he ends up joining SF. Sure he joined later than the original time line, 22 - 25yo. He still meets and befriends Bones and Spock. He still becomes Captain of the Enterprise, and the youngest Captain in SF. I still think they should have flash fwded 5 - 8 yrs before making him Captain.
The other message I think they tried to convey was, circumstances do not dictate your fate. He was a troubled kid and had no direction. Pike challenged him and he chose to better himself.
The other message I think they tried to convey was, circumstances do not dictate your fate. He was a troubled kid and had no direction. Pike challenged him and he chose to better himself.
And yet another nay-sayer who joined the BBS within the last 24 hours and only has one post to his/her credit.
--Ted
Why so defensive?
And as for "getting my facts right"... I said I was scanning, not mining. I chose to ignore your original post when you wrote the words "NOT CANON" about the film which I felt illustrate an unhealthy position towards Star Trek, the fictional entertainment franchise (cf. the quote in my signature). If you found it boring, I'm sorry you felt that way, even though I scratch my head in bewilderment how this could be. But the whole "canon" thing...
The story was awful. (Spoilers)
I feel silly. J.J Abrams pointedly said, "Purists, stay home." It was sound advice and I should have listened. But I told myself, "Tai, you're not a purist. Sure, canon and Star Trek lore is important, but if it means revitalizing the franchise, ensuring that Star Trek endures and bringing in a whole new fanbase... then it's alright to let some things slide."
I think this movie will make enough money to put a sequel into production. I think general audiences will embrace it as a fun summer sci-fi flick. I just don't think I can get on board. Not with this creative team.
The cast was wonderful. I embraced them in the roles they played. The performances were likeable, even endearing. Zachary Quinto stole the show. Chris Pine is a worthy successor to the role of James T. Kirk. I thought the production values were top notch in every way. I have gripes, like the unneccesary redesign of the NCC-1701, but relative to my other concerns, these are minor.
The movie was awful because of the story.
Let's start with the villian. Nero's backstory, his vendetta and means of execution were all strangely similar to Shinzon's from the last film. It's almost... and I can't even believe I'm saying this, but it almost felt like they were paying homage to Star Trek: Nemesis. Sure, the villian in an action film is only really there to die to the hero... but Nero, the terrorist Romulans, the ridiculous ship--it wasn't just lazy, it was recycled. I was sitting in the theatre in disbelief. The Enterprise has saved the day from stronger adversaries on numerous occasions. And I didn't have to pay $10.25 to see it any of those times.
The entire sequence on the ice planet was an homage to Star Wars. Rather than being excited I was sadly, kind of annoyed. Kirk just happens by coincidence to run into old Spock in a cave while escaping a monster? Spock was surprised to see him. They couldn't have had Spock track down another life signal on the planet he was marooned on and follow it to the cave to save Kirk? That type of coincidence is still lame, but no--Spock was just sitting there in a random cave waiting to die (14 kilometers from a Starfleet base that he KNEW about) when in strolls in his best friend? UGH! It was contrived. It was nonsensical.
In this alternate reality, using Scottie's theories that future-spock relayed back to him--two people can be transported lightyears across space? Fine, you know what? My head isn't going to explode. I'm not a purist. (Keep
telling yourself that Tai, You are not a purist.)
You cut to a scene from 2387 during a Federation-Romulan crisis, a perfect opportunity to give us fans a quick glimpse of a Soverign class ship or some new kick-ass design and you give us a jellyfish from the Vulcan Science Academy? Really? Whatever, not important, minor gripe.
What I don't get is, why was Spock late to stop the supernova? And what difference would it have made if the "red matter" stopped the shockwave or not? What exactly would the planet Romulus have done anyway WITHOUT A STAR TO ORBIT? Of all the ships in the vast Romulan Star Armada there to witness the death of their civilization it was a bunch of terrorists (why were they terrorists in the first place?) on a mining ship that just happened to be on hand to pick up the failed ambassador, piloting their only hope? The whole sequence was just painfully bad. I've seen some ridiculous things in Star Trek, don't get me wrong. But I don't think any of them cost $150 million dollars to produce.
Look, I'm not a purist. What I am though, is a fan of Star Trek. And as best I can tell the only thing this movie added to "Star Trek" was a rehash of the Nemesis plot and the creation of an alternate reality Enterprise crew where the only major differences are an uglier ship and the utter annihilation of the planet Vulcan... which in terms of the advancement of Star Trek lore, feels like a giant Fuck you.
It's like I met a girl at a party, she wore a stunning outfit and her features were flawless. She was gorgeous in every way. I took her home with me and just as things were getting hot and heavy she kicks me in the groin.
I think the crew is great. From the top down, I felt like they all breathed new life into these legendary roles. I think they did the original series proud in their performances. I can't say I'm looking forward to them going through another mess of a story like this one. Here's hoping the next one isn't written by the Transformer folks.
I feel silly. J.J Abrams pointedly said, "Purists, stay home." It was sound advice and I should have listened. But I told myself, "Tai, you're not a purist. Sure, canon and Star Trek lore is important, but if it means revitalizing the franchise, ensuring that Star Trek endures and bringing in a whole new fanbase... then it's alright to let some things slide."
I think this movie will make enough money to put a sequel into production. I think general audiences will embrace it as a fun summer sci-fi flick. I just don't think I can get on board. Not with this creative team.
The cast was wonderful. I embraced them in the roles they played. The performances were likeable, even endearing. Zachary Quinto stole the show. Chris Pine is a worthy successor to the role of James T. Kirk. I thought the production values were top notch in every way. I have gripes, like the unneccesary redesign of the NCC-1701, but relative to my other concerns, these are minor.
The movie was awful because of the story.
Let's start with the villian. Nero's backstory, his vendetta and means of execution were all strangely similar to Shinzon's from the last film. It's almost... and I can't even believe I'm saying this, but it almost felt like they were paying homage to Star Trek: Nemesis. Sure, the villian in an action film is only really there to die to the hero... but Nero, the terrorist Romulans, the ridiculous ship--it wasn't just lazy, it was recycled. I was sitting in the theatre in disbelief. The Enterprise has saved the day from stronger adversaries on numerous occasions. And I didn't have to pay $10.25 to see it any of those times.
The entire sequence on the ice planet was an homage to Star Wars. Rather than being excited I was sadly, kind of annoyed. Kirk just happens by coincidence to run into old Spock in a cave while escaping a monster? Spock was surprised to see him. They couldn't have had Spock track down another life signal on the planet he was marooned on and follow it to the cave to save Kirk? That type of coincidence is still lame, but no--Spock was just sitting there in a random cave waiting to die (14 kilometers from a Starfleet base that he KNEW about) when in strolls in his best friend? UGH! It was contrived. It was nonsensical.
In this alternate reality, using Scottie's theories that future-spock relayed back to him--two people can be transported lightyears across space? Fine, you know what? My head isn't going to explode. I'm not a purist. (Keep
telling yourself that Tai, You are not a purist.)
You cut to a scene from 2387 during a Federation-Romulan crisis, a perfect opportunity to give us fans a quick glimpse of a Soverign class ship or some new kick-ass design and you give us a jellyfish from the Vulcan Science Academy? Really? Whatever, not important, minor gripe.
What I don't get is, why was Spock late to stop the supernova? And what difference would it have made if the "red matter" stopped the shockwave or not? What exactly would the planet Romulus have done anyway WITHOUT A STAR TO ORBIT? Of all the ships in the vast Romulan Star Armada there to witness the death of their civilization it was a bunch of terrorists (why were they terrorists in the first place?) on a mining ship that just happened to be on hand to pick up the failed ambassador, piloting their only hope? The whole sequence was just painfully bad. I've seen some ridiculous things in Star Trek, don't get me wrong. But I don't think any of them cost $150 million dollars to produce.
Look, I'm not a purist. What I am though, is a fan of Star Trek. And as best I can tell the only thing this movie added to "Star Trek" was a rehash of the Nemesis plot and the creation of an alternate reality Enterprise crew where the only major differences are an uglier ship and the utter annihilation of the planet Vulcan... which in terms of the advancement of Star Trek lore, feels like a giant Fuck you.
It's like I met a girl at a party, she wore a stunning outfit and her features were flawless. She was gorgeous in every way. I took her home with me and just as things were getting hot and heavy she kicks me in the groin.
I think the crew is great. From the top down, I felt like they all breathed new life into these legendary roles. I think they did the original series proud in their performances. I can't say I'm looking forward to them going through another mess of a story like this one. Here's hoping the next one isn't written by the Transformer folks.
What I don't get, is that Nero could have used his time and energy to destroy the STAR that fucked up Romulus.
So why did he go after Vulcan and Earth? He could have taken care of the star and theoretically, his wife and race would still be alive. No revenge needed, with his wife and race alive, he would have had no reason for it.
At least they would have been alive in the new timeline, had he succeeded. He had no way of knowing that by going back in time and destroying the Kelvin, he was setting forth on a different timeline. Time-travel gives me a headache.
I still don't like the destruction of Vulcan. Yeah, it's in the new timeline, but still, what a downer. And in the prime timeline, Romulus is still gone. Bleh.
**throws darts**
So why did he go after Vulcan and Earth? He could have taken care of the star and theoretically, his wife and race would still be alive. No revenge needed, with his wife and race alive, he would have had no reason for it.
At least they would have been alive in the new timeline, had he succeeded. He had no way of knowing that by going back in time and destroying the Kelvin, he was setting forth on a different timeline.
Time-travel gives me a headache.I still don't like the destruction of Vulcan. Yeah, it's in the new timeline, but still, what a downer. And in the prime timeline, Romulus is still gone. Bleh.
**throws darts**
nokiafuturephon
Lieutenant
What I don't get, is that Nero could have used his time and energy to destroy the STAR that fucked up Romulus.
So why did he go after Vulcan and Earth? He could have taken care of the star and theoretically, his wife and race would still be alive. No revenge needed, with his wife and race alive, he would have had no reason for it.
At least they would have been alive in the new timeline, had he succeeded. He had no way of knowing that by going back in time and destroying the Kelvin, he was setting forth on a different timeline.
I still don't like the destruction of Vulcan. Yeah, it's in the new timeline, but still, what a downer. And in the prime timeline, Romulus is still gone. Bleh.
**throws darts**
He wasn't destroying the Federation worlds to save Romulus, he was destroying them out of revenge. He even said that he had a new mission on top of revenge, and that was to save Romulus and ensure that it lives in a galaxy without the Federation.
He most likely either destroyed that star during the 25 year waiting period, or he was planning on doing it after he destroyed the Federation worlds. Either way it wasn't really a pressing matter, he had over a hundred years to do it.
Re: The story was awful. (Spoilers)
The movie was great. Good, very clever, very emotional script.
The movie was great. Good, very clever, very emotional script.
I still don't like the destruction of Vulcan. Yeah, it's in the new timeline, but still, what a downer. And in the prime timeline, Romulus is still gone. Bleh.
**throws darts**
Neither do I, but they did imply that there would be a new Vulcan. Also, a thought just came up but if they did only canonize Enterprise for the new Universe, and they took the scholars to start the new Vulcan, could this explain why no one will remember the way the Vulcans acted in the first 3 seasons of Enterprise? Heck, I saw some of that even on the Council, and in the boys who were beating up Spock, but it was time for the old Vulcan to die and the new one, the one in which we know all too well, is born. That might be the way I see it and that's kind of a happy feeling.
Re: The story was awful. (Spoilers)
Tai - before all the gusher-haters(of anybody calling this anything other than the second coming)turn up, let me say thank you for an actually intelligently written critique. I must admit, I haven't seen the film yet but some of the plot points are worrying me.
I also wrote months back that I had a problem with the villains in ST these days just all looking like bald vampires. Seems even their murky motivations are also now being carried over from film to film.
I am increasingly feeling strange about my experience next Tuesday.
Tai - before all the gusher-haters(of anybody calling this anything other than the second coming)turn up, let me say thank you for an actually intelligently written critique. I must admit, I haven't seen the film yet but some of the plot points are worrying me.
I also wrote months back that I had a problem with the villains in ST these days just all looking like bald vampires. Seems even their murky motivations are also now being carried over from film to film.
I am increasingly feeling strange about my experience next Tuesday.
And if you've had read my other post later on you would have seen I meant that "not canon" comment as more of a joke (as that's the typical thing a Trek fan might say when they dislike something)Why so defensive?
And as for "getting my facts right"... I said I was scanning, not mining. I chose to ignore your original post when you wrote the words "NOT CANON" about the film which I felt illustrate an unhealthy position towards Star Trek, the fictional entertainment franchise (cf. the quote in my signature). If you found it boring, I'm sorry you felt that way, even though I scratch my head in bewilderment how this could be. But the whole "canon" thing...
It's exactly things like this that make me say that nuTrek is in it's own separate universe, having nothing to do with the original Trek incarnation.
This movie, it's backstory and everything, has nothing to do with TOS or TNG or DS9 or the future of that universe. Two completely different universes. This movie is it's own reboot.
If I remember correctly he did say to Pike that he saved Romulus. I took that to mean he already visited that star and destroyed it, before coming to Vulcan for his revenge (he did have a lot of red matter)
Re: The story was awful. (Spoilers)
Another review thread on its own?
Another review thread on its own?
I still don't like the destruction of Vulcan. Yeah, it's in the new timeline, but still, what a downer. And in the prime timeline, Romulus is still gone. Bleh.
**throws darts**
Neither do I, but they did imply that there would be a new Vulcan. Also, a thought just came up but if they did only canonize Enterprise for the new Universe, and they took the scholars to start the new Vulcan, could this explain why no one will remember the way the Vulcans acted in the first 3 seasons of Enterprise? Heck, I saw some of that even on the Council, and in the boys who were beating up Spock, but it was time for the old Vulcan to die and the new one, the one in which we know all too well, is born. That might be the way I see it and that's kind of a happy feeling.
And that's why the Vulcan we know has a red sky instead of what we saw in the film, too...
Re: The story was awful. (Spoilers)
The script was clever and entertaining. Pleasing purists is what made the franchise unbearable by the Bakula years anyway. I think they did a great job giving us fanboys something to hold on to while giving it a mass appeal. I, for one, want as many people as possible to enjoy Star Trek because that means sequels and more TV shows.
The script was clever and entertaining. Pleasing purists is what made the franchise unbearable by the Bakula years anyway. I think they did a great job giving us fanboys something to hold on to while giving it a mass appeal. I, for one, want as many people as possible to enjoy Star Trek because that means sequels and more TV shows.
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