Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D...

[c0rnedfr0g]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

She wasn't tenured. The school had every legal right to fire her for whatever reason they wanted.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

I would be more concerned about some of the morals of the other students and their parents than I would be about this particular teacher if she was teaching my kids.

I certainly wouldn't like my children to mix with the girls who turned on this teacher because they weren't selected for the team. As far as I am concerned this teacher is a woman who is tastefully showing her beautiful body whereas the girls are just spoilt little bitches.

 

[sidious618]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Someone correct me if they know otherwise, but I don't believe there is a law stating a school or business can not only decide what is proper, but also control your personal off-the-clock life.

Unless she's tenured the school can fire her for any reason what-so-ever.

This is correct. Many schools have had problems with teachers doing sexual things so this may be a preventive move. It's horrible how many teachers do atrocious things and then get away with it because of tenure.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Someone correct me if they know otherwise, but I don't believe there is a law stating a school or business can not only decide what is proper, but also control your personal off-the-clock life.

Unless she's tenured the school can fire her for any reason what-so-ever.

This is correct. Many schools have had problems with teachers doing sexual things so this may be a preventive move. It's horrible how many teachers do atrocious things and then get away with it because of tenure.

Agreed. It seems as though more and more teachers are having illicit affairs with younger students.

 

[Captain X]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Ah yes, she posed in Playboy, that totally means she's a pedophile...

In any given discussion about sexuality and/or porn, inevitably someone brings up pedophilia. This is not an argument, it's a straw man and a very weak one at that. This is just the usual social conservative bullshit, using the retarded reasoning that anything someone does can somehow negatively affect others, and should thus be ostracized from society. Fuck that. Try coming up with an argument that doesn't use children as a shield for your own bullshit.

 

[Lindley]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Talk about missing the point.

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Talk about missing the point.

No kidding.

Hell, without tenure, the school doesn't even need to provide a reason at all. They could say, "We just don't want you here anymore" and be done with it. It doesn't fucking matter what the reason is. The school has every right to fire her.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

You're missing the point that we live in a world still backward enough to even write such a thing into a contract. Depending upon the actual wording, she may still be able to sue and win.

There is nothing backward about parents demanding certain things from the people their children are exposed to. In fact it's rightfully expected and included as we see in this case.

I have to agree. Would I want my son or daughter being taught by a woman who posed for playboy, or a man who was a male stripper? No, because the influence of a teacher on students can be life changing, life influencing.

If they choose to try and influence the students with their personal activities outside of school, then that would be wrong and they should be terminated. A teacher shouldn't be telling students "Posing for Playboy is great, you should try it" or "Why bother going to college when you can make tons of money as a stripper?" as that might influence the students to follow that path and has nothing to do with the proper performance of their job. However, I seriously doubt that would be a problem for most teachers to understand and avoid.

But just being one of those things in and of itself without trying to influence the students overtly shouldn't be a problem. Yes, the students might find out on their own, but that doesn't mean we should prohibit teachers from living their private lives as they choose within the bounds of the law so long as they act properly in their professional life.

Really, if a student saw their teacher naked in Playboy, what's going to happen? A complete breakdown of order, with the students refusing to follow their teacher's directions? A huge jump in the number of students posing for Playboy when they turn 18? Hasn't happened so far, and if they're 18 anyway, it's completely legal, so why is it anyone else's business? If such a powerful influence theoretically exists, it won't just go away because the teacher is fired. If anything termination - especially if it goes widely publicized - would just bring more attention to the situation.

Now, I understand that if she signed a morality clause, or worked in an at-will state, or wasn't tenured, they are well within their rights to terminate her, I'm just opposed to the idea of morality clauses dictating how you conduct your life outside of work (within the bounds of the law) in the first place. Too many employers are digging into the personal lives of their employees as it is or terminating people for things that have absolutely nothing to do with their job performance, and where do we draw the line? Should your employer control your personal life as well as your professional life?

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

If they choose to try and influence the students with their personal activities outside of school, then that would be wrong and they should be terminated. A teacher shouldn't be telling students "Posing for Playboy is great, you should try it" or "Why bother going to college when you can make tons of money as a stripper?" as that might influence the students to follow that path and has nothing to do with the proper performance of their job. However, I seriously doubt that would be a problem for most teachers to understand and avoid.

Kids, teenagers especially, are very impressionable. She doesn't have to tell her students how great it was to pose for playboy to maybe "influence" them to do it. If she has a student that really looks up to her, the act of doing it alone is impressionable enough.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

If they choose to try and influence the students with their personal activities outside of school, then that would be wrong and they should be terminated. A teacher shouldn't be telling students "Posing for Playboy is great, you should try it" or "Why bother going to college when you can make tons of money as a stripper?" as that might influence the students to follow that path and has nothing to do with the proper performance of their job. However, I seriously doubt that would be a problem for most teachers to understand and avoid.

Kids, teenagers especially, are very impressionable. She doesn't have to tell her students how great it was to pose for playboy to maybe "influence" them to do it. If she has a student that really looks up to her, the act of doing it alone is impressionable enough.

And since Playboy or any other adult magazine (in the US at least) requires someone to be at least 18 years old to pose for a pictorial, please explain to me how that is anyone's business what someone who is then an adult chooses to be influenced by or do?

 

[Captain X]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Kids, teenagers especially, are very impressionable. She doesn't have to tell her students how great it was to pose for playboy to maybe "influence" them to do it. If she has a student that really looks up to her, the act of doing it alone is impressionable enough.

That's the same kind of reasoning that goes into a lot of paternalistic legislature.

 

[Captain X]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Talk about missing the point.

What point? There was no point, other than a weak attempt to try and paint this woman as a potential pedophile because she posed in Playboy.

 

[Rii]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Kids, teenagers especially, are very impressionable. She doesn't have to tell her students how great it was to pose for playboy to maybe "influence" them to do it. If she has a student that really looks up to her, the act of doing it alone is impressionable enough.

This would explain the glut of teachers in today's market.

 

[hyzmarca]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

If they choose to try and influence the students with their personal activities outside of school, then that would be wrong and they should be terminated. A teacher shouldn't be telling students "Posing for Playboy is great, you should try it" or "Why bother going to college when you can make tons of money as a stripper?" as that might influence the students to follow that path and has nothing to do with the proper performance of their job. However, I seriously doubt that would be a problem for most teachers to understand and avoid.

Kids, teenagers especially, are very impressionable. She doesn't have to tell her students how great it was to pose for playboy to maybe "influence" them to do it. If she has a student that really looks up to her, the act of doing it alone is impressionable enough.

And if John Glenn were a teacher he might influence some of his students to become an astronaut.

You know why most people don't become astronauts? It's for the same reason that most people don't pose for Playboy. The bar is set incredibly high, and there are very few slots available. It's pretty near impossible to actually make it.
And for that same reason, most people would jump at the chance if it was handed to them on a silver platter. You don't need to have John Glenn as a teacher to know that you should seize any opportunity to go into space.

Those who would pass up the opportunity to pose in Playboy are the same that would pass up the opportunity to go into space, those who are so Jaded that they've lost the ability to dream, and those who simply aren't interested in that sort of greatness.


And really, Playboy. No one reads Playboy for the pictures, not in this day and age. These days, we have this thing called the internet. If we wanted sexually titillating pictures, we could do a damn sight better than Playboy. We're all just a Google search away from a Brazilian lady sucking off a horse, and other things. No, people read Playboy for the articles, and the articles are fairly good.


And cheerleading? Seriously? Cheerleading is all about sex appeal, and has been so since the 70s, at the very latest. At the professional level, it's about providing the spectators with eye candy during half-time. At the high school level, it's about encouraging the athletes to perform better by implying that they could get lucky if they win. But it's a whlesome sort of sexuality, the girl next door sort of thing, rather than the two-dollar-ho sort of thing (though in some areas they're one and the same). If anything, the wholesome sexuality presented in Playbox is exactly what you want in a cheerleading coach, and her experience can only make her better at her job.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

You're missing the point that we live in a world still backward enough to even write such a thing into a contract. Depending upon the actual wording, she may still be able to sue and win.

There is nothing backward about parents demanding certain things from the people their children are exposed to. In fact it's rightfully expected and included as we see in this case.

Believing that beauty is immoral is backward. Teaching people to be ashamed of themselves is backward. An employer controlling the personal life of an employee is backward. Don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Gertch]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Believing that beauty is immoral is backward. Teaching people to be ashamed of themselves is backward.

I agree but none of that applies here at all.

An employer controlling the personal life of an employee is backward.

The only control exists is that which impacts the place of employment.

Don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.

I signed an NDA at work. I know exactly what you are talking about.

 

[RedFenix]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Oh yeah. That's the other shitty thing about working in education. Double standard or not, we keep our private lives private. It goes with the calling. In a perfect world, it would be ok to be a Playmate and a cheerleading coach, or an exotic dancer and an art teacher. It would even be ok to have public Facebook pages with pictures of people holding mysterious red party cups. But this ain't a perfect world...and until we (as teachers) have made it such, we keep working. Working for a better world on piss-poor pay.

The school was right to fire her. It sucks, but she should've known better.

maybe if the school payed a bit more she wouldn't of possed for playboy because the few extra bucks could of come in hand for her.

You're preaching to the choir, my friend. Teacher pay sucks. It's no big secret that is suddenly revealed once you land your own classroom. You go into the field knowing that you may have to work an odd job on the side just to make ends meet. But your "odd jobs" damn well better hold up to public scrutiny. That's the nature of the beast. Even in the most liberal of cities (and I happen to live in one!), people turn puritanical when it comes to who is dealing with their children. That's no big secret, either, and it's not just for teachers. Mom's doctor can pose for Playboy...but when it comes to little Johnny's pediatrician, she sure as hell better be a nun.

It's always different when it comes to people's kids. If you happen to work with them, you're measured with a different ruler and punished with a different stick. Even people who are against capital punishment feel that child molestors and murderers of children should be punished more severely than any other criminal. (I do!) It's because everyone agrees that children are important, and that children should receive the best.

By all means, a double standard. But again, you know that going into the field. Can't deal with that? Find another career.

 

[Augustus]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

You're missing the point that we live in a world still backward enough to even write such a thing into a contract. Depending upon the actual wording, she may still be able to sue and win.

There is nothing backward about parents demanding certain things from the people their children are exposed to. In fact it's rightfully expected and included as we see in this case.

Believing that beauty is immoral is backward. Teaching people to be ashamed of themselves is backward. An employer controlling the personal life of an employee is backward. Don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.

Beauty is not immoral. But exposing yourself so that men the world over can drool over you is certainly not moral

 

[FrontLine]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

Legally should she had been fired? Yes. She works in an at will environment and has a code of conduct that she agreed to adhere to.

Ethically should she have been fired? Nope. Posing for Playboy is no big thing. Probably the worst that will come out of this is the dads of the cheer leaders and that one closeted lesbian / bi on the squad will no rub one out to the pictorials, but in the end doesnt that make those people more loyal to the program?

Beauty is not immoral. But exposing yourself so that men the world over can drool over you is certainly not moral

Why?

 

[Yoda]

Re: Give me an F, give me an I, give me a R, give me an E, give me a D

You know what's way more harmful to children than a teacher posing for Playboy? Trying to pass off Intelligent Design as science.

Anyhow, this was at a public school right? All the at will stuff falls by the wayside for me, they need to fix their code of conduct so that stupid shit like this doesn't get people fired from government jobs.

If I had a business and decided I just plain didn't want any minorities working for me, I think that's more morally defensible than this government sponsored witch hunt.