Season 4 Finale as it was intended to be...

[Praetorian]

Hello!

I may be remembering wrong, but wasn't the Terran Arc supposed to be a 3 part episode? With the episode becomming a 2 parter to make room for TATV once they received the news of their cancelation?

Imagine if they still had gone with their original idea. The issues the episode tackled could have been explored more... They could have given some closure to the characters...
Mayweather returning to Earth with his former Girlfriend? Reed rejoining Section 31? Even T'pol and Trip marrying. And of course, it could have dealt more with the xenophobia plaguing Earth, with the different alien races overcomming their differences and forming the Alliance and so on...

I would only ask for something..that the last scene would be that very nice speech Archer gave, perhaps even morphing that scene into the Foundation of the Federation.
Picture Archer starting the speech as he did at the end of Terra Prime..the camera starts rotating around, and when it comes back to face the front we see that Archer is now making his speech 6 years later during the signing of the Federation Charter...
That was such a marvelous speech really..

And after that scene we could still have that nice montage from TATV..the only nice thing in that episode really...


Oh well, one can always dream...

 

[Count Zero]

Well, ENT usually didn't resolve arcs very well, the final episodes of the three-parters were always a bit weak. They really would have needed a fine script editor. Then again, I'd take a weak part three over TATV any time.
Well, the actual ENT story hidden in TATV wasn't that bad at its core. Archer once set out as a rather naive guy, just wanting to explore, then he finds out that there's a lot of violence and evil out there and he loses a lot, shipmates and (almost) his soul. So losing his best friend would have been the symbol of that. The question he asks towards the end, whether it's really worth all that is a very good one. His speech in Terra Prime would have been a good answer. In TATV it pretty much remained unanswered. But the whole plot around this theme was contrived and stupid and the characterisation was off for the most part, not to mention the bad dramturgy of having this play on the holodeck.

I would only ask for something..that the last scene would be that very nice speech Archer gave, perhaps even morphing that scene into the Foundation of the Federation.
Picture Archer starting the speech as he did at the end of Terra Prime..the camera starts rotating around, and when it comes back to face the front we see that Archer is now making his speech 6 years later during the signing of the Federation Charter...
That was such a marvelous speech really..

I like this idea.

 

[ChristopherPike]

^ That speech made up for many a gazelle.

Seriously, it did impress. With it's a positive message, urging exploration and acceptance of different cultures... At a time when our world was doing the exact opposite. Being inward looking and not finding agreement and common ground, even among allies.

These are the Voyages felt so negative as a story in comparison. I generally like Brannon Braga's contribution to ENT, especially during the darker Season 3. But watching Terra Prime, this show also needed an upbeat contributor like Manny Coto, taking the harsh edges off and injecting some optimism. Even faced with the death of T'Pol and Trip's child, he can't stop himself adding a moment where the characters take comfort in the possibilty a human and a Vulcan may still someday have a child.

 

[Count Zero]

Well, I wouldn't have minded TATV being negative or ending on a pessimistic note, if only it had been any good.
Trek shows are supposed to be optimistic over all, so a Trek series ending with the question "Is it worth it?" unanswered or otherwise ending on a bleak note would have been something different and I probably would have appreciated it (especially if the ending had been thought-provoking). You can hardly let a series end any bleaker than Blake's 7, yet it's one of my favourite shows.
The problem with TATV is that it's a very badly written episode. A lot of people here could have written something much better, even including the main points (incorporating Riker and Troi, Trip's death, appropriate end note for the franchise as a whole). Berman and Braga really screwed this up. I guess, it's sort of fitting that this happened, considering all the problems ENT had.
I hope there will be a new Trek series on TV someday so that this isn't remembered as the final episode of TV Trek. Star Trek deserves better.

 

[JiNX-01]

I like to think that had the Terra Prime arc gotten the 3rd chapter that Trip and T'Pol wouldn't have lost their baby; they'd get married and move into T'Pol's home to raise their child. Trip would work on designing a faster warp engine for Star Fleet and T'Pol would resume her diplomatic career as an envoy to Earth's embassy on Vulcan.

I did like the final scene in TATV with Archer, T'Pol and Phlox ... it was a nice touch ... but we could replace T'Pol with Hoshi in that scene to bring about the Federation and bring the series to an end that connects to the true "next generation" -- TOS.

 

[Middleman]

I like to think that had the Terra Prime arc gotten the 3rd chapter that Trip and T'Pol wouldn't have lost their baby; they'd get married and move into T'Pol's home to raise their child. Trip would work on designing a faster warp engine for Star Fleet and T'Pol would resume her diplomatic career as an envoy to Earth's embassy on Vulcan.

I feel the exactly same way you do about how the series should have ended. Your scenario was the direction they should have taken; There was no reason to go out on such a low note when there could have been a much happier ending. The only reason I can think of as to why they wrote TATV the way they did was B&B was waving a huge middle finger at the complaining fans.

 

[JiNX-01]

Actually, I think Bermaga were just trying to recapture their "glory days" at the expense of a show that drew harsh criticism and uneven fan support ...
The irony is that, whatever their intentions, they will be remembered for putting up what is ,IMO, the lamest, worst series/franchise finale in all of sci fi.

Valentine.

 

[commodore64]

Praetorian, I'm sorry to say I think your idea is much worse than what was actually given to us.

 

[Penguin]

Commodore, I liked both preatorian and Jinx01 ideas.

they give a ositive closure to the series having it end on a much happier note that what was given.

I have thought that a series end should be a lot like that of Mash. Everyone going to to better things .

all of the cast of course should be included in the last scenario of Praetorian and Jinx01. Promortions for Hoshi and Travis and reed. Arccher being made an admiral.

Yes, Trip and T-Pol married a fitting end to a romance that was mishandled in the series.

Why end the series on such a down note as was shown in the Valetine.

 

[Praetorian]

Praetorian, I'm sorry to say I think your idea is much worse than what was actually given to us.

You think that making the Terran Arc a 3 parter would be much worse than ending the series with TATV?
Or do you mean making the transition during Archer's speech?

The other things I said we're merely supposition of what the writers would have done, not really sugestions. I would not oppose them, in fact I would like it, but that you chose to disagree is simply a mater of taste, something which I have no problem with!
I'm just not sure what you mean...

The main point was that keeping the episode a 3 parter...as it was originally planed, and instead of TATV, making the necessary adjustments for it to become a series finale would most likely be better and more fulfuling than what we actually got.

Like it happened with Endgame, I do think the original intentions were better...

 

[Praetor]

I like to think that had the Terra Prime arc gotten the 3rd chapter that Trip and T'Pol wouldn't have lost their baby; they'd get married and move into T'Pol's home to raise their child. Trip would work on designing a faster warp engine for Star Fleet and T'Pol would resume her diplomatic career as an envoy to Earth's embassy on Vulcan.

I feel the exactly same way you do about how the series should have ended. Your scenario was the direction they should have taken; There was no reason to go out on such a low note when there could have been a much happier ending. The only reason I can think of as to why they wrote TATV the way they did was B&B was waving a huge middle finger at the complaining fans.

You know, I would have preferred they take T'Pol full circle with what to me they hinted at all along and let her essentially 'go native' and embrace her emotions as a human does - sort of the reverse of Spock. Let her become a diplomat for Earth rather than for Vulcan - perhaps representing them in the Coalition. Ironically, Earth's strongest and loudest proponent is now a Vulcan. Delicious!

I also think they should have taken the road not taken regarding her father...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Actually In a Mirror Darkly got the extra episode intended for the terra prime storyline, but they were probably just going to spend a bit longer noticing that there must be a traitor on board and looking for the traitor on board and finding the traitor on board... Considering that took the oname of a an offscreen character that had been being mentioned on and off constantly (as a female mostly.) in dialog since seaon one, it was a pretty pisspoor send off.

 

[Middleman]

You know, I would have preferred they take T'Pol full circle with what to me they hinted at all along and let her essentially 'go native' and embrace her emotions as a human does - sort of the reverse of Spock. Let her become a diplomat for Earth rather than for Vulcan - perhaps representing them in the Coalition. Ironically, Earth's strongest and loudest proponent is now a Vulcan. Delicious!

I would have been happy if she just embraced Trip, never mind her emotions!

I also think they should have taken the road not taken regarding her father...

Can you elaborate?

 

[ST-One]

Actually, I think Bermaga were just trying to recapture their "glory days" at the expense of a show that drew harsh criticism and uneven fan support ...
The irony is that, whatever their intentions, they will be remembered for putting up what is ,IMO, the lamest, worst series/franchise finale in all of sci fi.

Valentine.

IMO, Frakes and Sirtis should have refused to do this episode...

 

[JiNX-01]

You know, I would have preferred they take T'Pol full circle with what to me they hinted at all along and let her essentially 'go native' and embrace her emotions as a human does - sort of the reverse of Spock. Let her become a diplomat for Earth rather than for Vulcan - perhaps representing them in the Coalition. Ironically, Earth's strongest and loudest proponent is now a Vulcan. Delicious!

I would have been happy if she just embraced Trip, never mind her emotions!

I also think they should have taken the road not taken regarding her father...

Can you elaborate?

I believe that's a reference to fans' wish or suspicion that T'Pol's dad was a Romulan.

 

[Middleman]

I believe that's a reference to fans' wish or suspicion that T'Pol's dad was a Romulan.

Thanks. I did read that somewhere that Coto & Co. toyed with that idea for a season 5 story. Not exactly appealing to me personally.

 

[Middleman]

Actually In a Mirror Darkly got the extra episode intended for the terra prime storyline.

While the Mirror episodes were pretty good, they should have spent the episodes resolving NX-01 story lines. They would have been better off doing a coalition story, or a wedding.

 

[Count Zero]

I don't agree. In A Mirror, Darkly was one of the best things ENT did. It's also the best take on the mirror universe, in my opinion. I wouldn't want to give it up for some wedding scenes. I'm actually fine with the Terra Prime two-parter as it was aired. If that had been the finale of ENT, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, it isn't.

 

[Penguin]

Problem with IAMD is that it was a remake of the same two parter from TOS which was a lot more fun.

In the original two parter the actors wre having a Ball doing it.

The show's produceers and directors or cast didn't take it all that seriously and just had fun with it.

I think that ENT could have survived with out IAMD and gone with a three parter Terra Prime arc. Some things could have been resolved and Archer could have made his speech.

Wedding, sure why NOt. Always rady for one of those when it is someone else getting married.

 

[Michael]

Problem with IAMD is that it was a remake of the same two parter from TOS which was a lot more fun.

It was what?