Most Obnoxious: Neelix or Phlox?

[Michael]

Learning is good, and I'd like to learn too, so on that note, where do you see the writers implied it at all? You say they could have implied it "more strongly," but I didn't see them even hint at the merest hint of a possibility. But again, that could because of the eeeeeeeuuuuuuwwww-factor....

I guess just the fact that they were introduced as a couple implied to me that they're having sex. They didn't have to show more to let me think otherwise. Usually when they present a couple on TV it's assumed that they're getting intimate. I actually think it's the other way around: They never implied that Kes and Neelix did not have sex. I would expect for a TV show to do that if they wanted to convey a relationship were sex is not an issue.

 

[JustKate]

^ See, I kind of thought they did, with Neelix talking in the early episodes about how "Kes is very young" and all that. Maybe the writers had an eeeeeuuuuuuwwww! reaction, too? Kidding! Well, sort of.

 

[Michael]

^ Well, then I guess I just remember it differently. I can't think of moments where he says that. One must also take into account that Voyager is maybe the Trek series I have watched the least since it's initial broadcast on TV. It's the only series I don't own on DVD. It's actually possible that it's close to ten years ago since I last saw the first season of Voyager. Man, I was so young back then. Maybe I would look at things from a completely new perspective if I'd watch it now.

 

[exodus]

But NCC, if they'd wanted us to think they'd had sex, don't you think they would have shown something? I mean, you sure the heck could tell, with at least some certainty, when Kirk had had sex, and that was 1960s television. If they could do it in 1967, why not with Voyager?

People do have romances without sex, you know, at least at first. To me, the Kes/Neelix thing always came across as chaste young love, at least as far as Kes was concerned.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I really don't. And I know that people can have relationships without sex. (Actually I even know people who do.) It's just that I never ever doubted Kes and Neelix had sex. I mean, it's not like I thought about it that much. I just assumed they had a romantic relationship which involved sex. I agree, it could have been implied more strongly by the writers. But I guess there just never was a story that demanded to actually allude to their sexual life.

However, I can see now how people never thought they had sex. That's what this board is great for; getting new perspectives on things.

In modern times, a couple would imply a sexual relastionship. During our Grandparents age, it didn't. A couple were just people that held hands & kissed. Sex before marriage was considered TABOO!!

Who's to say Neelix & Kes didn't share an old fashioned relationship?

 

[Praetor]

I also always assumed that Neelix and Kes were having sex since they were in a relationship, which was just another thing about that relationship that freaked me out...

 

[JustKate]

^ What gave you that idea either than the fact that they were "in a relationship"? There's lots of kinds of relationships, as you know. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am saying that I cannot remember any evidence of it besides the "in a relationship" thing. Can you?

In the meantime, I can rest easy, knowing that even if there was a sexual relationship, I don't have to acknowledge it since it didn't happen on camera and wasn't even implied on camera, as far as I can recall. So even if I'm wrong, I can pretend I'm right and can thus avoid too much euw-ing. Hooray!

 

[exodus]

Plus, after knowing Kes was pre-pubesent. I don't see any Trek writer or producer condoning under-age sex or rape. So I'd like to assume do to that they weren't getting their swirve on.

However, once again I think it's a flaw with not thinking out the character Kes properly. You never knew how to veiw what age she was compared to that of humans. One minute they're calling her a "little girl" the next they have her making adult choices.

 

[JustKate]

^ That's how I feel, too. But then again, we have to take into account my "eeeeeeeuuuuuwwww!" factor.

You make a good point, Exodus, about the inconsistency in her characterization. Jennifer Lein herself never really came across as a little girl, but some of the writing sort of leaned that way.

 

[Praetor]

^ What gave you that idea either than the fact that they were "in a relationship"? There's lots of kinds of relationships, as you know. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am saying that I cannot remember any evidence of it besides the "in a relationship" thing. Can you?

Well, no. I just felt that it was implied that they were in a romantic relationship (particularly in 'Caretaker' and a few other season one instances) and that by extension that it was probably a sexual one. (And then came 'Elogium.' )

In the meantime, I can rest easy, knowing that even if there was a sexual relationship, I don't have to acknowledge it since it didn't happen on camera and wasn't even implied on camera, as far as I can recall. So even if I'm wrong, I can pretend I'm right and can thus avoid too much euw-ing. Hooray!

Oh I agree totally.

 

[JustKate]

^ I knew I wouldn't get any argument from you on that.

 

[Praetor]

 

[QuasarVM]

Neelix. He's like the Jar Jar of Star Trek.

 

[JustKate]

^ Please don't tell me JarJar was having a sexual relationship with anybody. Really. Don't tell me. I do NOT want to know.

 

[QuasarVM]

^ Please don't tell me JarJar was having a sexual relationship with anybody. Really. Don't tell me. I do NOT want to know.

That makes TWO of us...

 

[Praetor]

Bombad!

 

[kissthestar]

I'm trying to recall. They lived together at first, right? But I don't recall seeing anything resembling passion there. Neelix's famous jealousy seemed kind of elementary school to me.

 

[kimc]

There is, IMO, absolutely no hint throughout the time that Kes is on Voyager that she and Neelix have gone much beyond hand-holding. Sorry, Kimc, but I just don't see it. Sure, it's possible, but if so, it's one of those things that the writers chose not to show us or even hint to us.

Well they did make out in the mess hall while the rest of the ship was dealing with being inside a nebula.

The point I've been trying to make though is that you can't apply human sexuality to an alien species like the Ocampa. Humans generally go through puberty before becoming sexually active. Who is to say things don't work differently for Ocampans?

Personally I don't care either way. It just strikes me as odd to apply human standards to aliens, that's all.

 

[JustKate]

Sure, but...

What other standards have we got? Kind of a shortage of sentient species here on ol' Mother Earth...

 

[kimc]

Sure, but...

What other standards have we got? Kind of a shortage of sentient species here on ol' Mother Earth...

I get that. However, part of the joy of Trek (at least for me) is opening my mind to the possibility that there are places and beings that don't follow our earthbound rules. Silicon lifeforms, for example.

 

[JustKate]

^ Oh, I know. You make a sensible and sensitive statement, and I joke. Sorry. I agree, but I just could not resist. I should have given up smartassity for Lent instead of wine.