World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Tell me more pleeze
So he can't travel where he wants to?

 

As far as I know, Spock created a black hole to stop the supernova that threatened to destroy the entire galaxy, but was sucked into it - along with Nero and his Nerada...
Furthermore, it seems that Spock and Nero didn't end up in the same past, with Nero travelling much further back in time...

 

Regarding the "faulty science" of the movie, if I can accept faster-than-light travel, everything else is pretty easy to swallow.

 

Cool. Thanks, must have missed that. Sounds good. Seems the only problem I have left is with the bridge design...
but does that mean Nero is wandering around in that timeline for 20 years?

 

I'm sure I've heard somewhere that Spock emerges from the singularity at the same time the Narada attacks the Kelvin? I think Nero and Spock do hop through time though, otherwise how do you explain the fact that neither of them appear to have aged by the time Kirk comes aboard the Enterprise? And what the heck is Nero up to in the decades between Kirk's birth and the launch of Enterprise?

 

I... don't... know... because... I... was... neither... in... Austin... nor... in... Sydney... I... just... read... and... analyse... and... make... educated... guesses...

 

Honestly, my impression from what I've read.

1) As a stand alone entity, this movie is going to kick serious ass.
2) J.J. is going to need WITSEC help from some long time fans after all the changes they made.

Rage.

That and Vulcans have always shown a bit of arrogance towards other, less evolved species.

 

In DS9's case, they did something very right. Originally, it was rather bland but what we got after the Defiant showed up was my favorite trek. It brought trek back to reality.

 

My dad LOVED it he's still talking about it today which never happens with movies generally he falls a sleep, he said coming out there isn't a trek fan who wouldn't enjoy it. He has obviously has not been on the internet ever. But I share his sentiment seeing the film with the performances I am looking forward to the sequel and so is he, and as he said Sylar wasn't sylar he was spock.

 

Unfortunately it didn't reduce the erosion of viewership.

 

Enterprise returned to the same timeline it left. We've all seen it.

 

Now THAT I can understand and sympathize with. But that was a foregone conclusion. No McCoy. No Scotty. It's like The Beatles without Harrison and Ringo. And, honestly, I'm not at all sure how long The Shat has left before a coronary takes him down.

At the same time, it helps to appreciate the immensity of the thing that Trek - And the fans - has created. I have called it "America's Illiad:" a true, lasting American Mythology.

American. Based on hope for the future, not wars of the past. Exploration rather than conquest. How's that for old-timey? ~grin~ Still - if you can wrap your head around that, Kirk and the crew are no longer just a character from a sixties TV show, but an mythic icons. It's a thin pantheon, especially if you remove comic book characters.

Better to think this:

Star Trek, Like Superman, has become something that so encapsulates what we think is best in our culture that we choose not to let it die. At this point, at least fifteen people have given life to Superman - but it is not the actors, but the character of Superman that our culture clings to. He is more than his visage, or the actors who have played him.

We can miss what we have lost - but we should not deny the future their own contribution to the mythos.

 

As I said in a previous post - or said in part (this will be more detailed) - Batman didn't bother me because it was a comic book, and comic books have long suffered the curse of shoddy continuity and multiple resets. It's one of the top reasons I don't read comic books. I like a whole, cohesive continuity.

That DOESN'T mean I am so obsessed with "canon" that I freak out over little things. When all is said and done, Batman is just a comic book (and movie and TV show), Star Trek is just a tv show, etc. They're not real, and mistakes will happen. That's fine. However, on a macro level, I want consistent continuity. I don't want to have Batman killed and then later on have them reboot the series and have Batman alive again. That's why I have only ever paid attention to Batman very tangentially, and in fact I approach Batman stories of whatever form with the "closed box" attitude. When I watch or read Batman, it's just for the current story and has no bearing on any past or future events.

To me, this causes Batman to have a lot less depth than it could. Batman, to me, is a guy in a Batsuit who fights villains. That's the ONLY thing that Batman is, for it's the only thing that remains constant over various incarnations. If Batman had a more cohesive continuity, I could get into it FAR more.

I don't want Star Trek to be a comic book. One of the things that's always been great about it has been it's continuity, and again, on a macro level. If there is some line in some episode that happens to contradict some minor point, like Picard's favorite candy or Kirk's place of birth, well you know what? I can live with that. Big difference, however, between that and big continuity problems, which Star Trek has never really had.

But with the Abramsverse, that's not even at issue because it's specifically built to maintain some connection of the continuity. Thus, the problem I have with it is not continuity, but that it's taking the characters I knew and making them facsimiles of themselves. Please don't respond to this last point in this post, for it's the most important thing and I'm getting into IT in better depth in response to other posts.

 

I'm not quite ready to give them that much leeway. The result is the same: Kirk and the crew failed. They had the resources of an entire starship, if not StarFLEET, at their disposal, and still they failed. That's the only thing that matters in the end.

I would expect Sarek and the rest of the survivors of Vulcan to hold Kirk in very low regard after this. Given that, in ST III Sarek can get quite obviously pissed at Kirk for failing to save *one person* (Spock) how will he react when Kirk allowed - however accidentally - the ENTIRE PLANET VULCAN to be destroyed?

To put it another way: Nero went batshit insane because of the destruction of Romulus, when no one was at fault - it was a purely natural force. Vulcan was *deliberately* destroyed. How would YOU expect the remaining Vulcan population to react? If Nero can fall off the deep end, so can they, right?

 

I understand your thoughts, but one important point: it's not the actors that I care about. Tell stories of Kirk with Pine, or whoever best fits the role. Urban gives such a perfect Mccoy it gives me shivers.

What I care about is the characters. These characters in the Abramsverse are not the same characters as the Prime universe characters. They are like clones who are the same in every way except for the experiences they have had. I've "been through" experiences with the Prime crew. I was there when Spock died, and when the crew sacrificed themselves to bring him back, and when Scotty started the bar fight on station K-7... When I see the Abrams Scotty, however much his personality matches, he isn't the guy who started that fight. He may be the same biologically, but those things which we "went through together" and which caused me to come to care about him (as much as one can and ought to care about a fictional character, of course) have never happened to him.

 

I'm not one of those fans who thinks Gene Roddenberry's vision is what mattered most. I like a lot of his vision, and I dislike some of it as well. I like Star Trek for what it WAS, not what Roddenberry wanted it to be (though I like some of what he wanted it to be). In other words, I watched Star Trek and liked it, whatever was going on behind the scenes.

 

Laserlike42: Give the new crew forty years, and there would be the same feeling by people who are now in grade school. They deserve that chance. We can't - and shouldn't - try to recapture the past. You and I had one hell of a good run. Let the kids have theirs.

 

"Heroes Reborn."

Disappointing.

 

I know this has been explained before, but to save the trouble of digging for it, what exact event caused the creation of the Alt universe? Thanks.

 

You misunderstand me. Yes, I do like the spinoff shows, but that's unimportant because we can get at what I feel if we discuss only my love of TOS.

I agree 1000% with the statement "What is Star Trek? To me it's Kirk, Spock, the Enterprise, SF elements and a certain optimistic tone," especially the first part. The characters are deeply associated with Star Trek being Star Trek to me, and the thing is that the characters in this film are NOT Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. In fact we can clearly see it by the fact that there are two Spocks - the Spock who I know and came to love as a character over 79 episodes and 6 feature films, and the other Spock, who hasn't been through any of that and is for all intents and purposes nothing more than a clone. I don't care about these new characters the way I do the old, because I haven't "sat down with them" for the past few decades
to watch their adventures.

Perhaps there is a deep philisophical divide here. Is a person a person because of their genes, or because of their experiences? To me, it is both. Kirk prime is a completely different ontological reality from the Abrams Kirk because, while he shares the chromosomes, he does not share the experiences. So to me, this is not Trek because it does not have Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, but facsimilies.

I don't know if you have seen much Voyager, but there was an episode where strange things begin happening to the crew and it turns out at the end that this was a crew made up of some sort of aliens which had absorbed the crew's DNA and now thought they were the crew. If you didn't see it, the analogy doesn't help. But if you have, then let me say that watching this Abrams crew is, for me, what it would be like if that alien crew became the main crew of Voyager and we didn't see the original crew any more. I just wouldn't care about the show anymore.