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World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

All that remains of the old friend are the memories. There will be no new experiences. There can be new experiences, new stories, with this "new" Star Trek - the new versions of the characters that haven't been through all the things we remember, but never again will we have new experiences with the prime universe characters.

I understand what you're saying, they could've told a story about Kirk and the others in the "prime" universe. But they didn't. Those characters lived out their lives and the events of that universe led to the new one. The prime universe existed as it did and everything in that universe led up to the moment Nero (and Spock) get thrown into that black hole. There is no time paradox or anything like that going on here.

The thing to remember here is Orci and Kurtzman looked at time travel in a different way than Trek typically has. Orci in his (now famous?) interview about quantum physics tried to explain it. Nero being thrown back in time didn't change anything, it created a new thing. Those most affected by what happened will have the most different lives from the prime timeline (or any other timeline not contaminated by Nero). Nero and Spock are trapped in this timeline. Even if they go back to the 24th century, it would be the 24th century of this timeline, not the prime one.

The odd thing is this "multidimensional" theory of timelines and universes and such has a growing number of critics in physics these days. Something about how a theory of infinite timelines with infinite possibilities with supposed answers for everything raises questions about its falsifiability. In other words, the theory is untestable. Or, as one put it, a theory that answers everything answers nothing. That's the best I grasped it (and can remember) listening to some physicists on NPR a few days back.

Well, there's a few ideas about time travel that they could have used. There's a great physics section on arXiv with a lot of time travel stuff, but basically, there's the many-worlds theory, which this film used to explain how everything in the prime universe isn't affected by the changes caused by Nero. That's one way of avoiding a paradox - the other is using something called the Novikov self-consistency principle which can be used to deal with things like this (and could in theory be used to match up this universe and the "prime" universe should it be so desired).

Basically, Nero's changes merely altered the way events occured, but didn't actually disrupt the flow of the universe enough to consider a paradox. For instance "Amok Time" still occurs, but this time on New Vulcan, and other Vulcan based stories can be moved to this new planet. The Dominion still exists in the Gamma Quadrant, and Voyager can still get sent to the Delta Quadrant, and (sigh) Nemesis can still occur, albeit with slight alterations to backstory. Plus, hopefully, Generations, Plato's Stepchildren and Spock's Brain all get invalidated too...

Basically, the time travel stuff has multiple ways of preserving the overall continuity of the universe, and the way it's been done ensures that there's quite a few ways to get out of future story problems while staying true to the overall mythos.

Actually, come to think of it, we've been through this before - First Contact had the Borg disrupting the original events that led to Zefram Cochrane's warp flight, thus causing the Enterprise to go back to a different universe than the one it came from. It shunted us into a new universe where Starfleet had knowledge of the Borg before Q Who? and thus was different to the original universe where that episode was the first encounter. Did anyone complain about that back then?
 
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There is nothing wrong with the Roddenberry universe as a setting. It just needs good writers not shackled by overbearing studio suits like Berman.

... not shackled by forty-three years of half-baked, thrown-together, overconvoluted canon.

Apparently I'm not the only one with that opinion...
'[...] seeing those accumulated centuries of established continuity crumble into dust doesn't feel like a betrayal - it feels like a liberation.'

http://www.sfx.co.uk/page/sfx?entry=film_review_star_trek
 
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So, no Amok Time. And now, no Journey to Babel, either. Oh well. :(
Someone call Paramount and let them know so that they don't release those episodes on the new blu-ray collection. They never happened and we'll never see them again. Ever.
 
I did not cry when TNG came out. That I had no problem with, for it tried to build on TOS and tell some interesting stories in the same universe, with those same characters from TOS having been real, historical figures to the characters of TNG. McCoy, Spock, and Scotty even interacted with this new crew, as it was the same universe, just in the future. In this case, it's not trying to build on TOS, but to redo it in the way the creators want to now. It's technically keeping the original timeline, but for all of the characters moving forward, unlike in TNG, the characters from TOS will NOT be real historical figures to the crew, or anything similar. When I sit and watch this new crew, I know that to them, the characters I remember never existed.
Guess you aren't that familiar with the history of TNG's production. Gene Roddenberry originally wanted no references to the original series -- no mentions of previous Enterprises, characters, no appearances by Vulcans, Klingons or Romulans, no apparent connection with TOS -- ever. Roddenberry even originally thought about just calling the show "Star Trek." It was people like Justman, Gerald, and Fontana who convinced Roddenberry there had to be some familiar elements and fought for their inclusion. Roddenberry didn't give two f*cks about it. He wanted it to be a completely new show breaking away from the past completely.
 
I did not cry when TNG came out. That I had no problem with, for it tried to build on TOS and tell some interesting stories in the same universe, with those same characters from TOS having been real, historical figures to the characters of TNG. McCoy, Spock, and Scotty even interacted with this new crew, as it was the same universe, just in the future. In this case, it's not trying to build on TOS, but to redo it in the way the creators want to now. It's technically keeping the original timeline, but for all of the characters moving forward, unlike in TNG, the characters from TOS will NOT be real historical figures to the crew, or anything similar. When I sit and watch this new crew, I know that to them, the characters I remember never existed.
Guess you aren't that familiar with the history of TNG's production. Gene Roddenberry originally wanted no references to the original series -- no mentions of previous Enterprises, characters, no appearances by Vulcans, Klingons or Romulans, no apparent connection with TOS -- ever. Roddenberry even originally thought about just calling the show "Star Trek." It was people like Justman, Gerald, and Fontana who convinced Roddenberry there had to be some familiar elements and fought for their inclusion. Roddenberry didn't give two f*cks about it.
QFFT
 
This movie is as bad as that time when TMP erased the TOS klingons from history. I cried all night.

By the way, isn't this a spoiler thread or something?
 
Let me explain it this way: in the analogy, the old friend is Star Trek. The time spent with him are the new episodes and films - the new experiences. The memories are the DVDs and the re-runs... they are going back over previous experiences.
I get what you're saying, I just think it's nonsense. What is Star Trek? To me it's Kirk, Spock, the Enterprise, SF elements and a certain optimistic tone. By my definition, Voyager and Enterprise ain't Star Trek. Never were. Not that I can't enjoy the odd episode of one of Rick Berman's spinoff franchise(TM) shows, but it isn't Star Trek to me, any more than a Sherlock Holmes spinoff featuring Holmes' great grandson Elmer Josephat solving modern day crimes is actually a Sherlock Holmes story. If this movie, featuring Kirk and Spock, captures the tone and spirit of Star Trek, then as far as I'm concerned this is closer to actually being real Star Trek than was Voyager, Enterprise, or any other Trek "spinoff." The geeky crap everyone keeps bringing up about differences between the real fake universe vs. the fake fake universe has no bearing to me on whether or not I judge this movie to be Star Trek.
 
By the way, isn't this a spoiler thread or something?

:lol: Kinda peetered out, didn't it?

Let me try to get it back on thread:
I still want someone to tell me where the tribble is. I don't want to spend the entire movie concentrating so hard on trying to spot that hairball I miss other things. I need to know now so I can have peace of mind. When does the tribble appear?
 
If JJ really wanted us to "forget everything we know", or whatever bullshit line he used, he should have TRULY started out fresh and new... show us a new ship, at the dawn of the 25th century, with new characters, that explores a whole new galaxy! No more Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, or Borg... all new, all fresh, and still 100% Star Trek.
Then they could work on their next project, an all-new Sherlock Holmes mystery! But to keep it fresh, they have to drop Holmes, Watson, and that stuffy ninteenth century time period and start over with new characters and adventures. But it's still 100% Sherlock Holmes... somehow.
There's a segment of fandom that truly believes that, say, the adventures of Captain Miller aboard the Enterprise G in the 25th Century who's using his axolinear computer and his singularity torpedos to fight the Zürgg menace while waiting for his turn to use the holodome is "all new" and "all fresh".
LOL, QFT.
 
I still want someone to tell me where the tribble is. I don't want to spend the entire movie concentrating so hard on trying to spot that hairball I miss other things. I need to know now so I can have peace of mind. When does the tribble appear?

It's funny, I think at least two advance reviews mention that the viewer looked for it but couldn't find it. I'm almost curious if it flies by the screen as a piece of space debris! :p
 
Is the Constitution-class starship Kirk sees under construction in Iowa stated to be the Enterprise?

Any indication of how long Pike and Spock have served together?

Is Kirk's stepping aboard the Enterprise his first time in space (apart from his birth on the escape shuttle)?

What about Kirk's mother and the rest of his family? What happens to them?

Do we see any Klingon ships in the Kobayashi Maru simulation? Are they the familiar D7-class battlecruisers as seen in TWoK?

Is there a tribble in it?
 
I've been thinking, having read the Countdown tie-in comic, could Spock Prime or Nero deposit some red matter in the Hobus star and thereby prevent the destruction of Romulus in this timeline?
 
Multiple canons in Star Trek...as if one wasn't confusing enough.

I know!! Like, they didn't even Mention Doctor Zee in the New Galactica - and Starbuck was a chick!! And they had something like four earths at the end.

Maybe five, if you include the one with Doctor Zee and the space scouts on it.

I almost pulled my hair out in frustration. Some Mexican Almost guy was playing Lorne Greene, and they replaced Lew Ayers with some lady with cancer, and then there were like a kabillion Colonel Tys all through history... and they were all white except one!

And no Daggit monkeys either.

Am I doing this argument right?

Brilliant dude! Brilliant!

Hoping for Galactica 1981 were we?? and we got 'THAT' piece of crap!!
 
I've been thinking, having read the Countdown tie-in comic, could Spock Prime or Nero deposit some red matter in the Hobus star and thereby prevent the destruction of Romulus in this timeline?
Uh-oh, hole in the plot! :)

I mean even without whatever happens in the countdown comics.
Guy has a friggin TIME MACHINE.
He can do whatever he wants: undo what happened, warn past Nero, evacuate Romulus 100 years in the past, save their loved ones from the catastrophe, equip past Romulus with Borg technology and kick the Vulcan's asses.
Is there anything in the movie to explain why Nero goes on his (lengthy) "destroy all Fed planets" plan instead of changing the timeline to his favor somehow? At least "Ok let's destroy Vulcan first, save Romulus tomorrow"?
 
By the way, isn't this a spoiler thread or something?

:lol: Kinda peetered out, didn't it?

Let me try to get it back on thread:
I still want someone to tell me where the tribble is. I don't want to spend the entire movie concentrating so hard on trying to spot that hairball I miss other things. I need to know now so I can have peace of mind. When does the tribble appear?

We're already bored with this movie, so we're discussing more interesting things.

Like canon violations and the cancellation of Enterprise. That's where the breaking news is.
 
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