Cadet to Captain...NOT!!!

[Augustus]

Why in the world would McCoy be at the academy?

Learning how not to flush his ass out the zero-gravity toilet. A medical degree doesn't make someone into a space explorer.

McCoy isn't a space explorer he's a doctor. He's there to heel sick people. Sure he may go through a short officer training program, but not a four year program.

An institution like Starfleet has no reason to teach medicine. There are already plenty of institutions that do that. Star fleet's focus is teaching how to operate and maintain starships. Something you probably can't learn anywhere else.

I am curious on how you know exactly what the fake institution called Starfleet teaches in its equally fake courses.
It's a movie. I am sure that all of this will be explained in the movie. After the movie, if you still don't like what star fleet is doing with its cadets/command structure and such, then we can complain.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

McCoy isn't a space explorer he's a doctor.

As we know from almost forty years of this thing, he's both - and does just about everything that other officers do except take command of the vessel.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

An institution like Starfleet has no reason to teach medicine. There are already plenty of institutions that do that. Star fleet's focus is teaching how to operate and maintain starships. Something you probably can't learn anywhere else.

Well, if we go by previous filmed Treks. Then, it has been established that Starfleet does have a medical program since Dr. Julian Bashir (DS9) graduated from Starfleet Medical Academy -- a medical school associated with Starfleet Medical and SFA.

See:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_Medical_Academy


It's possible that McCoy was already a doctor and is participating in a Starfleet version of OCS, or he's attending this Medical Academy. Guess we'll find out which when the movie comes out.

 

[FemurBone]

An institution like Starfleet has no reason to teach medicine. There are already plenty of institutions that do that. Star fleet's focus is teaching how to operate and maintain starships. Something you probably can't learn anywhere else.

I am curious on how you know exactly what the fake institution called Starfleet teaches in its equally fake courses.
It's a movie. I am sure that all of this will be explained in the movie. After the movie, if you still don't like what star fleet is doing with its cadets/command structure and such, then we can complain.

That is how Gene Roddenberry and the original writers always described Star Fleet. Medical officers and Science officers don't go there; at least not for four years.

That was why those early medical officers in TOS were old men. They had already been doctors for years before they joined starfleet. Even McCoy is supposed to be about 12 years older than Kirk.

It is also the reason why medical officers tend to be more casual than the rest of the crew. They did not undergo extensive military like training.

 

[FemurBone]

Well, if we go by previous filmed Treks. Then, it has been established that Starfleet does have a medical program since Dr. Julian Bashir (DS9) graduated from Starfleet Medical Academy -- a medical school associated with Starfleet Medical and SFA.
.

That institution was invented in DS9 after Roddenberry had died. Berman and his writers changed alot of Trek's rules. There was no Starfleet Medical Academy in TOS or TNG.

I don't recall Spock, Crusher or Troi ever going to the academy.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Kirk makes captain in this movie? SO WHAT!!??? Its a fricking movie and if it puts people in that theatre and they like it and they are not star trek fans? Good!!! Thats what its all about!!!

Rob

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Kirk makes captain in this movie? SO WHAT!!??? Its a fricking movie and if it puts people in that theatre and they like it and they are not star trek fans? Good!!! Thats what its all about!!!

Rob

I have to agree.

and by the way rob nice avatar.

 

[Augustus]

Kirk makes captain in this movie? SO WHAT!!??? Its a fricking movie and if it puts people in that theatre and they like it and they are not star trek fans? Good!!! Thats what its all about!!!

Rob

I have to agree.

and by the way rob nice avatar.

Ditto on both counts!!

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

That is how Gene Roddenberry and the original writers always described Star Fleet. Medical officers and Science officers don't go there; at least not for four years.

Please point us to the specific line of dialogue where that was stated. AFIK, there hasn't been an uttered word about SFA and medical officers in TOS or TNG, it's all speculation and up to interpretation, as the writers of this movie have done.

I don't recall Spock, Crusher or Troi ever going to the academy.

Spock was said to have been a graduate of the Academy.

Troi was also stated as an Academy graduate. I don't recall anything about Crusher.

That institution was invented in DS9 after Roddenberry had died. Berman and his writers changed alot of Trek's rules. There was no Starfleet Medical Academy in TOS or TNG.

There are those pesky canonistas... if it's filmed, it's canon.

But I have disagreed with a lot of Trek done Post-Roddenberry, With-Roddenberry and everything in between. Hell, that's just me

 

[FemurBone]

Kirk makes captain in this movie? SO WHAT!!??? Its a fricking movie and if it puts people in that theatre and they like it and they are not star trek fans? Good!!! Thats what its all about!!!

Rob

Star Trek's long term appeal was always based on it making logical sense.

"Check your brain at the door" Science fiction has a very short shelf life.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Kirk makes captain in this movie? SO WHAT!!???

Of course he will make Captain. We've always known that. The question is how quickly he does it.

Going straight from Cadet to Captain is quite obviously bullshit. Nobody does that. Having Kirk do it would kill the film. Fortunately, it doesn't look like he will, since when Kirk is on the ship he wears a black shirt, and cadets wear red suits.

If black-shirted Kirk is a Lieutenant or thereabouts, then it *might* not be so bad. The best thing for them to do there would be to have Lieutenant Commander Kirk be the captain (by position, not rank), although I doubt Starfleet would do that with a top-of-the-line ship like this.

 

[perigee]

OK - somebody remind me where Kirk "makes Captain." I just saw him take command of the vessel. Sheesh.

Who said Enterprise is even commissioned yet? It was in ground-build stage within the realm of the movie - who knows if it wasn't undergoing final fit in spacedock when it was pulled out? If you have a crew of cadets out there when all hell breaks loose, you'd go with what you've got. There is not necessarily an actual crew of the 1701 yet.

The ship is blasted, The CO is indisposed, the board's lit up like a christmas tree, Scotty is trying to hold it together, Cadet Coward says, "let's run away - we have no captain..." Kirk says, "screw that - the nasty bore-drilling laser that's slamming San Francisco Bay may aim for Iowa next, I'm kicking its ass."

It's all very gee-whiz, but it looks like a gee whiz movie. I'd buy that for a dollar.

 

[Pegasus]

I think it was because no one else wanted the responsibility of going up against Nero. Cadet Kirk had to prove himself to Pike and himself.

 

[perigee]

Additional thoughts:

Remembering we're talkiing about TOS, not TNG or later, The Enterprise was an Earth ship, originally under the command of the UESPA; Spock appeared to be the only alien on board. Whether Spock would be considered in the formal UESPA command structure for Enterprise is debateable, considering the relationship between Earth and Vulcan in ENTERPRISE. Maybe that "Debate" is the fisticuffs we saw on the bridge.

 

[Daikirai]

It's handled well, but if this point is too difficult for some to accept...just don't see the movie. It's not aimed at those who can't accept change and a breath of fresh air in their lives.

 

[Longinus]

It's handled well

And you know this how?

 

[pookha]

Learning how not to flush his ass out the zero-gravity toilet. A medical degree doesn't make someone into a space explorer.

McCoy isn't a space explorer he's a doctor. He's there to heel sick people. Sure he may go through a short officer training program, but not a four year program.

An institution like Starfleet has no reason to teach medicine. There are already plenty of institutions that do that. Star fleet's focus is teaching how to operate and maintain starships. Something you probably can't learn anywhere else.

I am curious on how you know exactly what the fake institution called Starfleet teaches in its equally fake courses.
It's a movie. I am sure that all of this will be explained in the movie. After the movie, if you still don't like what star fleet is doing with its cadets/command structure and such, then we can complain.

actually i could see a lot of reasons why a previously earth based doctor would be required to go through a long range training program.

even if you had seen aliens in your practice it is nothing like you are going to encounter in starfleet.

plus, consider a big part of what startfleet did was deal with an seemingly endless supply of odd diseases, plagues ect.

enterprise spent a lot of time ferrying around or looking for medicine.

so training for a doctor would probably ential both time at the academy plus time training on other planets before you even get a berth of conseqence on a ship.

 

[Daikirai]

It's handled well

And you know this how?

I've seen the movie at a prescreening. All but the most cranky Luddites will enjoy it.

 

[Longinus]

It's handled well

And you know this how?

I've seen the movie at a prescreening. All but the most cranky Luddites will enjoy it.

All right, good enough. I just have to hope that I won't qualify as a cranky Luddite.

 

[JuanBolio]

Or it could be they are all "acting officers". Kirk takes command of the Enterprise so he is Acting Captain, McCoy is Acting Chief Medical Officer and Scotty is Acting Chief Engineer which means both must be Acting Lt Commanders.

I'm almost certain this is the case. I also think its highly likely he doesn't keep the rank of captain past the end of the movie.