THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN: A fitting name!

[Christopher]

Is nobody watching season 2 then?

Unfortunately, those of us in the US won't get to see Season 2 until the summer. The show has moved from The CW to the recently rebranded Disney XD channel (formerly Toon Disney), and they're starting over next week with the first season. It'll be 14 weeks before we get to see S2. Which is most frustrating.

 

[CaptainCanada]

And I love that Captain Stacey pretty much knows that Parker is Spider-Man, and the nudge-nudge-wink-wink comments between the two of them.

They were on the verge of overdoing his "subtle" comments, though they seem to have scaled those back in more recent episodes.

Gwen's new look is taking a bit of getting used to (it's the eyes, especially; her wearing glasses made her eyes look smaller than the other characters' on the show, now she's got these huge baby blues).

 

[Servo]

And I love that Captain Stacey pretty much knows that Parker is Spider-Man, and the nudge-nudge-wink-wink comments between the two of them.

They were on the verge of overdoing his "subtle" comments, though they seem to have scaled those back in more recent episodes.

What I'd really like to see is it evolving into a Batman/Jim Gordon kind of relationship, with the obvious exception that Stacey would know Spidey's identity.

Sucks that you guys in the US don't get to see it (legally) til the summer. That's a hell of a wait.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Yeah, the American networks are definitely giving them a rogering in terms of schedule; Canada, the UK, South America, Australia, are churning out this and Wolverine and the X-Men far faster.

Regarding Peter and Captain Stacy, I'll be interested to see how Peter dating Gwen (which is clearly coming; poor Liz) will factor into that. I'm sure he's thrilled at the idea of his daughter dating a superhero (though she already got in Doc Ock's crosshairs because she's his child).

 

[Servo]

Yeah, the American networks are definitely giving them a rogering in terms of schedule; Canada, the UK, South America, Australia, are churning out this and Wolverine and the X-Men far faster.

Yeah, I caught Wolverine and the X-Men on the CBBC channel over here. They were airing a new episode everyday, which was awesome.
Not sure what channel (if any) is showing Spidey over here though. The ones I watch have a Nick(elodeon) DOG in the top corner, but not sure which country's Nick it comes from. I do know that the last episode (2x13) airs in Australia tomorrow though. Should be a great episode judging by the synopsis I've read.

 

[Servo]

Regarding Peter and Captain Stacy, I'll be interested to see how Peter dating Gwen (which is clearly coming; poor Liz) will factor into that. I'm sure he's thrilled at the idea of his daughter dating a superhero (though she already got in Doc Ock's crosshairs because she's his child).

Excellent point. It also makes me wonder if, being that it's a cartoon, the writers will have the courage to kill her off in the future or not. Man, it would be a hell of a 2nd season finale if Pete and Gwen got together, only for the Goblin to kill her off, comic book style.

Although that, and the resulting revenge storyline/episode where Pete goes after the Goblin, may end up being a touch too adult, even for a cartoon that already has a relatively adult attitude.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I think Weisman has said in the past that he'd like to finish out five seasons of high school stories, then do DTVs that would allow for more mature stuff like that.

 

[Thrall]

I love this show. The action is great, and it feels like a real update of the old Lee/Kirby era. None of that Ultimate crap. This is what a Marvel product should look like. Not Quesadaish, deconstructive crap like Wolverine and The X-Men. The redesigns are good and work well. They aren't ridiculous like The Batman's were. Making Harry The Green Goblin first was different but it worked. And it's made by Stan Lee, which why it's more to the spirit of traditional Marvel then most of their products are.

 

[Christopher]

Making Harry The Green Goblin first was different but it worked.

I'm still not convinced it was Harry -- it might've been Norman making it look like it was Harry to throw off suspicion. Don't tell me if the second season proves me wrong, though.

And it's made by Stan Lee, which why it's more to the spirit of traditional Marvel then most of their products are.

Uhh, Stan Lee has been an executive producer on all the Marvel animated series for decades now. I don't think he's any more directly involved in this one than he's been in any of the others. The reason it's the way it is is because Greg Weisman and the rest of the writing staff are big fans of the Lee-Ditko era and are trying to capture its spirit.

 

[CaptainCanada]

And it's made by Stan Lee, which why it's more to the spirit of traditional Marvel then most of their products are.

Lee gets a courtesy credit by virtue of being Stan Lee; always has. He's no more involved in this one than he is in any of the others (including Wolverine and the X-Men, which he is also an executive producer of).

He has a fun cameo in the S2 premiere, though he's not been in Wolverine and the X-Men yet (he wasn't in either of the previous shows either, actually; fitting on one level, since, creator aside, he's not really a huge creative figure in the history of the X-Men).

The reason it's the way it is is because Greg Weisman and the rest of the writing staff are big fans of the Lee-Ditko era and are trying to capture its spirit.

Personally, the show has always seemed more Lee/Romita to me, tonally. Ditko was all "Peter loses even when he wins"-type stuff; Romita brought the lighter touch to personal relationships (particularly his romantic life; unsurprising, given Romita's background in romance comics) that this series usually has.

Though with Flash, for example, you see him progressing in-show from Ditko-Flash (unsympathetic jerk who torments the hero) to Romita-Flash (who was a lot more sympathetic).

 

[Christopher]

And it's made by Stan Lee, which why it's more to the spirit of traditional Marvel then most of their products are.

Lee gets a courtesy credit by virtue of being Stan Lee; always has. He's no more involved in this one than he is in any of the others (including Wolverine and the X-Men, which he is also an executive producer of).

I recall reading that on the '90s Spider-Man animated series, he had at least a consultant role in the writing process, offering comments and suggestions on the scripts. Which could explain why that show captured his style so well, the mix of rich characterization and believable emotion with corny dialogue and fanciful, melodramatic situations.

These days, though, I wouldn't be surprised if his involvement were much less. He's not a young man, and he has other business concerns occupying his attention.

He has a fun cameo in the S2 premiere, though he's not been in Wolverine and the X-Men yet (he wasn't in either of the previous shows either, actually; fitting on one level, since, creator aside, he's not really a huge creative figure in the history of the X-Men).

Not entirely correct, depending on whether a failed pilot counts as a "show." The 1989 "Pryde of the X-Men" pilot had introductory narration delivered by Lee and written in his trademark style.

Personally, the show has always seemed more Lee/Romita to me, tonally. Ditko was all "Peter loses even when he wins"-type stuff; Romita brought the lighter touch to personal relationships (particularly his romantic life; unsurprising, given Romita's background in romance comics) that this series usually has.

I dunno... at least in the first season, Peter's luck with romance is pretty sketchy. MJ's playing the field, Betty shoots him down entirely, and he doesn't notice Gwen's interest until the season finale. Maybe the first season was Ditko and the second's Romita? Again, I haven't seen the second season yet.

Though with Flash, for example, you see him progressing in-show from Ditko-Flash (unsympathetic jerk who torments the hero) to Romita-Flash (who was a lot more sympathetic).

That much I've seen, since it began late in season 1.

And of course Lee still deserves the bulk of the credit for the character directions. My understanding is that he wanted to make Peter more successful in his relationships, but Ditko resisted; when Romita took over, he was more willing to go along with Lee's preferences.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

The absolute highlight of this season for me, was 02-04 'Shear Strength'. No spoilers for those who can't get the episodes yet, but the climax was drawn directly from AMS #33. I started collecting Spiderman just 2 years after that, and was filling in my collection by trading with older kids in the neighbourhood, and with 'Marvel Tales' reprints.

The 'Marvel Tales' never had much resale value, so I've had them ever since in a moldering box in the basement. The artwork in the cartoon is direct lift from the cover and from some of the best Ditko art ever inside the book. Watching the show really sent chills down my spine.

A close second this season is 02-09, just for the scene where the villians are going down the elevator humming the show's theme song, our entire house was rolling on the floor laughing at that, not just a great idea but the delivery was perfect!

 

[Servo]

The absolute highlight of this season for me, was 02-04 'Shear Strength'. No spoilers for those who can't get the episodes yet, but the climax was drawn directly from AMS #33. I started collecting Spiderman just 2 years after that, and was filling in my collection by trading with older kids in the neighbourhood, and with 'Marvel Tales' reprints.

Spoiler: Shear Strength

That's the one where he's trapped under all the rubble with the water flooding in, right? You're right, that was a great homage to ASM, and brought a smile to my face as soon as I recognised what was happening. Took me right back to when I read that story as a kid.

 

[Servo]

Just finished watching the finale, 2x13 - Final Curtain.

Spoiler: 2x13

So Norman was the Green Goblin all along. Nice how it all came together, with Chameleon impersonating Norman to throw Spidey and Harry off the scent. Now everyone thinks Norman is dead, and Harry blames Spider-Man for it. I did think that the final minutes, after Spidey's battle with the Goblin, seemed a bit rushed, but it didn't really affect my enjoyment of the episode.
I knew Harry was going to end up using emotional blackmail to keep Gwen as soon as he overheard Pete and Gwen talking about their feelings for each other.
Nice nod to a future villain with Osborn/Chameleon talking to Mac Gargan (Scorpion).

Can't wait for S3, hope they announce the renewal soon. Apparently, Greg Weisman has said that Hobgoblin and Scorpion are pencilled in for S3.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Strong season finale.

Poor Pete, that whole dating thing sure blew up in your face.

For next season, personally, I hope for no

Spoiler: SSM

Norman; let him stay on the sidelines for a while.

 

[coolghoul]

I hope it's ok to resuscitate this old thread.

Disney xD did a marathon over the Memorial Day weekend of The Spectacular Spider-Man. I remembered it being discussed over here and thought I would check it out. I managed to catch 2 of the episodes ('Group Therapy' and 'Intervention') and then when I came back to it, they were repeating the same 2 episodes. So I watched it again.

First things first - the drawing style is reminiscent of Teen Titans rather than the more "traditional" 90s Spider-man (which they still occasionally show episodes from on the same channel). However, it doesn't have the funny-face looks that often appear in Teen Titan which are uniquely kids-anime and terribly annoying until you grow to like them (I incredibly have!). I prefer a slightly less angular look but there it is.

Peter Parker is young and his Spider-man seems shorter too than I'm used to. Which is correct in a matter of speaking. The 90s Spider-man, which in many ways is my yardstick for this show made Peter almost unrecognizable in making him big-shouldered and fairly hunky looking and not at all the nerd-geek we all love from the early comics. In this one, Peter has a freckle or two and still doesn't seem to wearing glasses. Also, and I don't know what kinda weird stereotype I am getting, his Peter Parker look is vaguely Hispanic/Latino. I can't quite figure out why I feel that way but that was my impression.

But coming to the stories themselves, they were both great. Peter already has the black costume (the 'ooze') and in Group Therapy, after getting beaten by the Sinister Six, the costume takes over a sleep-walking Peter and goes and fights the Sinister Six! It was a little unnerving to not see him quip and Doc Ock even remarks about it. But it's towards the end of the episode that we see that it's because the costume was controlling Peter. The second episode ('Intervention') had Peter realize the black costume is evil and take it off and Brock becoming Venom. It also features Ben Parker and a fairly complete retelling of the Spider-man origin story. They have stuck to the movie version of the origin with the genetically modified spiders (except that it's Gwen Stacy and not MJ on the field trip) and also in that Ben Parker is waiting for Pete at the library and that the mugger kills him for his car. I seem to vaguely remember in the comics that the mugger actually kills Uncle Ben at home when Uncle Ben ends up interrupting the burglary attempt in his home. It's been a while since I read the classic comics. The episode ends with Eddie Brock becoming Venom.

But both episodes were densely packed, I thought. I would have easily thought them to be more than 22 minutes standard with the amount of stuff that was covered in them.

In short, I liked it!

Coming back to a few of the points from some of the last posts - the 90s Spider-man included a story at the end of Secret Wars where Spider-man meets Stan Lee.

I don't know whether I saw season 1 or season 2 eps of The Spectacular Spider-Man but I hope I get to see more...

Also, if they are all in school, then I find it a bit odd that they did the Venom story-line. I think Venom should happen a little later in Spidey's life.

Also, I personally don't hate the Ultimate universe and the Spider-man stories set there. There's a certain magic that I see in the stories. But seeing a teenage MJ who goes to high school with Peter and who is incredibly gawky is weird. MJ should always be the knockout that Peter meets to realize that he's hit the jackpot! Oh well...

 

[exodus]

No its just true. As businessmen they've been trained to think they must now make all product a reflection of society. The Hispanic and at times Black coalitions would stage boycotts and protest because of a perceived injustice. I'm open minded enough to say they likely had a point at some time. The PC police(various coalitions and watchdog groups) now insist/highly encourage these type of cast moves.

I will never accept that there's somehow something bad about including nonwhite characters in a show. When you say that, what you're effectively saying is that only white characters should be allowed, and that's a hideous thing to even imply.

And it is so tiresome to hear people spouting that "PC" catchphrase. It's lost all meaning. Given the current political climate, all the backlash against inclusion, all the political pundits and shock jocks screaming about how wrong it is to acknowledge the very existence of anyone who isn't white and straight, it's meaningless and hypocritical to claim that supporting inclusion is the "politically correct" position.

When they are building a show from scratch with no established backstory I could care less. Its when they take something as established as Spiderman and his universe(granted Liz Allen is hardly known) and make the type change they did with Liz.

That's a ridiculous double standard. If they can rewrite Spider-Man's continuity by making Gwen and Harry his friends in high school rather than in college, or change Electro's origin and appearance so drastically, then why do you find a change in ethnicity so unacceptable? Come on, that's trivial in comparison to some of the changes that have been made. If out of all the changes that have been made, the change in ethnicities is the one thing you find intolerable, then... well, I won't say what that implies.

So you have no issues with the changing of the ethinic origin of these characters but you raised a stink to high heaven about the Asian characters in Avatar: The Last Airbender being cast as White for the film.

Dude, make up your mind.

 

[Christopher]

First things first - the drawing style is reminiscent of Teen Titans rather than the more "traditional" 90s Spider-man (which they still occasionally show episodes from on the same channel). However, it doesn't have the funny-face looks that often appear in Teen Titan which are uniquely kids-anime and terribly annoying until you grow to like them (I incredibly have!). I prefer a slightly less angular look but there it is.

The only similarity is that both shows use stylized, cartoony character design styles. The actual styles themselves are highly distinct. Teen Titans is an anime-influenced Glen Murakami design style; SSM's character designer, Sean "Cheeks" Galloway, doesn't employ any particular anime design attributes here, and his style is extremely unlike Murakami's, less slick and more angular. The use of color is extremely different too.

I seem to vaguely remember in the comics that the mugger actually kills Uncle Ben at home when Uncle Ben ends up interrupting the burglary attempt in his home. It's been a while since I read the classic comics.

That's right. The car version is from the movie. (In the film, it's Sam Raimi's own car, which he manages to work into just about every movie he's ever made.)

I don't know whether I saw season 1 or season 2 eps of The Spectacular Spider-Man but I hope I get to see more...

Those are season 1. Disney XD doesn't premiere S2 until the fall.

Also, if they are all in school, then I find it a bit odd that they did the Venom story-line. I think Venom should happen a little later in Spidey's life.

As with previous adaptations, it's incorporating elements from every era of the comics, though it's relying more on the Lee-Ditko and Lee-Romita eras than past shows have done. Do you just mean that the Venom story should happen later because it did in the comics, or is there a reason independent of comics history why you think it works better as part of Peter's adult life than his high-school life?

 

[Anwar]

Frankly, the only story I haven't liked that was the Symbiote story in Season 1. I thought that they didn't develop Brock enough to justify him going all nuts and wanting to kill Gwen to get to Peter, and that Peter didn't have enough justification to get rid of the symbiote suit.

Someone on another forum suggested that they made Brock into a running subplot and him gaining the symbiote in S1 but not openly menacing Peter as Venom until S2. I liked that.

 

[coolghoul]

The only similarity is that both shows use stylized, cartoony character design styles. The actual styles themselves are highly distinct. Teen Titans is an anime-influenced Glen Murakami design style; SSM's character designer, Sean "Cheeks" Galloway, doesn't employ any particular anime design attributes here, and his style is extremely unlike Murakami's, less slick and more angular. The use of color is extremely different too.

Thanks Christopher for the clarifications on the drawing style, the season information and also the comics origins. I also noticed that the colors are more muted in SSM instead of the normal bright colors that I see in other cartoon shows. In that sense, to me, it is similar to the MTV cartoon show (I only watched an episode or two) from a few years back. Less bright colors. Intervention had a significant part of the episode in gray (the part that depicts the mental battle between Peter Parker and the alien symbiote).

As with previous adaptations, it's incorporating elements from every era of the comics, though it's relying more on the Lee-Ditko and Lee-Romita eras than past shows have done. Do you just mean that the Venom story should happen later because it did in the comics, or is there a reason independent of comics history why you think it works better as part of Peter's adult life than his high-school life?

Both, I think. Venom is a comparatively recent addition to the Spidey history. Also, from a story-sense, he's an evil counterpart to Spider-man. (Mirror universe!! ). Quite a few of the stories related to Venom deal with him making use of his knowledge of Spidey as being Peter Parker. Venom is a psychopathic killer - in a way, the more recent Marvel-universe counterpart to an evil Joker. It's hard to do that in the limitations of a Y7 cartoon. Also it works better in a Peter-in-college background. Presumably he's living alone but visiting Aunt May so he doesn't come back bruised and battered by Venom to Aunt May's home but to a dorm room or an apartment shared with Harry O. Or Venom when taking the fight home, doesn't end up terrorising Aunt May. Or school-kids like MJ, or Gwen.

Hmm - I guess I am saying it's ok to terrorize kids in college!!