Tarsus IV

[Messianni]

That's actually a shame. It would have been an interesting plot point to have Pine being chased through the galaxy by Karidian's Lunatic Daughter played by a "Dumb As A Box Of Rocks" Jessica Simpson.

I also suspect that it won't be shown in this movie. However, just as an exercise, using dates taken from Memory Alpha:

James Kirk Born: March 22nd, 2233
Famine occurs on Tarsus IV: 2246 (making Kirk 12 or 13 at the time)
Age of Young Kirk actor Jimmy Bennett at time of filming: 12 or just turned 13
​

Which means that the Corvette-into-the-quarry escapade could conceivably take place just prior to Kirk's leaving for Tarsus VI or just after his return to Earth from there. I'm not saying that's what the filmmakers will present (or whether they'll mention it at all) but an allusion in passing would qualify as one of those winks to longtime Trek fans which have been said by them to be scattered throughout the movie.

Not going to be a big deal for me, one way or the other, but it's a fun thought.

Edit:

Jessica Simpson... *snerf* If I thought she had anything near the acting chops to play as crazy as Barbara Anderson did back when, I wouldn't mind seeing that.

Dude, look at it this way. You're Uncle Wino. You've always resented the fact that you didn't measure up to your brother George, who was a Starship Captain.

But the one thing you had that that sumbitch George didn't have before that fool got his ship shot out from under him was a genuine, 250 year old Corvette!!!!

You loved that car. You loved that car more than your three ex-wives and you didn't care about your three ex-wives since the United States Government, by treaty with the United Earth Government and the Federation, outlawed alimony and child support as sexist. Good! More Saurian Brandy and Bootleg Romulan Ale for you!

So what happens? Because life sucks and you can't quite beat that erectile dysfunction of yours, you come home one day and find one of them robot cops with George's little urchin, James T..

He's driven your precious, 250 year old Vette into the Xindi Trench.

What do you do? Do you beat him? Do you hit him over the head with the bottle of Black Jack like you did when he left the hot dogs out in the rain last month? Nope!!!!

You swear that you'll make a man out of the little no-good runt, who doesn't appreciate all that his uncle has done for him.

You'll send him to that fine Military School on Tarsus IV, that's what you'll do!

That will straighten out the little brat! Maybe he'll grow up and meet a nice, cute blonde or something!

I like this explanation.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Shatner's novel "Collision Course" is recommended reading. What effect the time on Tarsus IV had on young Jim Kirk is a key plot point.

 

[Trevacious]

I'm thinking it'd be easy to presume Jim Kirk never visited Tarsus IV, because his father was killed by time-travelling Romulans on the day he was born.

That would've put an end to George dragging the family around to other planets. Presuming Wynona wasn't also Starfleet, she could've just gone back home with the baby and lived a new life altogether with her soon-to-be troubled teen. On Earth. No summer vacations to troubled places like Tarsus IV.

So, that's it - two facts. Kirk's age at the time of the events isn't established (there are contradictory indications about Kirk's exact age during TOS;

There are? I remember him saying he's 34 years old, in The Deadly Years. What are the contradictions?

 

[pookha]

there is a way he could have still been out on tarsus .
maybe the uncle was so unfit he was in the custody of someone else for awhile.
another starfleet officer perhaps.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I like the Uncle suggestion...lol.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

So my friend and I have been wondering something and forgive me if this has already been brought up in the forum already, but does Tarsus IV happen in Star Trek 09? I'm curious...the trailers show Kirk at various points during his early life, the kid who steals the car, then the teenager who stares up at the Enterprise being built and then the Academy cadet who seemingly takes command of the Enterprise. I would assume that if included in this movie that his time on Tarsus (which in my opinion had a profound impact on our Kirk and shaped his later life) would happen after the incident with the car and just before the bar fight scenes. What does everyone else think?

Tarsus IV certainly happens... young teenager Jim Kirk wasn't instrumental in CAUSING what happened there. So his absence certainly wouldn't result in the events (the agricultural plague, the famine, Kodos taking over, etc) from occurring. Some minor events would be different, of course, but Kirk's influence would have been a minor element in that particular set of events.

The only way it wouldn't have happened would be if Nero's first appearance were sufficient to disrupt EVERYTHING... meaning "no famine" or "no Kodos on the planet."

But... Jim Kirk wasn't on Tarsus IV in this timeline. He was hanging out with Uncle Fred on the farm, stealing corvettes and getting busted by futuristic motorcycle cops.

One has to wonder... how formative was Tarsus IV in Kirk's personality? Could it have been this event that turned him into the "walking stack of books with legs," so grim, who we've been told about? I've always believed that Kirks' father died when Kirk was young (about 12-ish)... meaning Jimmy knew his dad in the "real" timeline. And that Jimmy's mom was killed on Tarsus several years later (when he was about 15 or 16?), leaving only Jim and Sam left.

Instead of a young rebel, he was a grim, humorless kid. But, of course, at his core he was the same person in both realities. And the same traits eventually come out in both versions.

 

[AlanC9]

2) Kirk is one of nine survivors of the massacre who could identify Kodos. Again, the library computer mentions this, and it's reiterated later in the show: "There were nine eye witnesses who survived the massacre who'd actually seen Kodos with their own eyes. Jim Kirk was one of them."

Anyone else ever find this hard to swallow? How exactly does someone get to be Governor and leave almost no witnesses?

 

[aelius]

Yeah, I asked that in another thread. Seems odd...

 

[Praetor]

Maybe he wore a mask?

 

[Peter the Younger]

Yeah, I asked that in another thread. Seems odd...

Well, how would anyone know? Unless there were some sort of widespread motion picture devises that could record his image... uh...

This is a prime example of why we shouldn't take TOS canon so seriously.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

2) Kirk is one of nine survivors of the massacre who could identify Kodos. Again, the library computer mentions this, and it's reiterated later in the show: "There were nine eye witnesses who survived the massacre who'd actually seen Kodos with their own eyes. Jim Kirk was one of them."

Anyone else ever find this hard to swallow? How exactly does someone get to be Governor and leave almost no witnesses?

SHatner addresses that in his book ("Collision course") and I like his solution...

Kodos took over the colony and declared himself governor... AFTER the crop-destroying plague. Nobody knew who he was, because he was a "masked terrorist" type who seized control by force.

 

[NiteTrek]

Instead of a young rebel, he was a grim, humorless kid. But, of course, at his core he was the same person in both realities. And the same traits eventually come out in both versions.

I have to wonder about that. Childhood/teenage experiences are what mold a person into the type of adult they become.

It would seem to me that a "young rebel" would be closer to the type of kid that would later become the commanding Kirk of TOS. I don't see a "grim, humorless kid" growing up to be the Kirk that we all know and love.

Just like the TNG episode where Picard goes back to his youth (with the help of Q) and eliminates his rebellious streak and then finds out that the Picard of that altered future possesses no command abilities whatsoever. He realizes that his rebellious youth was instrumental in shaping his future command abilities.

 

[Kelso]

SHatner addresses that in his book ("Collision course") and I like his solution...

Kodos took over the colony and declared himself governor... AFTER the crop-destroying plague. Nobody knew who he was, because he was a "masked terrorist" type who seized control by force.

Then it seems strange to refer to him as Governor Kodos 20 years later.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I have to wonder about that. Childhood/teenage experiences are what mold a person into the type of adult they become.

I've met a lot of kids who were what they were from day one. Tabula rasa my ass.

SHatner addresses that in his book ("Collision course") and I like his solution...

Kodos took over the colony and declared himself governor... AFTER the crop-destroying plague. Nobody knew who he was, because he was a "masked terrorist" type who seized control by force.

Then it seems strange to refer to him as Governor Kodos 20 years later.

Yeah, what a load of crap.

 

[aelius]

Yeah. You would think the computer would have referred to him as the rebel leader then instead of the governor.
Somehow I doubt the Federation ratified his "election".

 

[Praetor]

I think another important thing to consider is the concept of Kirk as originally created versus what Shatner shaped it into. The two are not really the same. The former, as seen in the first half of the first season, was much less easy going IMHO and could have been the kid shaped by Tarsus IV more easily. The latter version was more Shatner and more easy going/over the top.

(Then of course there's also movie Kirk who seems like a different animal anyway, closer to the early 'grim' Kirk from the beginning of TOS in some ways - perhaps because of his midlife crisis and ensuing problems.)

 

[Phily B]

No need for it, it was a minor mention in one episode of TOS. They can re-write it and 99 percent of Trek fans won't give a fuck.

 

[Messianni]

No need for it, it was a minor mention in one episode of TOS. They can re-write it and 99 percent of Trek fans won't give a fuck.

Yes. But those 1%, better watch out... they'll be so angry! I can hear their furious typing now...

 

[Trevacious]

Tarsus IV certainly happens... young teenager Jim Kirk wasn't instrumental in CAUSING what happened there. So his absence certainly wouldn't result in the events (the agricultural plague, the famine, Kodos taking over, etc) from occurring. Some minor events would be different, of course, but Kirk's influence would have been a minor element in that particular set of events.

Kevin Riley may be dead.

(By which Nero indirectly spares the crew of the Enterprise from hearing Riley's rendition of, "I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen.")

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Instead of a young rebel, he was a grim, humorless kid. But, of course, at his core he was the same person in both realities. And the same traits eventually come out in both versions.

I have to wonder about that. Childhood/teenage experiences are what mold a person into the type of adult they become.

It would seem to me that a "young rebel" would be closer to the type of kid that would later become the commanding Kirk of TOS. I don't see a "grim, humorless kid" growing up to be the Kirk that we all know and love.

Just like the TNG episode where Picard goes back to his youth (with the help of Q) and eliminates his rebellious streak and then finds out that the Picard of that altered future possesses no command abilities whatsoever. He realizes that his rebellious youth was instrumental in shaping his future command abilities.

Well, there are basic personality traits, and then there are "overcompensations" which we all do at some point in our lives.

Kirk was probably a precocious kid with a lot of attitude all his life, but losing his dad (not at birth but more than a decade later... ie, having KNOWN his father... and thus having sense of loss when he died) and then going through everything at Tarsus would have caused a personality shift. But it wouldn't have been a permanent shift (nor, honestly, would it have been a particularly HEALTHY shift... overcompensation never is!).

This is why Gary Mitchell and Finnegan and so forth really belong in any "real TOS origin" for Kirk.

Mitchell... because he was Kirk's FRIEND who was always trying to get him to let down his guard and lighten up...

And Finnegan, because he was doing the same thing, in a much more... ahem... AGGRESSIVE fashion.

Ultimately, both were telling Kirk to lighten up, else he'd end up permanently damaged goods.