No, Kang was a lot worse.
Wow that's actually the first time I noticed where they got the names from
Wow that's actually the first time I noticed where they got the names from
Was Kodos REALLY as evil as they made out??
- Thread starter johcomp
- Start date
I got the following impressions over the years from the episode.
1) Kodos remains were referred to as "burned beyond recognition".
I figured this meant that those remains had apparently been phasered (or another similiar high energy weapon) that ruined them for any DNA analysis.
That assumes that Kodos DNA was on file anywhere or that he had any known relatives.
2) The "only 12 people had seen Kodos" to me implies that he was Gov. of the Tarsus 4 colony only briefly. That likely the original governor had died or been killed and that Kodos had taken power to "save the colony".
3) I always figured that Leightons disfigurement was at the hands of Kodos's people. Perhaps as a young man he tried to save people being executed.
4) Kodos was clearly racked by extreme guilt at the end
"You've left me with NOTHING! All my life, you were the one thing untouched by what I had done!"
5) I think Kodos was rightly condemned for apparently resorting to mass murder not as a last option, but as an early option. Plus, he apparently arbitrarily decided who lived and who died based on his own personal theories and biases.
6) If you notice who was killed (Riley's parents for example) and who was spared ( apparently teenagers Kirk and Leighton, a very young child Riley)
then I get the idea that Kodos wanted to eliminated the older colonists in order to stop any opposition to his rule in the future while leaving easier to mold and control youngsters.
If that is the case, it does indeed make Kodos's crime horrific. He was using the excuse of the famine to slaughter opposition and solidify his rule.
1) Kodos remains were referred to as "burned beyond recognition".
I figured this meant that those remains had apparently been phasered (or another similiar high energy weapon) that ruined them for any DNA analysis.
That assumes that Kodos DNA was on file anywhere or that he had any known relatives.
2) The "only 12 people had seen Kodos" to me implies that he was Gov. of the Tarsus 4 colony only briefly. That likely the original governor had died or been killed and that Kodos had taken power to "save the colony".
3) I always figured that Leightons disfigurement was at the hands of Kodos's people. Perhaps as a young man he tried to save people being executed.
4) Kodos was clearly racked by extreme guilt at the end
"You've left me with NOTHING! All my life, you were the one thing untouched by what I had done!"
5) I think Kodos was rightly condemned for apparently resorting to mass murder not as a last option, but as an early option. Plus, he apparently arbitrarily decided who lived and who died based on his own personal theories and biases.
6) If you notice who was killed (Riley's parents for example) and who was spared ( apparently teenagers Kirk and Leighton, a very young child Riley)
then I get the idea that Kodos wanted to eliminated the older colonists in order to stop any opposition to his rule in the future while leaving easier to mold and control youngsters.
If that is the case, it does indeed make Kodos's crime horrific. He was using the excuse of the famine to slaughter opposition and solidify his rule.
Hey anyone who likes typing long answers more than I:
Compare Kodos (by the way, there's ANOTHER Trek name with hard k sound in it) to DuKat.
(I've actually come to the conclusion that Dukat MIGHT have spared some lives on Bajor or softened conditions for some. We can't know just how much he lies to himself, but I like to think he did ameliorate the conditions for some. Thus Kira is a more complex character blindered by her own perspective -- all Cardies are bad.)
Compare Kodos (by the way, there's ANOTHER Trek name with hard k sound in it) to DuKat.
(I've actually come to the conclusion that Dukat MIGHT have spared some lives on Bajor or softened conditions for some. We can't know just how much he lies to himself, but I like to think he did ameliorate the conditions for some. Thus Kira is a more complex character blindered by her own perspective -- all Cardies are bad.)
I had the impression that Dukat was more a "bungler" than a "butcher".
He was the final Cardassian overlord put in place when everyone knew that the Bajoran occupation was coming to an end. It was the Cardassian occupation leaders from decades past that had committed the most atrocities and put in place the instruments of oppression.
At any rate, Cardassian occupation was historically speaking pretty mild. In the episode featuring the Cardassian child raised by Bajoran parents, it is stated that the Cardassian killed "ten million Bajorans"
Only ten million? Over 40 years time? On a planet that we have indications is even more heavily populated than Earth (6 billion to date).
Statistically that isn't that great a number by any measure.
But Kira certainly loathed Dukat because he was the Cardassian in charge during most of her life. Thus Dukat symbolized all the evil done by the Cardassians.
"The Conscience of the King" aired in December of 1966. The episode was directed by Gerd Oswald. The character Dr. Thomas Leighton (William Sargent), had been disfigured in some unexplained manner. Here he is, sitting in front of a window, wearing a dark collarless suit with a black bandage-thing covering the left side of his face including his left eye.
Well, it's interesting to see that two years earlier, in December of 1964, the Outer Limits episode "The Duplicate Man" aired. Folks may remember that one one of the characters in that episode, Captain Carl Emmet (Sean McClory), had been disfigured in some unexplained manner. Here he is, sitting in front of a window, wearing a dark collarless suit with a black bandage-thing covering the left side of his face including his left eye.
It is, of course, no coincidence that this Outer Limits episode was also directed by Gerd Oswald.
No commentary here. Just an interesting production detail.
Oh, Dayton, please tell me that that "only 10 million" is a bit of sarcasm that I just don't get. Come on. Ten million is a number so vast that neither you nor I can really comprehend it.
Dukat was...a monster. Yes, Dukat was following orders, but how many bullies and brutes and monsters over the centuries have explained their behavior by saying they were only following orders? How many concentration camp commandants, how many torchers of villages, how many? That he did a tiny bit of good here or there and had some good qualities (I found him a fascinating and compelling character) doesn't change that.
Kira might have made Dukat the symbol of Cardassian evil, but that's because she had every reason to. He did evil in the name of Cardassia. He was the one in charge. Why shouldn't she consider him evil? Of course she loathed him. The only way she wouldn't is if she bought in to his delusion that he was only trying to do his best.
As for who was worse, well, probably Kodos. But "worse" is kind of a meaningless comparision, isn't it?
Well said.
Regarding Dukat vs. Kodos, I think it's worth consideration that Dukat was probably primarily in charge of maintaining the Bajorans as a slave race, not eradicating them. What's more, he clearly got off on being in charge and abusing his power. Kodos was ostensibly trying to save his colony.
Kodos may have committed the worse crimes, but Dukat did so for worse reasons, IMHO.
Dayton3 said:
So...there are degrees of monsterhood? Nah. Can't buy it. Who's worse - the Hutus or Hitler? Stalin or Ceausescu? Is it worse to slaughter millions, like Hitler, or to torture and kill hundreds of girls, as the Countess Elizabeth Bathory of Hungary is reported to have done, just because she got a kick out of it?
It isn't a question of math.
I honestly and sincerely cannot imagine that you think it is, either, so I must be misunderstanding you.
Well, literally speaking, you could survive a famine by killing everybody else. There's bound to be something edible left on the planet, and while 8,000 people might have a hard time surviving on it, a single mass murderer should have easier going... Sustaining himself with the corpses should be a valid option, if everything else fails. 
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
True - and very good point about "maintaining a slave race." Why damage or diminish your workforce unnecessarily? But an interesting thing about both Dukat and Kodos is that both claimed that their various horrors were done for the right reasons. Neither was (apparently - that's a guess, of course, particularly in the case of Kodos) the sort of man who could do evil and then sit back and enjoy the show. Kodos murdered to save others, or so he claimed; Dukat oversaw a slave state in order to benefit his people, or so he claimed (he seemed to enjoy some of it, though, if you ask me), and his people were definitely Cardassians, not Bajorans.
And thus it has been with tyrants throughout the ages. An awful lot of them have claimed the common good as their justifiction, which is a good lesson for the rest of us.
(Nice use of an alternative smiley, Timo.)
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trevanian
Rear Admiral
History is told by survivors according to cliche, so since we don't have all the facts, it is all blue-sky. But to again invoke new BSG: if the ship hadn't left the little kid and all those others behind in the pilot, there'd be no show and no struggle to survive.
If you want to go high and mighty about dying with class instead of living with guilt, then okay, I'll buy that in another thread, because there have been times when Kirk & co offered their lives to head off sadism, but I've never seen Kodos in that light (I do think the eps execution is pretty poor though; except for the phaser on overload and some spock/mccoy, I don't think I like anything in it.
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