What should be done in Africa

[All Seeing Eye]

What if there is not enough good land in the country concerned? Where are you going to find any spare good land in a place like Rwanda were the population density is over 700 people per square mile.

Looks good enough to me.

When a rich country such as Australia is unable to improve its land (an impossible thing to do given Australia's topography) , how can it be achievable in so many poor countries in Africa?

Australia is suffering from droughts, droughts that could be sorted out in no time at all if the Australian government could be bothered to spend the money and do something about it. The reason Australia continues to suffer isn't because it can't be done but because of stupidity on the part of the Australian government. Take it up with them.

By the way, I came across this little gem. They're building a new international airport and upgrading the city. I'm sure there'd be a lot of happy people if there was word of new towns being built.

I know, let's build these guys a town shall we? right smack bang where they are now.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Australia is suffering from droughts, droughts that could be sorted out in no time at all if the Australian government could be bothered to spend the money and do something about it. The reason Australia continues to suffer isn't because it can't be done but because of stupidity on the part of the Australian government. Take it up with them.

What should the AUstralian government be doing? Most of the land in Australia is unfarmable and could never be made farmable. The government cannot change that.

I just want to know what you would do with those areas in Africa with land that cannot be improved?

Australians copes reasonably well with drought, no-one dies or thirst of hunger. Even with drought we have a high standard of living.

Nice pictures of land in Rwanda. Most of it looks like it is already under cultivation. I asked you were you would find new land for towns in Rwanda?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I just want to know what you would do with those areas in Africa with land that cannot be improved?

The areas where people are living the land IS fertile enough to grow crops, it doesn't have to be grade A fit for the queen soil to grow food. If people have the will, determination, seeds and water to begin planting the crops will grow, bung a few shovel loads of compost in for good measure and bobs your uncle.

Nice pictures of land in Rwanda. Most of it looks like it is already under cultivation. I asked you were you would find new land for towns in Rwanda?

Dear lord! only in about 2 pics it shows cultivated land and beyond that bit of cultivated land is miles upon miles of un cultivated none lived on green fertile land. Your ignorance of Rwanda is made clear. Go do your own search for views of Rwanda and you'll see for yourself it's not the unfertile desert land you think it is. Infact do some research on Africa whilst you're at it, you're under the mistaken impression Africa is all desert and similar to the Austrlian outback when it isn't. Go look on google Earth if you have to, i'm sure that can open your eyes to how Africa really is.
Most desert and/or unfertile land is in northern Africa but people don't even live in those areas.
You've seen pictures of starving people on sandy looking areas and assume it can't grow food, it CAN grow food because it's already been done by charitys by giving them the tools and seeds and plants they need to get it all started.

Just look at this here. Zoom in on the map at the side too. plants and Crops will grow just about anywhere and that's in Tunisia!!!!! where it's heavily desert, not like the rest of Africa that's green and fertile.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Where have I said that Rwanda has any deserts. I know very well it is a mountainest green land at least in the west of the country, poorer land in the east. However I also know that nearly all of its arable land is under cultivation. It is the second smallest country in Africa abnd is the most densely populated. As it is its land has been nearly completely cleared and terraced for agriculture.

I want to know how you would go about obtaining land to build on.

Nowhere did I say all land in Africa was like Australia. I just asked you what you would do in those countries which had a lack of arable land like Australia does. And I specifically mean land that cannot be made arable (like land in Australia cannot be).

 

[All Seeing Eye]

arable land 45.56%
permanent crops 10.25%
other 44.19%

Link

 

[Miss Chicken]

That shows that 55% of land in Rwanda is being farmed. Most of the other 44% would be unstuitable for farming.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

That shows that 55% of land in Rwanda is being farmed. Most of the other 44% would be unstuitable for farming.

No, it shows Rwanda is growing more than enough food already and there's 44.19% of the country suitable for building towns.
These towns aren't just for Rwanda, they're for the whole of Africa, you can't use Rwanda as an example of how the plan would fail. In Rwanda's case the crops and fields are already there and they could do with just having towns built so they can try and pick themselves up and start developing other areas of industry. They can't just live their lives tending to crops, they need to have some kind of economy and these towns are the first step toward that so they can make money and import food that they can't already grow themselves.
Other countries aren't in the same boat as Rwanda, there are many countries throughout Africa where they don't have such a high percentage of the land already being cultivated, it is those countries that need to have crops planted on the outskirts of these new towns and wells dug, not all the other countries get the same kind of rainfall that Rwanda gets.
You've tried and failed to focus the whole issue on Rwanda when that's just a stupid thing to do. Each country obviously has different issues but ALL the countries would benefit from these towns being built. Just because Rwanda has more than enough arable land being used doesn't mean they can't have a solar powered town with schools and hospitals built.

I honestly cannot fathom why you're so desperate to try and twist and turn the subject to try and win the arguement. This whole thing isn't about only Rwanda. Trying to focus on Rwanda is nothing more than you ignoring the bigger picture, you can't just focus all this on one country.
What do construction workers do in western cities when they wanna build something? they demolition something old and build something new. If there was a problem finding land to build a town you ask the people who want this town building if you can build it bit by bit on top of the old one.

 

[Miss Chicken]

No, it shows Rwanda is growing more than enough food already and there's 44.19% of the country suitable for building towns.

No it doesn't. For a start 13% of the 44.19% is national park where towns cannot be built. Other portions of that 44.19% already have towns/cities built on it. Other land is at a far too high altitude.


The problems I mentioned that a facing Rwanda arre also facing some other coutnries such as Burundi and the Gambia.

Other countries, such as Namibia, also lack enough arable land but for different reaons that Rwanda does.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

No it doesn't. For a start 13% of the $$.19% is national park where towns cannot be built. Other portions of that $$.19% are already have towns/cities built on it. Other land is at a far too high altitude.


The problems I mentioned that a facing Rwanda arre also facing some other coutnries such as Burundi and the Gambia.

Other countries, such as Namibia, also lack enough arable land but for different reaons that Rwanda does.

From my last post.

What do construction workers do in western cities when they wanna build something? they demolition something old and build something new. If there was a problem finding land to build a town you ask the people who want this town building if you can build it bit by bit on top of the old one.

It gets built bit by bit so people aren't displaced. Thought i'd say that bit before you use it to nitpick again. It's no wonder nothing gets done when people take the same stance and attitude that you do.

 

[TedShatner10]

Australia and parts of Africa are just not very conductive to growing a pre-industrial civilization let alone a post-industrial civilization, hence why most peoples living there for millennia on end have never left the Stone Age.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

 

[Miss Chicken]

If the town is going to stay in the same place than it is nothing like your scenario in the OP which was to build large towns from scratch. I have nothing against building people new houses, or improving amenities in already established villages (such as digging wells or building schools). What I said is your idea of creating brand new towns is unrealistic and undoable.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

If the town is going to stay in the same place than it is nothing like your scenario which was to build new towns from scratch. I have nothing against building people new houses, or improving amenities in already established villages (such as digging wells or building schools). What I said is your idea of creating brand new towns is unrealistic and undoable.

No no no no no. Dear lord!!!!!!!!

It will be a new town from scratch, either built on new land or built over an existing settlement if there is need to do so and the people of the settlement want that to happen. The old settlements will be completely wiped out and replaced by these new pre-designed towns powered by a centralised solar power plant. The whole town will be designed and built with efficiency in mind.

If there is room nearby to build a new town then it's built nearby, once people have moved in the old village is wiped clear for either another new town or for crop planting. If there's no land nearby then it will be built bit by bit on the existing village which will take longer but the result will be the same.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I see. I still think that there are far better ways to spend money in Africa than building new towns and solar power plants.

Even in the west our ancestors were able to live reasonably comfortable lives for centuries without electricity. I don't see every African having electricity as anywhere near a neccessity.

The money would be better spent on combating AIDS and other areas of health, and on education.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I see. I still think that there are far better ways to spend money in Africa than building new towns and solar power plants.

Even in the west our ancestors were able to live reasonably comfortable lives for centuries without electricity. I don't see every African having electricity as anywhere near a neccessity.

The money would be better spent on combating AIDS and other areas of health, and on education.

These towns will have schools and hospitals. Electricity can be used for educational tools such as those $100 laptops, other computers and for lighting and the hospitals would need electricity to power their equipment and diagnosis tools and to help therefore to treat people with AIDS and help combat it. Electricity would be needed to power radios in order to contact other people and other towns incase there's an emergency or if supplies are desperately needed. It will all be powered by renewable energy don't forget.

Electricity has a lot more benefits than just switching on a lightbulb. Try to think outside the box please.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Those $100 laptops can be used without electricity

The XO laptop has been developed to be used by children and is as low cost, durable and simple to use as possible. It packs several innovations including a sunlight readable display so that it can be used outside. It has no moving parts, can be powered by solar, foot-pump or pull-string powered chargers and is housed in a waterproof case.

and there are also hand-cranked radios.

Hospitals, even in third-world countries, usually already have a power source.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Those $100 laptops can be used without electricity

The XO laptop has been developed to be used by children and is as low cost, durable and simple to use as possible. It packs several innovations including a sunlight readable display so that it can be used outside. It has no moving parts, can be powered by solar, foot-pump or pull-string powered chargers and is housed in a waterproof case.

and there are also hand-cranked radios.

Hospitals ieven in third-world countries usually already have a power source.

That's right, focus on the $100 laptop and mention hand crank radios.
I can't believe what i'm reading here.

What you're pretty much saying is we shouldn't give them the luxury of electricity and they should instead put up with no lighting, no hot water, shitty hand cranked radios and the hospitals should put up with mediocre power?

Please, give me a break. The benefits of having a large renewable centralised power supply for the entire town has great benefits, benefits beyond hand cranked radios that's for sure.

Do me a favour, tell the energy company to turn off your gas and electricity supply, replace your computer with a $100 laptop and unplug your phone and replace it with a hand cranked radio instead and enjoy the high life and your cold baths.

Infact are there really hand cranked radios that can send signals out for great distances to send a message? that must need some serious cranking.

 

[Miss Chicken]

There is things they need far more than electricity. It is easy to live without electricity. Why spend money on something that they don't really need, that is a luxury? And electricity is a luxury that we have come to see as a neccessity in the west even though there are countless ways tyo deal with having no electricty.

My best friend, who is only 47, lived in many houses without electricity when she was young and she didn't miss it. Nor did her family really need it. They even managed to have hot baths by boiling water on the wood stove.

My own mother washed our clothes in a copper when I was very young. I don't think she got her first electrical washing machine until I was about 8 years old.

I also lived many nearly 10 years without a phone when my children were young. If I didn't have electricity I would get out the BBQ or else cook things on an open fire.

Infact are there really hand cranked radios that can send signals out for great distances to send a message? that must need some serious cranking.

Of course there is. In Australia pedal powered radios used to used to summons the Flying Doctor.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

There is things they need far more than electricity. It is easy to live without electricity. Why spend money on something that they don't really need, that is a luxury? And electricity is a luxury that we have come to see as a neccessity in the west even though there are countless ways tyo deal with having no electricty.

My best friend, who is only 47, lived in many houses without electricity when she was young and she didn't miss it. Nor did her family really need it. They even managed to have hot baths by boiling water on the wood stove.

My own mother washed our clothes in a copper when I was very young. I don't think she got her first electrical washing machine until I was about 8 years old.

Why should they live without it? so what, your friend and mother lived without it, Everybody above a certain age can remember when there was no central heating and you had to wash clothes in a tub and share a bath. Does that mean we shouldn't build a solar power plant capable of meeting the needs of an African town?
That's a pathetic way of thinking, "oh my mother lived without it and so should they". How hard would it be to build a solar power plant? one capable of supplying electricity for some hot water, a bit of light and the schools and hospitals? once it's built it's there, working, it's renewable and can last for many many years.

You want Africa to stay in a perpetual dark age. Give them electricity, give them power and watch them have their own industrial revolution.

It's all very well saying you went without a phone for 10 years but that's just you. What do you think would happen if the whole of Australia gave up electricity? gave up their phones? your country would collapse and turn into a 3rd world nation and it would be Australia begging for charity aswell as Africa. It would be the dark ages all over again.

Africa is going nowhere without power.

 

[TedShatner10]

We need to change the political landscape in Africa before moving on with other stuff - get rid of the criminally insane, hypercorrupt despots and warlords being propped up by greedy foreign corporations.