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So what happens to character images?

If this movie is a big hit, licensees aren't going to be satisfied to shell out serious bucks for a Trek license unless they're allowed to use the likenesses of these actors and these designs.

"Forty years" doesn't mean squat in those terms. There is no sentiment involved.

If the movie bombs, Shatner's youthful likeness will probably continue to be marketable to the remaining, diminishing fan base.

I agree but I think they will still keep the Shatner and the rest, as a parallel line of characters, lumping them into a category like Classic Kirk or Classic NCC-1701 vs. plain Star Trek Kirk which would be Pine and his crew regardless of the movie's success. Sort of like how they separate (and I hate to bring up Star Wars) the different Star Wars lines - Clone Wars, movies, new Jedi Order.
 
If this movie is a big hit, licensees aren't going to be satisfied to shell out serious bucks for a Trek license unless they're allowed to use the likenesses of these actors and these designs.

"Forty years" doesn't mean squat in those terms. There is no sentiment involved.

If the movie bombs, Shatner's youthful likeness will probably continue to be marketable to the remaining, diminishing fan base.

I agree but I think they will still keep the Shatner and the rest, as a parallel line of characters, lumping them into a category like Classic Kirk or Classic NCC-1701 vs. plain Star Trek Kirk which would be Pine and his crew regardless of the movie's success. Sort of like how they separate (and I hate to bring up Star Wars) the different Star Wars lines - Clone Wars, movies, new Jedi Order.
I think that's exactly what will happen, but only if this new film is successful and more are made.
 
I disagree. I have a funny feeling that regardless of the success of the movie, with the money invested in the newer design items, they are here to stay.
 
I agree but I think they will still keep the Shatner and the rest, as a parallel line of characters, lumping them into a category like Classic Kirk or Classic NCC-1701 vs. plain Star Trek Kirk which would be Pine and his crew regardless of the movie's success.

Well yeah, I don't think they'll start using Pine to push the TOS DVDs. :lol:
 
Even the STAR WARS films from all four decades were united under one-size-fits-all packaging and promotions when it comes to their toys and collectibles. Gone are the days when you had separate packaging and logos for the Classic/Special Edition Trilogy and the prequels.

Actually...

There are two types of packaging for STAR WARS at the moment, though they look very similar...

The Clone Wars Collection & The Legacy Collection.

True. But this year in '09 aren't they supposed to unify EVERYTHING under one packaging template and banner? That was the rumor anyways.
 
Even the STAR WARS films from all four decades were united under one-size-fits-all packaging and promotions when it comes to their toys and collectibles. Gone are the days when you had separate packaging and logos for the Classic/Special Edition Trilogy and the prequels.

Actually...

There are two types of packaging for STAR WARS at the moment, though they look very similar...

The Clone Wars Collection & The Legacy Collection.

True. But this year in '09 aren't they supposed to unify EVERYTHING under one packaging template and banner? That was the rumor anyways.

From what I understand CBS Consumer Products is handling the first five series and ten films under one template/unified packaging, and the Star Trek film is being handled by Paramount and has its own packaging and theme.
 
I agree but I think they will still keep the Shatner and the rest, as a parallel line of characters, lumping them into a category like Classic Kirk or Classic NCC-1701 vs. plain Star Trek Kirk which would be Pine and his crew regardless of the movie's success.

Well yeah, I don't think they'll start using Pine to push the TOS DVDs. :lol:

:lol:

OK, let me rephrase that - i think there will always be two separate lines going forward,regardless of movie success.
 
From what I understand CBS Consumer Products is handling the first five series and ten films under one template/unified packaging, and the Star Trek film is being handled by Paramount and has its own packaging and theme.

Paula Block, of CBS Consumer Products, is still overseeing licensed products for the new movie.
 
The mere existence of a Star Trek Monopoly game featuring the new likenesses is proof that Abrams is trying to hog everything for himself.
 
From what I understand CBS Consumer Products is handling the first five series and ten films under one template/unified packaging, and the Star Trek film is being handled by Paramount and has its own packaging and theme.

Paula Block, of CBS Consumer Products, is still overseeing licensed products for the new movie.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Must just be different packaging then.
 
I agree but I think they will still keep the Shatner and the rest, as a parallel line of characters, lumping them into a category like Classic Kirk or Classic NCC-1701 vs. plain Star Trek Kirk which would be Pine and his crew regardless of the movie's success.

Well yeah, I don't think they'll start using Pine to push the TOS DVDs. :lol:

:lol:

OK, let me rephrase that - i think there will always be two separate lines going forward,regardless of movie success.
Now, c'mon... if this movie is an unmitigated disaster, I suspect that they'd forget it entirely (from that standpoint).

It'd be like the '70s Cathy Lee Crosby "Wonder Woman" "reimagination." Which was, just a few years later, reversed by the Linda Carter "Wonder Woman" revival which went back to the original concept.


Yes, both "happened" and both are "remembered." But one is accepted, the other isn't.
 
Now, c'mon... if this movie is an unmitigated disaster...

Just curious, do you think that's a realistic possibility? I can see the film not drawing the kind of money it needs to be labeled a success in light of its budget, but an unmitigated disaster? I'll be very surprised if this film doesn't do at least as well as TVH.
 
Now, c'mon... if this movie is an unmitigated disaster...

Just curious, do you think that's a realistic possibility? I can see the film not drawing the kind of money it needs to be labeled a success in light of its budget, but an unmitigated disaster? I'll be very surprised if this film doesn't do at least as well as TVH.

The worst that will probably happen is that it will be "mixed," and barely make a profit (by the two-times-gross measure). If that happens, of course, this board's existence is for the next few years is guaranteed.
 
Now, c'mon... if this movie is an unmitigated disaster...

Just curious, do you think that's a realistic possibility? I can see the film not drawing the kind of money it needs to be labeled a success in light of its budget, but an unmitigated disaster? I'll be very surprised if this film doesn't do at least as well as TVH.
Not one of us has seen the movie, so of COURSE I think it's a "realistic possibility."

I remember the hype (and the money) behind the remake of "The Wild, Wild West."

I remember the hype (and the money) behind the remake of "Lost in Space."

I remember the hype (and the money) behind the film version of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."

And there are the non-remakes that fall into the same general theme. For instance, I remember the hype (and the money) behind "Waterworld."

Finally... hell, I remember the pre-release "buzz" about Nemesis.

So of COURSE I think it's a possibility. This isn't the same as saying that I'm predicting it WILL happen. I'm saying that nobody really knows how it will turn out.

If it's a success... and if there are multiple films in a "mini-series" with these actors and the "altered-timeline/altered-look" scenario...we'll more than likely see (as I described earlier in the thread) a "branching" where these stories are in an alternative spin-off continuity... somewhat akin to stories set in the "Mirror Mirror" universe in that sense. There will be the "Trek Universe" and there will be the "Trek-Prime universe"... Earth One and Earth Two... it's been done before.

A few of us are old enough to remember back when DC comics really was into the "alternate Earths" concept... I have several books from when I was a kid where the "Earth 1/Earth 2 Crossovers" took place, with both Supermen, both Batmen, etc, fighting side-by-side. This was after DC realized, having ATTEMPTED to "replace the old with a new version," that there were too many people who preferred the old versions.

EVERY time that someone has ever tried doing this "forget what you know, accept the new version" there's been a resulting schism in the fan base. And once you go down that path, it's pretty much impossible to fix the damage.

As a rule, it's smarter to have the old characters move on, retire or whatever, and introduce new characters.

If I'd been in charge of the Trek franchise back in 1979, I'd have insisted that Decker and Ilia not be "poofed into swirly lights" at the end, I'd have insisted on keeping Xon around, etc, etc. Introduce new characters and let things evolve. Let characters leave, move on or die or whatever, and introduce new ones. Keep it interesting, rather than stagnant.

The problem with this movie, to me, isn't that it's going back to the classic characters, but that it's (evidently) REDEFINING them. There may be a way to make that fit (the classic Trekkian "reset button," basically) but it still bugs me from what I've seen so far. I don't mind the recasting (for the most part) but I see missed opportunities and missteps here which worry me.

Still, if this movie is a one-off... and I remain convinced that's a better-than-even likelihood... it can be made to "fit" easily enough, I'm sure. It need not "redefine" what we know. And, given that, shots of a "young Kirk" can look like this guy while shots of "mature Captain Kirk" can be Shatnerian, I suppose. Hell, they may morph something half-way in between (I'd be shocked if nobody has seriously tried that already, actually!)
 
If I'd been in charge of the Trek franchise back in 1979, I'd have insisted that Decker and Ilia not be "poofed into swirly lights" at the end, I'd have insisted on keeping Xon around, etc, etc.

Well, if TMP had been a critical success, they'd have started tapping into the already-existing "Phase II" scripts. At the end of the "In Thy Image" telemovie, the Ilia Probe (called "Tasha" by Chekov, after his Aunt Tasha's pearl ring) reverted to a burnt out piece of machinery lying on the ground after Decker merged with Vejur. The real Ilia suddenly materialises, unharmed! And Decker sends a message that he may be back... eventually. Whichever script had been selected to be the "next episode" would have started with the successful attempt to restore Decker to this plane of existence, so he could say all the lines in the 12 other completed scripts.

And yeah, Xon would have turned up as a regular, because Nimoy wasn't keen on doing more Spock, esp. not for TV movies and episodes.

Introduce new characters and let things evolve. Let characters leave, move on or die or whatever, and introduce new ones. Keep it interesting, rather than stagnant.
And that was the reason for David Marcus and "Dr Savik", who became Lt Saavik. Nimoy's desire to return as Spock essentially squashed that potential growth.

According to Billy Van Zandt (Rhaandarite Ensign), all the bridge actors in TMP had an expectation that their services were quite likely to be required if "Phase II" had been resurrected as an idea after TMP's cinema run. He once told me, in an interview, that, as the filming drew to a close, when he realised he'd really had nothing substantial to do on that bridge for three months, other than be a glorified extra in alien makeup, and they were searching for a dramatic ending, he started asking to be killed off by the Ilia Probe!

The problem with this movie, to me, isn't that it's going back to the classic characters, but that it's (evidently) REDEFINING them. There may be a way to make that fit (the classic Trekkian "reset button," basically) but it still bugs me from what I've seen so far. I don't mind the recasting (for the most part) but I see missed opportunities and missteps here which worry me.
Their personalities aren't changing, although we may see different aspects. I still consider the ST II and ST III/IV Saaviks as the same person, although the actresses (and the way they were directed in their scenes) certainly presented new aspects to the character.
 
Even the STAR WARS films from all four decades were united under one-size-fits-all packaging and promotions when it comes to their toys and collectibles. Gone are the days when you had separate packaging and logos for the Classic/Special Edition Trilogy and the prequels.

Actually...

There are two types of packaging for STAR WARS at the moment, though they look very similar...

The Clone Wars Collection & The Legacy Collection.

True. But this year in '09 aren't they supposed to unify EVERYTHING under one packaging template and banner? That was the rumor anyways.


They have both Collection's using the same Blue-Colored, Jedi Font with a White Background, but as you can see below the packaging is slightly different.
But you have to look closely to really notice.

2009StarWarsPackaging.jpg


Anyway, from what I've seen so far of the New Star Trek stuff online, it looks very similar to the packaging used by AA for their stuff.
 
Actually...

There are two types of packaging for STAR WARS at the moment, though they look very similar...

The Clone Wars Collection & The Legacy Collection.

True. But this year in '09 aren't they supposed to unify EVERYTHING under one packaging template and banner? That was the rumor anyways.


They have both Collection's using the same Blue-Colored, Jedi Font with a White Background, but as you can see below the packaging is slightly different.
But you have to look closely to really notice.

2009StarWarsPackaging.jpg


Anyway, from what I've seen so far of the New Star Trek stuff online, it looks very similar to the packaging used by AA for their stuff.


Fair point about the STAR WARS toys. Yeah, they've gotten very sutble since 2005 and the last movie about their packaging differences. Between 1995 and 2005 the modern Kenner/Hasbro stuff often came in wildly divergent packaging depending on which set of movies or Expanded Universe material they were supposed to come from. Got used to the drastic differences in color and shape.
 
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