Kes V Seven of Nine

[exodus]

I'm not sure I buy the whole "emotional dampener came from Icheb's cortical node" theory. It occurred to me that if Icheb had such a dampener it should have gone off when he discovered he was betrayed by his parents. I mean, these are the people who are supposed to love you unconditionally. Can there be a larger betrayal?

But Seven responded to that betrayal more emotionally than Icheb did. He seemed pretty calm about the whole thing.

And Seven certainly responded emotionally many times before the emotional inhibitor was revealed. She went off half-cocked in Dark Frontier--a truly emotional response. She had a completely human emotional response to her own mortality in "Imperfection." The death of One, her feelings of remorse (expressed pretty cogently to Neelix in "Memorial")...

Perhaps the dampener was aimed toward sexual arousal rather than emotions?

That was the impression I got, not sex but rather love.

She could experance emotions but not the deeper ones, like love.
I would think allowing such stronger emotions would make it easier for assimilated people to resist compling with the collective. So having an inhibitor would dull your resistance.

 

[teya]

She could experance emotions but not the deeper ones, like love.

Yet she was willing to sacrifice herself for her "family" on Voyager how many times? She refused to let Icheb put himself in danger for her.

These are examples of someone who *loves* those people--so much she's willing to put her own life aside for theirs.

 

[exodus]

She could experance emotions but not the deeper ones, like love.

Yet she was willing to sacrifice herself for her "family" on Voyager how many times? She refused to let Icheb put himself in danger for her.

These are examples of someone who *loves* those people--so much she's willing to put her own life aside for theirs.

Love for ones friends is still different than deep romantic love.

Neelix loved his friends on Voyager but he still left them to pursue having a deeper connection with a wife who was also Talaxian.

 

[teya]

She could experance emotions but not the deeper ones, like love.

Yet she was willing to sacrifice herself for her "family" on Voyager how many times? She refused to let Icheb put himself in danger for her.

These are examples of someone who *loves* those people--so much she's willing to put her own life aside for theirs.

Love for ones friends is still different than deep romantic love.

If you are willing to sacrifice your life, that's love.

What type doesn't matter.

 

[exodus]

Yet she was willing to sacrifice herself for her "family" on Voyager how many times? She refused to let Icheb put himself in danger for her.

These are examples of someone who *loves* those people--so much she's willing to put her own life aside for theirs.

Love for ones friends is still different than deep romantic love.

If you are willing to sacrifice your life, that's love.

What type doesn't matter.

In this case, I think it does.

 

[teya]

Love for ones friends is still different than deep romantic love.

If you are willing to sacrifice your life, that's love.

What type doesn't matter.

In this case, I think it does.

We'll have to disagree on that.

You're such a romantic.

 

[exodus]

If you are willing to sacrifice your life, that's love.

What type doesn't matter.

In this case, I think it does.

We'll have to disagree on that.

You're such a romantic.

Bugs Bunny singing: "Yes, I know it. I can't help it."

 

[tomalak301]

I liked Both characters, but I prefer Kes over Seven mostly. For one, I thought Jennifer Lien was really cute in the role, without losing that strength or innocense of her character. I also liked that Kes wasn't there to find or understand her humanity like Data, Odo, or Seven. She was there is a passenger/member of the crew who did make an impact. She opened up to pretty much everyone on the crew and gave everyone a chance, whether it was the EMH who was the outcast, or Janeway, who she looked to as a mother figure. There was just that innocence about her that I really liked. The writers taking the easy way out saying she was hard to write for is just lazyness I think. There were many possiblities to go with Kes, and it would have been great if Lien and Ryan had both been members of the cast, not one or the other.

As for 7, she was interesting too. I don't see her as the barbie of borg type as others might but I can see why she would be refered to that by what the writers forced Ryan to wear. I liked her development, but was saddened after the episode "Human Error" that it was never taken to the next step. I do however find her episodes when the hair was down, or she was more Annika than Seven (Such as Unimatrix 0, and Killing Game) my favorite "Seven" episodes.

 

[JustKate]

I went for a tie - I liked them both in different ways, and I thought they did different things for the show. My problem with Kes is that she wasn't written for very well - that made her a little bland. My problem with Seven is that she was written for TOO much - more on some of the others would have been necessary, if you ask me. And whoever started this thread kind of did!

 

[The Borg Queen]

She could experance emotions but not the deeper ones, like love.

Yet she was willing to sacrifice herself for her "family" on Voyager how many times? She refused to let Icheb put himself in danger for her.

These are examples of someone who *loves* those people--so much she's willing to put her own life aside for theirs.

You could also explain it in terms of the Borg, and thus Seven of Nine, being the ultimate pragmatists.

 

[teya]

She could experance emotions but not the deeper ones, like love.

Yet she was willing to sacrifice herself for her "family" on Voyager how many times? She refused to let Icheb put himself in danger for her.

These are examples of someone who *loves* those people--so much she's willing to put her own life aside for theirs.

You could also explain it in terms of the Borg, and thus Seven of Nine, being the ultimate pragmatists.

Borg--as the ultimate pragmatists--don't cry. They also don't well up manipulatively, even, since Borg have no need for deception.

 

[kimc]

However, Icheb definately didn't want to stay on the planet with his parents but eventually he did so out of love. Then that love was betrayed. If he were wearing a dampener at the time it would have been going off.

Yet, at the end of the episode, he was justifying their actions.

Strange how he would come to their defense after they betrayed him like that. You'd think he still loved them or something.

 

[teya]

However, Icheb definately didn't want to stay on the planet with his parents but eventually he did so out of love. Then that love was betrayed. If he were wearing a dampener at the time it would have been going off.

Yet, at the end of the episode, he was justifying their actions.

Strange how he would come to their defense after they betrayed him like that. You'd think he still loved them or something.

I'd expect ambivalence, like Seven felt for her parents--love, yes, but rage as well.

Now, it could be argued he was repressing his emotional response to protect himself...

 

[kimc]

But Seven responded to that betrayal more emotionally than Icheb did. He seemed pretty calm about the whole thing.

Teenage boys don't do a lot of emoting to begin with although I'm admittedly not an expert.

Um, yeah, they do. They don't do a lot of crying--at least in front of others--however they are definitely prone to emotional outbursts.

Now, it could be argued he was repressing his emotional response to protect himself...

Okay, so which is it?

 

[teya]

Teenage boys don't do a lot of emoting to begin with although I'm admittedly not an expert.

Um, yeah, they do. They don't do a lot of crying--at least in front of others--however they are definitely prone to emotional outbursts.

Now, it could be argued he was repressing his emotional response to protect himself...

Okay, so which is it?

Anyone who is really traumatized can go into a repression mode--it's a denial reaction. I'd say that kind of betrayal would be a huge emotional trauma.

 

[kimc]

Um, yeah, they do. They don't do a lot of crying--at least in front of others--however they are definitely prone to emotional outbursts.

Now, it could be argued he was repressing his emotional response to protect himself...

Okay, so which is it?

Anyone who is really traumatized can go into a repression mode--it's a denial reaction. I'd say that kind of betrayal would be a huge emotional trauma.

Which in my mind would set off an emotional dampener if Icheb had one. Repressing emotions may keep them from the conscious mind but I doubt the borg were inefficient enough to ignore the subconscious.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Icheb has his removed in 7.02 and they stuck it in Seven who didn't have problems much with it for 15 episodes.

I wonder if they had this technology earlier, that they could have castrated Kes' godlike super abilities so that she could have stayed aboard Voyger after all?

 

[Kirk1980]

Oh, I thought this was a Who Is Sexier thread....

HOOOOOOOOOOO!

Jeri Ryan all the way.

*you may now resume maturity

 

[crusher]

Have to say Kes was my preferred choice. I found Seven that annoying femake version of Wesley Crusher that they always turned to when the day needed to be saved. It's amazing how well Voyager did before she came along with the Borg technology. I loved Kes' child like innocence and how she wanted to help everyone.

 

[Tachyon]

Have to say Kes was my preferred choice. I found Seven that annoying femake version of Wesley Crusher that they always turned to when the day needed to be saved. It's amazing how well Voyager did before she came along with the Borg technology. I loved Kes' child like innocence and how she wanted to help everyone.

Female version of Wesley Crusher... good point. Never thought about it like that before.