Braga is, it seems, STILL an idiot!

[DragonLady]

^
I've been away for a while, Anna.

Back when I was posting regularly, no one wanted to hear any cross word said about anything regarding Enterprise.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

I did indeed read the whole article.

Braga admits the ep was f-ed up. He then goes on to say he can't figure out WHY it was.

Have you ever written anything for public consumption? A blog post, or anything? Sometimes you try your best, you start out with a good idea, but at the end of the day, things just don't come together the way you hoped. That's all he was saying, not that he can't identify the flaws in TATV given enough time.

You should listen to the commentary track he did with Ronald Moore for Generations. There, he's pretty candid and detailed about what went wrong with the script.

The answer is as plain as the nose on one's face: you DON'T do a series finale that focuses on characters FROM ANOTHER SHOW. You don't summarily kill off a popular character in a dumb way. You don't summarily kill off a character relationship that the ep IMMEDIATELY before had just firmly established.

So, what you're saying is that if they had a) removed the TNG characters from the script, and b) had Trip alive at the end, TATV would have been the greatest hour of Trek on television? I don't think the problems with that episode's script are quite that simple and pat.

 

[cooleddie74]

He aknowledges his failure on the writing of TATV.
He still asserts his intent with the episode and admits the story was lackluster.
He misses Star Trek and wishes it well with the new people that are running it now.

I don't see the problem here.

Why must we always make it one?

Even with all my longstanding skepticism of Braga I accept his story. He knows "TATV" was a stinker and has progressed beyond it. He's being fairly classy about Abrams taking over the franchise and wishing him/the new movie well. I don't see problems here.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

So, what you're saying is that if they had a) removed the TNG characters from the script, and b) had Trip alive at the end, TATV would have been the greatest hour of Trek on television? I don't think the problems with that episode's script are quite that simple and pat.

You forgot c) not summarily breaking up Trip/T'pol.

Those three problems fixed, it wouldn't necessarily have been the GREATEST hour of Trek (frankly, the storyline needed two hours to tell, just like the other modern Trek's got), but it would have been pretty good.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

How about you "smart guys" who are sniggering actually DEFEND those choices Braga made that pissed everyone off?

I'll just paste what I wrote in another thread.

Honestly, I think it was not the idea that was the problem but the execution, a common theme with Berman-Braga scripts. I like the idea of going back and showing us an old episode from a different perspective (it worked before: "Trials and Tribble-lations"). The holodeck could have been an interesting way to have the casts of two shows interacting without having yet another cliched time travel story.

Hell, even the death of Trip wasn't that bad of an idea. In the hands of good writers, it could have been a poignant way to end the series, and a vast improvement over the non-ending that Voyager got.

 

[cooleddie74]

"TATV" might have been salvageable with a much more poignant and meaty death for Trip as well as a two-hour time slot to allow most if not all the lead characters to have a proper sendoff.

 

[frenchman]

How about you "smart guys" who are sniggering actually DEFEND those choices Braga made that pissed everyone off?

I'll just paste what I wrote in another thread.

Honestly, I think it was not the idea that was the problem but the execution, a common theme with Berman-Braga scripts. I like the idea of going back and showing us an old episode from a different perspective (it worked before: "Trials and Tribble-lations"). The holodeck could have been an interesting way to have the casts of two shows interacting without having yet another cliched time travel story.

Hell, even the death of Trip wasn't that bad of an idea. In the hands of good writers, it could have been a poignant way to end the series, and a vast improvement over the non-ending that Voyager got.

thank you !!! it's exactely what i think. killing one of the most populat character of the show would have been a great idea if it had been well written. and this would have been given an emotional time.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

How about you "smart guys" who are sniggering actually DEFEND those choices Braga made that pissed everyone off?

I'll just paste what I wrote in another thread.

Honestly, I think it was not the idea that was the problem but the execution, a common theme with Berman-Braga scripts. I like the idea of going back and showing us an old episode from a different perspective (it worked before: "Trials and Tribble-lations"). The holodeck could have been an interesting way to have the casts of two shows interacting without having yet another cliched time travel story.

Hell, even the death of Trip wasn't that bad of an idea. In the hands of good writers, it could have been a poignant way to end the series, and a vast improvement over the non-ending that Voyager got.

Berman and Braga had virtually NOTHING to do with "Trials..." Berman never saw DS9 as being all that important so he let the line producers pretty much run it and Braga was on Voyager.

 

[SFRabid]

I don't like TATV, and I frequently critisize BnB, make jokes about them, and give them a hard time. But, I have to say they accomplished more with Trek than me or anyone here. There are more positives with Enterprise than negatives, and without them we probably would not have Enterprise.

I sometimes think that if someone else had done Enterprise under the thumb of "that network" it might have been even worse.

 

[number6]

How about you "smart guys" who are sniggering actually DEFEND those choices Braga made that pissed everyone off?

Which choices would those be??

I guarantee that Braga's choices didn't piss off everyone, because you could never get 10 fans in a room that could agree what those choices were. I am even more certain that you can't find three choices that pissed me off.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here because I like Enterprise. I also like Star Trek. I have found something I enjoy in all the series to varying degrees. That is mostly because I don't come into Star Trek with a laundry list of expectation that I expect exactly met. I came into Enterprise with no set of expectations, except to see a series that sets the stage for how Star Trek all began. I think a lot of Enterprise did that well.



The only threads I ever see here is "_________SUXX" and "________is an idiot" and "_______suffers from poor wrtiting" and "_______is being dumbed down for the drooling masses."

What exactly are you supposed to be fans of?? Why are you here??

Even worse is the constant implication is that my liking what Braga did for Trek makes me less intelligent or less informed than the rest of you???

I call bullshit on that, too.

I don't really have a problem with Brannon Braga. I liked the stuff he wrote on TNG and even some of what he wrote for VOY. I enjoyed nearly all of ENT. My disappointment for TATV doesn't signify the end of civilization or negate any of the great things Braga has brought to Trek over his 15 years.


The stuff he says about Trek now doesn't bother me at all. He clearly enjoyed his time and moved onto othr things.

Hell, I am convinced that very few of you actually have any idea of what he did on Star Trek (considering most of you blame him for stuff that he was never even involved in--i.e. things like Nemesis and Season 7 of VOY), or even things that Berman was responsible for (Like DS9-which he CREATED.)


The bashing is old.

Get a new hobby.

 

[TheGodBen]

Honestly, I think it was not the idea that was the problem but the execution, a common theme with Berman-Braga scripts. I like the idea of going back and showing us an old episode from a different perspective (it worked before: "Trials and Tribble-lations"). The holodeck could have been an interesting way to have the casts of two shows interacting without having yet another cliched time travel story.

Hell, even the death of Trip wasn't that bad of an idea. In the hands of good writers, it could have been a poignant way to end the series, and a vast improvement over the non-ending that Voyager got.

Agreed 100%. When I first heard about the plot of TATV I honestly didn't mind the idea so much, and I didn't mind that Trip would die. I heard all the hate it was getting after airing in the States and assumed it was just a bunch of whiny fans who were upset about it being set on the holodeck and because of Trip's death.

Then I saw the episode and it was crap. The writing was rubbish, the acting was terrible and none of it made any kind of sense. And the way Trip killed himself was utterly moronic. I hate TATV because it was incredibly badly done.

Braga does deserve some of the blame for what happened to Trek but he doesn't deserve all the crap he gets on this board. He was a good writer on TNG and early Voyager, but he ran out of steam and began writing episodes which didn't suit his talents. He messed up and Trek fans are never going to let him forget it.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind him back on Trek so long as Ron Moore was there too because those guys used to work well together. It will never happen though because they have both moved on and Trek may never even come back to the small screen.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

How about you "smart guys" who are sniggering actually DEFEND those choices Braga made that pissed everyone off?

Which choices would those be??

I guarantee that Braga's choices didn't piss off everyone, because you could never get 10 fans in a room that could agree what those choices were. I am even more certain that you can't find three choices that pissed me off.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here because I like Enterprise. I also like Star Trek. I have found something I enjoy in all the series to varying degrees. That is mostly because I don't come into Star Trek with a laundry list of expectation that I expect exactly met. I came into Enterprise with no set of expectations, except to see a series that sets the stage for how Star Trek all began. I think a lot of Enterprise did that well.



The only threads I ever see here is "_________SUXX" and "________is an idiot" and "_______suffers from poor wrtiting" and "_______is being dumbed down for the drooling masses."

What exactly are you supposed to be fans of?? Why are you here??

Even worse is the constant implication is that my liking what Braga did for Trek makes me less intelligent or less informed than the rest of you???

I call bullshit on that, too.

I don't really have a problem with Brannon Braga. I liked the stuff he wrote on TNG and even some of what he wrote for VOY. I enjoyed nearly all of ENT. My disappointment for TATV doesn't signify the end of civilization or negate any of the great things Braga has brought to Trek over his 15 years.


The stuff he says about Trek now doesn't bother me at all. He clearly enjoyed his time and moved onto othr things.

Hell, I am convinced that very few of you actually have any idea of what he did on Star Trek (considering most of you blame him for stuff that he was never even involved in--i.e. things like Nemesis and Season 7 of VOY), or even things that Berman was responsible for (Like DS9-which he CREATED.)


The bashing is old.

Get a new hobby.

Uhhh...excuse me, but no "basher" here...I LIKED "Enterprise" in general, especially Season 4. It was TATV that I hated.

 

[Broccoli]

number6...STOP...MAKING...SENSE!!!!!

 

[number6]

How about you "smart guys" who are sniggering actually DEFEND those choices Braga made that pissed everyone off?

Which choices would those be??

I guarantee that Braga's choices didn't piss off everyone, because you could never get 10 fans in a room that could agree what those choices were. I am even more certain that you can't find three choices that pissed me off.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here because I like Enterprise.

Uhhh...excuse me, but no "basher" here...I LIKED "Enterprise" in general, especially Season 4. It was TATV that I hated.

So all of this is because of one episode of ENT?????

That not only makes this thread even more disturbing, but it reinforces everything I have said in it.

number6...STOP...MAKING...SENSE!!!!!

.....can't......help.....it.... Rover got to me.

 

[Broccoli]

number6...STOP...MAKING...SENSE!!!!!

.....can't......help.....it.... Rover got to me.

I'll send you a needle...after all, it's just a balloon.

 

[RandyS]

I have found something I enjoy in all the series to varying degrees.

The bashing is old.

Get a new hobby.

I don't like TATV any better than the rest of you. Even Trip's death (a character I hated with a passion, incidentally) was stupidly written. But I agree with Number6 here.

 

[number6]

number6...STOP...MAKING...SENSE!!!!!

.....can't......help.....it.... Rover got to me.

I'll send you a needle...after all, it's just a balloon.

But it's filled with Nitrous!!!

 

[Broccoli]

.....can't......help.....it.... Rover got to me.

I'll send you a needle...after all, it's just a balloon.

But it's filled with Nitrous!!!

Hmm....well, I tried.

 

[SFRabid]

Uhhh...excuse me, but no "basher" here...I LIKED "Enterprise" in general, especially Season 4. It was TATV that I hated.

Maybe the title of the thread lead us to believe otherwise.

 

[trekkerguy]

How about you "smart guys" who are sniggering actually DEFEND those choices Braga made that pissed everyone off?

Nothing to defend. It only feeds your fire.

I liked the show and it's conclusion, you didn't.


The End.