Latecomer To This: JANEWAY DIED?!?

[Thrawn]

I agree here. I think that the different relaunches started to lose its affection for many fans when they started to split up the original crews. It's probably the main reason why so many fans prefer fan fiction before the books.

But it's also the main reason that I, and so many fans like me (if you can play that card, I can too) LOVE the books SO much more than any fanfiction; because they're one big integrated story instead of a bunch of disconnected ones, and anything can happen now.

Again, it goes both ways, and you have only your intuition to say if your "many fans" is bigger than my "many fans". You keep acting like this is universally negative, and it's just a solid fact that it's not.

 

[Sci]

Thrawn, why are you feeding them? Let them ramble in peace, I say.

 

[Thrawn]

Thrawn, why are you feeding them? Let them ramble in peace, I say.

Lynx and I actually had a really respectful, informative exchange in the other Janeway thread, and I thought this post of his wasn't at all disrespectful. I'm attempting to ignore rude posts, not posters I personally dislike. "I can't understand why they'd want to waste her" is, I think, a completely respectful thing to say, even though I disagree.

I'm a high school teacher; I have an unwavering belief that people can learn from their mistakes, no matter how many times they don't

 

[captcalhoun]

you're deluded going on the evidence so far.

 

[Thrawn]

you're deluded going on the evidence so far.

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2593891&postcount=391

 

[Steve Roby]

Once again, it's claimed that the Voyager crew "can't" be brought back together now that they are back in the AQ, and yet that is exactly what happened in the TOS movies time and time again.

Yes, and a lot of fans found that implausible, too. But the TOS crew were never away from their homes for most of a decade, they were never forced together with former enemies on the same ship, they never had advanced future tech grafted onto their ship. The Voyager crew did experience that. Nobody would send that same bunch of people right back out into space, let alone on the same ship, and there's no believable way that everyone on Voyager would even want to go back on that ship.

Unlikely though it may be that the TOS crew kept getting together, we did get indications that their own lives went in different directions between movies, with Kirk becoming an admiral and taking a desk job, Spock teaching at Starfleet Academy, Chekov serving on the Reliant, and Sulu getting command of the Excelsior. Why wouldn't that sort of thing happen with the Voyager crew? Especially since the movies showed us that Janeway also became an admiral and took a desk job? Or does that not count, because it was a major Janeway development that was shown in TNG and not Voyager?

I agree here. I think that the different relaunches started to lose its affection for many fans when they started to split up the original crews.

The books didn't split up the crews. The TV series finale "What You Leave Behind" split up the DS9 crew. The movie Nemesis split up the TNG crew. The series finale "Endgame" shattered the status quo for the Voyager crew, which keeps the books from doing the same old thing. You can't honestly blame the books' editors and writers for this. The whole reason for the relaunches was to deal with the big changes made on TV and in the movies.

ETA: someone's having fun coming up with tags for this thread.

 

[JoeZhang]

Yes, and a lot of fans found that implausible, too. But the TOS crew were never away from their homes for most of a decade, they were never forced together with former enemies on the same ship, they never had advanced future tech grafted onto their ship.

But Voyager had a deeper problem than that - the TOS crew represented the best of the best - The Voyager crew was half criminal and never-do-wells, now the series dropped that angle within a couple of episodes (straining it's credibility from the start) but it was never plausible to me that after they got back that many of those people would want to remain in Star Fleet let alone on Voyager.

The voyager relaunch actually should have been the most radical of the lot because many of the characters would presumably have fairly shady pasts waiting for them in the AQ and difficult decisions about what they were going to do next but instead they all became model Starfleet officers and Chakotay became a magical indian.

 

[DimesDan]

Is this still going on? I would have thought a mod would have closed it before it hit the seven hundred plus post mark!

 

[Gorf]

Why?

As long as people are discussing the issue in a civil manner, I don't see why it should be closed down.

I mean nobody are forcing any of us to either read it or post in it.

 

[LightningStorm]

As long as people are discussing the issue in a civil manner, I don't see why it should be closed down.

Indeed. And this thread is much more civil than the other one that reached 700+.

 

[DimesDan]

Why?

As long as people are discussing the issue in a civil manner, I don't see why it should be closed down.

I mean nobody are forcing any of us to either read it or post in it.

Very true, I've only skimmed the last few hundred posts as frankly I've left this thread alone, along with the "carrot" thread for about a week (when the feminist card was begining to be used - Oh and by the way, I count myself as one, just not the type that advocate women staying home and making cakes and looking after the children) but it just feels like, I don't know, just a pointless argument in futility. For which ever reason it occurred, Janeway got assimilated by the Borg and then in one last push of her personality through that of the Borg Queen, she sacrificed herself to save Seven and the Federation as a whole and then "evolved" to a higher state of being and possibly died. Now she's not likely to come back post Before Dishonour, but she might if there is more than "I'm going to bring Kathy back just because I can" story pitched to TPTB at Pocket, there is also the possibility of stories set in Voyager's journey back to the Federation. It's just, well, not happened just yet and it might never will, but then again, it still might.

 

[Ktrek]

For which ever reason it occurred, Janeway got assimilated by the Borg and then in one last push of her personality through that of the Borg Queen, she sacrificed herself to save Seven and the Federation as a whole and then "evolved" to a higher state of being and possibly died. Now she's not likely to come back post Before Dishonour, but she might if there is more than "I'm going to bring Kathy back just because I can" story pitched to TPTB at Pocket, there is also the possibility of stories set in Voyager's journey back to the Federation. It's just, well, not happened just yet and it might never will, but then again, it still might.

All she has to do is click her heels in her ruby slippers three times and say "there's no place like home" and poof! the reset button is turned on.

Kevin

 

[Hartzilla2007]

For which ever reason it occurred, Janeway got assimilated by the Borg and then in one last push of her personality through that of the Borg Queen, she sacrificed herself to save Seven and the Federation as a whole and then "evolved" to a higher state of being and possibly died. Now she's not likely to come back post Before Dishonour, but she might if there is more than "I'm going to bring Kathy back just because I can" story pitched to TPTB at Pocket, there is also the possibility of stories set in Voyager's journey back to the Federation. It's just, well, not happened just yet and it might never will, but then again, it still might.

All she has to do is click her heels in her ruby slippers three times and say "there's no place like home" and poof! the reset button is turned on.

Kevin

I though the writers sold the reset button at a garage sale.

 

[MilitantJaneway]

I agree here. I think that the different relaunches started to lose its affection for many fans when they started to split up the original crews. It's probably the main reason why so many fans prefer fan fiction before the books.

But it's also the main reason that I, and so many fans like me (if you can play that card, I can too) LOVE the books SO much more than any fanfiction; because they're one big integrated story instead of a bunch of disconnected ones, and anything can happen now.

Again, it goes both ways, and you have only your intuition to say if your "many fans" is bigger than my "many fans". You keep acting like this is universally negative, and it's just a solid fact that it's not.

Thrawn this actually hits the nail on the head for me. When I was complaining to spouse about KJ being killed off, he said why does it bother you because you read so much fanfic anyways. I didn't really have much of an answer to that because, some fanfic stories are brilliant, and in my opinion better than some drivel I have read in print. But it does not and will not have that continuity that you see in the books. Its amazing really how many different ways J and C can get together, but then in the next story you are back to square one, it does get dull after a bit. That is why seeing Janeway being killed off was such a blow for me, because i want to see more of her, of her evolving role in the books (and I don't mean as lady Q sidekick).

 

[Lynx]

Thrawn, why are you feeding them? Let them ramble in peace, I say.

Lynx and I actually had a really respectful, informative exchange in the other Janeway thread, and I thought this post of his wasn't at all disrespectful. I'm attempting to ignore rude posts, not posters I personally dislike. "I can't understand why they'd want to waste her" is, I think, a completely respectful thing to say, even though I disagree.

I'm a high school teacher; I have an unwavering belief that people can learn from their mistakes, no matter how many times they don't

As I've stated before, I have no intention to create some instant arguing or get personal enemies among other Star Trek fans and I have no intention to be mean and nasty either. Therefore I will do my best to keep the upcoming debates about this cordial.

The problem is that when I'm annoyed or really p***ed off with something, I do have a tendency to get nasty and this "Janeway thing" has made me annoyed and p***ed off.

There have simply been too many decisions by people in charge in the recent years which have or are about to ruin my interest for Star Trek, at least the official part of it.

But that is no excuse for bad behavior, I'm the only one who can be blamed for that.

However, I do think it's possible to have a cordial and civil debate about this.

But it's also the main reason that I, and so many fans like me (if you can play that card, I can too) LOVE the books SO much more than any fanfiction; because they're one big integrated story instead of a bunch of disconnected ones, and anything can happen now.

That, (except for killing off or ruining main characters) was the reason that I did love the books and prefer them more than most fanfiction as well.

Steve Roby wrote:

The books didn't split up the crews. The TV series finale "What You Leave Behind" split up the DS9 crew. The movie Nemesis split up the TNG crew. The series finale "Endgame" shattered the status quo for the Voyager crew, which keeps the books from doing the same old thing. You can't honestly blame the books' editors and writers for this. The whole reason for the relaunches was to deal with the big changes made on TV and in the movies

You're right about this. Especially "Fury", "Endgame", "What You Leave Behind" and "Nemesis" did split up the crews and in some cases damaged the characters and created certain problems as well.

But there are many problems which could have been solved by clever writing. To kill off Janeway and state her promotion to admiral as one of the reasons which have made the character unusable in future stories is to take a too easy way out.

 

[DimesDan]

For which ever reason it occurred, Janeway got assimilated by the Borg and then in one last push of her personality through that of the Borg Queen, she sacrificed herself to save Seven and the Federation as a whole and then "evolved" to a higher state of being and possibly died. Now she's not likely to come back post Before Dishonour, but she might if there is more than "I'm going to bring Kathy back just because I can" story pitched to TPTB at Pocket, there is also the possibility of stories set in Voyager's journey back to the Federation. It's just, well, not happened just yet and it might never will, but then again, it still might.

All she has to do is click her heels in her ruby slippers three times and say "there's no place like home" and poof! the reset button is turned on.

Kevin

I was thinking more along the lines of Dan Jackson's (multiple) returns from the nether in Stargate, although not so sure about the nakedness part though.

 

[Jaron]

I though the writers sold the reset button at a garage sale.

The beauty of the reset button is that when it gets pressed, they get it back.

 

[Ktrek]

I'd like to propose that in order for the books to stay true to the TV series then Janeway is really not dead. Yes...you heard me right. Now someone will say of course she is because she was killed in Before Dishonor and that is essentially what this whole debate has been about right? I know she appears to be dead in the books, and Pocket has even said they do not have plans to bring her back any time soon, but if she forever and truly remains dead she could not have appeared on the TV show as the much older future Admiral Janeway in the episode Endgame. So for all you Janeway fans who are concerned that Janeway is gone for good do not despair. Somehow Pocket will have to bring her back to fulfill one of her future missions.

Kevin

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ Tell that to SkunkBoy Data, Android of the Future.

^ Tell that to the 3-nacelled Enterprise.


(And yes, I know that those are "Q-llusions," but still.... )

 

[JoeZhang]

I'd like to propose that in order for the books to stay true to the TV series then Janeway is really not dead. Yes...you heard me right. Now someone will say of course she is because she was killed in Before Dishonor and that is essentially what this whole debate has been about right? I know she appears to be dead in the books, and Pocket has even said they do not have plans to bring her back any time soon, but if she forever and truly remains dead she could not have appeared on the TV show as the much older future Admiral Janeway in the episode Endgame. So for all you Janeway fans who are concerned that Janeway is gone for good do not despair. Somehow Pocket will have to bring her back to fulfill one of her future missions.

Kevin

But that Janeway doesn't actually need to exist and indeed, her changing the course of history negates her existence - because if Voyager gets home earlier, why does she need to go back into time? She needs to *some* timeline but not *this* timeline.