Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST?

[Thrawn]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

Speaking for myself, I like big, long, extremely involved stories that move and change and make everyone grow. I love Joss Whedon's shows because the characters are never in the same place from one season to the next, I loved Babylon 5's 5-year-long preplanned story arcs, I loved DS9's huge multilayered Dominion War stories, etc etc. There really isn't much appeal at all for me, with a few rare exceptions, in reading a book where I know things will be the same at the end as they were at the beginning. Characters growing, changing, or even dying is fundamental to my enjoyment of the series.

And I think you're underselling the curiosity factor of just, quite simply, "what happens NEXT?" I mean, if they just published standalones during the series, people would be so totally pissed off that they weren't exploring further! I still see the first two VOY relaunch books being sold in bookstores, long LONG after they were published, and I think it has to be because they sell well. (Yes, it's a theory, I don't have supporting evidence beyond that, I know, I know.) I mean, after Voyager ends, my first instinct would be to say "well... but what happens after they get home?" After Nemesis, "...huh, I wonder how Riker WOULD do commanding his own ship?", etc etc.

Maybe they should do more in-show standalones than they do, I don't know, but I can tell you for sure that Troublesome Minds is quite certainly the book I'm looking forward to least this year. I want to know what happens next! (And for the record, there have been quite a few; they seem to pick only the standalone ideas that would really add something to the show as a whole, like Hollow Men and String Theory, and all the short story anthologies.)

I mean, I think in order to argue that the books should all take place during the series, you have to treat them as lesser than the shows. Certainly no one would expect a TV show, after doing something like having a main character go off and command a new ship, spend the entire next season just writing episodes that happened before that event! The TV shows are done; and so now it's up to the books to write what happens next. And I think they're doing an outstanding job, and not just that, but the original book characters stand up to the TV characters every step of the way.

My interest in Star Trek is in good stories, whatever that might mean, not in only seeing my favorite characters triumph over and over again in an endless series of foregone conclusions. And I think they've hit a fantastic balance of developing the TV show characters alongside the new novel regulars, except for maybe Geordi.

 

[donners22]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

Not to mention a couple of books that were the most tedious, sledgehammer Iraq war parallel I could imagine. They made "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" look subtle.

We did have that in TV-canon with the whole Xindi-arc as well... so it gets a little tiresome, indeed.

The TV-canon was never about Starfleet in a ground war against insurgents in an occupied place with two feuding castes. There's inspiration from real-life events, and there's sledgehammer copies which create a book which doesn't feel like Star Trek at all.

What's the worth of a story where there is no character advancement or development at all?

The experience of the tale. I do not find many Trek episodes with extensive character development. In almost all cases, their events were never mentioned again. That does not mean that the 40-odd minutes of watching an entertaining episode were wasted.

 

[Claudia]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

@ Thrawn,

I agree with you on the curiosity-factor - guess why I bought the first Titan-books, after all... And guess why I ordered "A Singular Destiny" and will be ordering at least the next Titan/TNG/VOY books? *g*

Again I don't have the sales numbers, but I don't think Trek books that were set during the canon-run of the shows did particularly poorly - I mean there was a time when 2 books/month were published, and I don't think that was for fun but because they sold well.

I said before, it depends on what you expect of TrekLit. I think media-tie ins necessarily depend on the material they're based on (which doesn't make them "lesser" than the shows IMO but that's just the way it is) - and they should IMO remain at least related to that material, and not just in name. Of course, I like to read good stories, and I like character development - no doubt about that. But that's not the sole reason why I'd pick up a Trek-book rather than an original SF-novel. I guess, that's the difference between us: I don't particularly care about reading of new characters, I want to read about the old and known ones. If I want to read about brand new characters I won't buy a ST-book but an original one.

I love story arcs as well - and B5'll always hold a special place in my heart - but I'm not opposed to read stories even though I know that at the end the protagonists would still be alive, especially with media-tie ins. I understand that the ATT-series shed light on some of the developments between INS and NEM - but why aren't there more books that show the aftereffects of some episodes (as Metamorphosis did with Measure of a Man f.e.)? There has to be room for introspective stories set with canon where it's further explained how a character ticks than was shown in the series...

I guess I just don't think that there are no stories left to tell within the canon time-frame, no characters left to explore. Not everything has to be explained, has to happen *after* the final curtain has fallen...

Not to mention a couple of books that were the most tedious, sledgehammer Iraq war parallel I could imagine. They made "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" look subtle.

We did have that in TV-canon with the whole Xindi-arc as well... so it gets a little tiresome, indeed.

The TV-canon was never about Starfleet in a ground war against insurgents in an occupied place with two feuding castes. There's inspiration from real-life events, and there's sledgehammer copies which create a book which doesn't feel like Star Trek at all.

No, no ground war - but the same rhetoric that made watching the news every day quite a chore for a long time.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

And again, Claudia, I see your point, and so did they - they did publish a set of short stories that took place across the lifetime of each series explicitly to address that kind of thing (sequels to specific episodes that needed them, missed opportunities, etc), and those anthologies are fascinating reads, for the most part.

But really, it's never a question of "are there stories left to be told", because that's always true. If they were only allowed to write stories that took place within the series, then they would, and they'd be fine. The question is what stories are most challenging, interesting, vital, true to Star Trek, etc etc etc. And that's obviously a matter of opinion, but I think it's hard to argue that continuing chronologically past what we see is a bad idea.

And for the record, Janeway's death is the only case of any major character in the series being removed from the stories that took place after that series; I think it's a bit disingenuous to say "tie-in novels need to be at least related to what happens on screen" when every single development in the books that has driven characters apart or away was mandated on screen save that specific one! Riker and Troi started their own ship, in Nemesis, so in order to answer "what happens next?" they had to create a whole ship of new characters. Data died, so he stays dead. Etc.

They even brought Trip BACK, because they felt the story of his death wasn't good enough, so there has been just as much movement towards returning to the status quo as there has been away from it.

Aside from lame reset-button stories that took all the obvious development seen on screen and went backwards on it (Riker's ship dies, he's back to the Enterprise! Data's alive! Sisko's back...and in charge of the station again! Voyager gets stranded in the Andromeda galaxy! etc) I don't think there is any way for them to continue forwards with the story while keeping the crews together. Onscreen, they showed the crews separating.

Again, the one exception to that is Voyager, with Janeway's death. But again, onscreen, she was an Admiral already, so she wasn't going to be commanding the ship anymore, and it's silly to expect every single main character to want to both stay in Starfleet and go back to the same ship again anyway. I don't want to get into another debate about Janeway's death, so let's leave that out of it, as that's being discussed elsewhere. Aside from that, are there any creative decisions you really have a problem with in this regard? (That is, splitting the crews up, too many original characters, not being good tie-ins, etc)

 

[philbob]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

The west wing trek and titan was a good dont know about the otehrs

 

[Nardpuncher]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

And I promise, if "OMG not ANOTHER Borg story" is your only reason for avoiding Destiny, that you really really need to get over that and give it a shot. The heart and soul of the story is another tale that only intersects with the Borg invasion at the end, and that story is perhaps the greatest thing TrekLit has produced in many years. I cannot recommend it highly enough, and I'd say that to pretty much anyone without hesitation.

I have heard others praising the trilogy too. But like I said, I'm still on the fence so there is a good change I just might read them someday.

I thought the trilogy was pretty good, and I was very happy to be done with the Borg...but my feeling is that we didn't even need a book to eradicate them. The writers could have jut agreed not to ever use them again with a handshake to seal it!

 

[Sci]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

I thought the trilogy was pretty good, and I was very happy to be done with the Borg...but my feeling is that we didn't even need a book to eradicate them. The writers could have jut agreed not to ever use them again with a handshake to seal it!

I don't think so. As it stands, having the Borg around made them this eternally dangling thread, and then they went and revived them in Resistance and Before Dishonor. Seems to me that the Borg needed to be dealt with once and for all. Elsewise they would have just been this theoretical super-threat that was always out there but never pouncing, and every victory over them would have undermined the premise of the Borg more and more and more.

As for A Time to Heal:

While it's fair to say that Min Zife is George W. Bush and Koll Azernal is Dick Cheney, I think it's important to keep in mind that Mack depicts the assassinations of Zife and Azernal as bad things. It's not a fantasy come true when Zife dies. It's a horrible development.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

As for A Time to Heal:

While it's fair to say that Min Zife is George W. Bush and Koll Azernal is Dick Cheney, I think it's important to keep in mind that Mack depicts the assassinations of Zife and Azernal as bad things. It's not a fantasy come true when Zife dies. It's a horrible development.

Are you sure? It sure seemed to me that they were setting it up to where the reader would WANT somebody to off Zife and Azernal even if there's some obligatory rhetoric about how "awful" it is. The condemnation never felt strong enough, but more like it was in there because it "had" to be. I would've been fine with Zife and Azernal getting walloped in a landslide election--even with a criminal investigation a la Watergate and like some people are currently talking about with the Bush administration (and given that we SAW the Zife administration commit crimes, I could have accepted it even though the politics might've still grated some). Or if they had to go the assassination route, I would've liked to have seen MUCH more uproar about it in the Federation, much more of an idea that such conduct is NOT excusable, no matter how severe the disagreement. I mean, these people supposedly don't even support the death penalty when a criminal is tried and found guilty!

And to me...combined with some of the shall we say, overly free talk that went on during the Bush administration about such things (I even seem to recall an indie film that depicted the deed actually occurring and that being passed off as just an innocent, hypothetical "what-if" scenario), it just struck a VERY wrong chord with me.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

Well, in Articles Of The Federation, Ross is forced to resign, so there is some fallout from it. It doesn't just go away.

But yeah, I see your point.

 

[Claudia]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

And again, Claudia, I see your point, and so did they - they did publish a set of short stories that took place across the lifetime of each series explicitly to address that kind of thing (sequels to specific episodes that needed them, missed opportunities, etc), and those anthologies are fascinating reads, for the most part.

Again something I must have missed out on... What anthologies are you specifically refering to? (esp. regarding TNG and TOS).

And for the record, Janeway's death is the only case of any major character in the series being removed from the stories that took place after that series; I think it's a bit disingenuous to say "tie-in novels need to be at least related to what happens on screen" when every single development in the books that has driven characters apart or away was mandated on screen save that specific one! Riker and Troi started their own ship, in Nemesis, so in order to answer "what happens next?" they had to create a whole ship of new characters. Data died, so he stays dead. Etc.

Oh, I've no problem with killing off Janeway - not at all. I would have wished it happened some time during the run of VOY, though... (the earlier, the better. )

Related to in the sense of the spirit of ST. Right now, it's more about conflict, war, action - but little about the introspective stories that made ST for me so special. Of course, it's still based on on screen-ST, I'm not denying that. But based on and actually being ST are 2 different things IMO. (Mind you, I'm exaggerating a bit here for the sake of the argument.)

They even brought Trip BACK, because they felt the story of his death wasn't good enough, so there has been just as much movement towards returning to the status quo as there has been away from it.

Oh, oh - let's not go there... that's the point in case for how canon is bent towards the editors' liking...

Aside from lame reset-button stories that took all the obvious development seen on screen and went backwards on it (Riker's ship dies, he's back to the Enterprise! Data's alive! Sisko's back...and in charge of the station again! Voyager gets stranded in the Andromeda galaxy! etc) I don't think there is any way for them to continue forwards with the story while keeping the crews together. Onscreen, they showed the crews separating.

I don't disagree on that - I obviously wouldn't wish for Riker to return to Enterprise, and I really didn't enjoy that canon-Trek thought it necessary to bring back Worf... I mean what kind of backward-character-development was that? (the same applies to Data and his emotion chip...)...

I'd simply love to read an "original" TNG-novel every now and then in between all those relaunch books. It's all about tastes and balance.

Aside from that, are there any creative decisions you really have a problem with in this regard? (That is, splitting the crews up, too many original characters, not being good tie-ins, etc)

Save for the already mentioned resurrection of Trip and/or making Ezri a captain? And focusing too much on war and too little on exploration and peaceful coexistence? And yes, with the exception of Vaughn and to a lesser extent Keru (which first showed up during my TrekLit addiction 2000/2001 IIRC), I don't feel a connection to any of the new characters, I'm sorry to say. But perhaps that's also due to the mass of new characters that were introduced practically simultaneously with the TNG-relaunch and Titan.

While it's fair to say that Min Zife is George W. Bush and Koll Azernal is Dick Cheney, I think it's important to keep in mind that Mack depicts the assassinations of Zife and Azernal as bad things. It's not a fantasy come true when Zife dies. It's a horrible development.

I thought Zife survived? At least that was what I gathered from AotF...

 

[DaveR]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

Not to mention a couple of books that were the most tedious, sledgehammer Iraq war parallel I could imagine. They made "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" look subtle.

THANK YOU. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who saw it! I did feel like I was being whacked over the head with it. Like Star Trek fans can't have diverse opinions...

I, on the other hand, greatly enjoyed the book despite that, and in fact was able to ignore the sledgehammer. Yeah, I had to dance a bit so it couldn't connnect, but I was able to get past the source material to enjoy the novel on its own terms. And I thought it was wonderful.

Dave

 

[Sci]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

As for A Time to Heal:
While it's fair to say that Min Zife is George W. Bush and Koll Azernal is Dick Cheney, I think it's important to keep in mind that Mack depicts the assassinations of Zife and Azernal as bad things. It's not a fantasy come true when Zife dies. It's a horrible development.

Are you sure? It sure seemed to me that they were setting it up to where the reader would WANT somebody to off Zife and Azernal even if there's some obligatory rhetoric about how "awful" it is.

I think you're imagining things. For one thing, Section 31 was consistently portrayed as being the bad guys. I mean, they were ready to destroy the entire planet of Tezwa -- commit genocide, and also killing numerous Starfleet officers -- if the Enterprise failed to "conquer" Tezwa in time to stop the Klingons from landing.

Further, if you read that chapter again, you'll notice that Nechayev and Nakamura are shocked when the Section 31 agents enter and they realize who they are. This, combined with Ross's willingness to take the fall for their assassination and desire to prevent Bacco from learning about 31 to protect her from being assassinated herself (as established in his internal monologue in Articles of the Federation), strongly implies that Section 31 interceded to have Zife killed.

Then, of course, there's Azernals internal monologue, which paints a very menacing portrait of Section 31 that's utterly at odds with how even the Starfleet officers' decision to force Zife out of office is portrayed. Picard and Jellico expressed their doubts about the morality of forcing him out of office, but the narrative made it clear that their intention was, at least, just and born not out of a sinister nature.

The narrative of the Thirty-One agents who appear, however, paints a very different picture of that organization.

From Chapter 30 of A Time to Heal:
The Bolian chief executive nodded. Judging from the looks on everyone else's faces, Zife was the only person in the group who didn't know who the officers in black really were, or that after his resignation speech no one would see him, Azernal, or Quafina ever again.

This is the way it has to be, Azernal told himself. If we're to be patriots, we have to pay the price. Starfleet will finish our work and keep our secrets. All we have to do is die.

The Zakdorn's broad, rounded shoulders slumped in defeat as they stepped out of the war room and proceeded down the eerily deserted corridor toward the president's office.

<SNIP>

The disgraced trio strode past one empty office after another. Their steps snapped crisply on the polished floors; the footfalls of their escorts were ominously silent.

Zife, at long last, adopted a truly presidential bearing as he marched toward the end of his career. He carried himself with the mien of a Roman senator, proud and resolute in expression.

Azernal said nothing as he walked beside his president, prepared to meet his fate at the merciless hands of Section 31.

Mack goes out of his way to ascribe negative adjectives to anything related to the Section 31 agents. Even their footsteps are described in ominous terms.

And to me...combined with some of the shall we say, overly free talk that went on during the Bush administration about such things

I would suggest that it's important not to assume that one guy agrees with such behavior just because he agrees that Bush was a bad president.

(I even seem to recall an indie film that depicted the deed actually occurring and that being passed off as just an innocent, hypothetical "what-if" scenario),

I saw that film, and, no, it was not an advocation of Bush's assassination. It was a well-written, thoughtful "what-if?" type story about what an assassination of Bush might have caused in American politics. It wasn't advocating it -- though it is fair to say that its creators are obviously not fans of Bush, either.

it just struck a VERY wrong chord with me.

Well, it's supposed to strike a wrong chord with you. Zife's assassination is supposed to be an example of an extreme and unjust over-reaction.

ETA: Since Nerys Ghemor added to the first post, I must add as well.

Or if they had to go the assassination route, I would've liked to have seen MUCH more uproar about it in the Federation, much more of an idea that such conduct is NOT excusable, no matter how severe the disagreement. I mean, these people supposedly don't even support the death penalty when a criminal is tried and found guilty!

Remember, the Federation at large doesn't know Zife was assassinated. Really, my only problem with Zife's assassination, from a plot stand-point, was that I wish AotF had established that a fake Zife (surgically altered S31 agent or hologram) is used by Section 31 to continue the lie that he's still alive.

But I think the narrative does a fine enough job making it clear that Section 31's actions are horrible. They're described in far more explicitly awful terms than even Azernal, who is at least portrayed as always wanting to preserve the Federation (if his own skin, as well). And they're certainly portrayed in far less sympathetic terms than Zife, who is depicted as a man who allowed fear and weakness of character to seduce him rather than as someone with overtly malicious motivations.

While it's fair to say that Min Zife is George W. Bush and Koll Azernal is Dick Cheney, I think it's important to keep in mind that Mack depicts the assassinations of Zife and Azernal as bad things. It's not a fantasy come true when Zife dies. It's a horrible development.

I thought Zife survived? At least that was what I gathered from AotF...

Zife's assassination at the hands of Section 31 took place in secret. So far as the galaxy at large knows, he's still alive. (Though of course, Section 31 could take advantage of the huge death toll from the recent Borg invasion and falsify his death to be at the hands of the Borg.)

But if you recall the big confrontation between Bacco and Admiral Ross towards the end, a journalist discovers that he was assassinated from the Orion Syndicate and informs Bacco, but the Orion Syndicate, that journalist, and Bacco are under the impression that Ross did it himself. Ross takes the fall and lets her keep thinking that so that she doesn't discover Section 31 or its role in Zife's assassination, for fear that she'd be killed, too.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

The anthologies I mentioned were:
Constellations - TOS
The Sky's The Limit - TNG
Prophecy & Change - DS9
Distant Shores - VOY

The TOS one is not concerned with specific episode sequels and such, since there had been so many books to do that, but they're all new stories within the 5-year mission and do cover some interesting facets we never got to see (Sulu / Scotty and how they felt when in command, etc). The other three are devoted pretty explicitly to missed opportunities, stories left untold, and fallout from specific episodes, as well as the occasional totally standalone story.

Worf was brought back because Nemesis had him serving on the ship again; Data's emotion chip was removed again because of how he was portrayed in that movie - emotionless. Again, canon-mandated changes, albeit with some interpretation attached.

Ezri is a captain 4 years in the future of "now" in the DS9 relaunch; she will be (or at least could be) a participant in that series for a really long time. All the DS9 relaunch books so far have covered less than a year of in-universe time; they could be publishing for 30 years without Ezri leaving the series at that rate!

Also, Titan has been almost entirely about exploration and learning new things after its (again canon-mandated) first book about Romulus. I agree that there maybe should be more of that sort of thing, but there's at least one series that's exploring that goal pretty explicitly. I also think the DS9 relaunch has been fantastic about balancing that sort of thing, but they've been in this mirror universe arc for a really long time due to unforseen and inevitable publishing delays. I really think, once The Soul Key is over, the balance in that series will be restored.

And finally, I don't disagree that the occasional standalone TNG book would be a good idea. Like you said, balance, and maybe they could compensate a bit more in that direction. But the in-series time hasn't been quite as ignored as you think. I bet you'd enjoy those anthologies a lot.


Edit: I'd also recommend The Buried Age, if you haven't read that; it doesn't take place within the series, but covers Picard's time between Stargazer and Enterprise. It's a brilliant story, and shows him meeting Yar, Geordi, Troi, and Data for the first time, as well as cleaning up a bunch of other holes in the Trek universe and giving Picard a truly beautiful character arc that makes 1st season TNG make sooooo much more sense. It's also a story very much about science, the unknown, and character introspection.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

Are you sure? It sure seemed to me that they were setting it up to where the reader would WANT somebody to off Zife and Azernal even if there's some obligatory rhetoric about how "awful" it is.

Anyone who would read a Trek novel and want a ruthless, extralegal black-ops organization to assassinate anyone has completely and utterly missed the point of Star Trek.

 

[Garrovick]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

I intensly dislike the direction the post Nemeis and TV series books have gone.

I've only read four or five books since the movie.

Now, that will change when they make KRAD the Editor-in-Chief.

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

It's a trade-off, I think, Claudia. At this point, all the Trek novels are really written to add different facets to a larger unified whole, and that means that those who follow any particular series are probably more likely to follow the others, increasing brand loyalty across all the series and driving up sales numbers in that regard.

But like you said, it does make them less accessible for newcomers, and that probably drives down sales. But then if all they did was publish standalones that were easy to jump into, people wouldn't buy a TNG book and think "man, this whole universe is fascinating nowadays, I should really get Articles Of The Federation and A Singular Destiny and maybe try out the recent Voyager books" either. I personally bought KRAD's Gorkon series mostly just so I could make sure I understood any Klingon Empire plots in Destiny; I wouldn't have otherwise. (And I'm glad I did!)

I figure those in charge, if they're pursuing this avenue, are probably fairly convinced that it's a profitable one. They might be going for artistic integrity above that, and it might be backfiring, I have admittedly no evidence on this point at all. But as a gut instinct, I find it hard to believe that they'd deliberately pursue an avenue they knew would be less successful.

And in any case, there is still the occasional standalone; a TOS standalone, Troublesome Minds, will hit in June this year for instance.

I have to say that I as a reader have fallen into this very pattern of Brand Loyalty you mention above.

I started out reading the Large Hard Cover Star Trek Fiction (At Bargain Prices), decided to read about 2 of the TNG Paperbacks (Rouge Saucer & Dragon's Honor, I think) and then didn't pick anything else up until DS9R's Avatar.

Flash-forward to today and I've branched off from DS9 into TOS, TNG, SCE, TTN, NF, ENT, Klingon Empire, & Vanguard... Plus whatever standalones hit my Fancy. I'm also going to try out Full Circle and see how that goes. Looks interesting. Maybe I'll get into VOY as well.

The Interconectivity of the Universe and the idea of adding to a larger whole, than seperate stories in a sometimes-shared universe is what really brought me to the table in terms of liking and enjoying Trek Lit.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

Technobuilder, I definitely have a similar story; for me it was New Frontier and Gateways, which lead to Avatar, and then Section 31 and then New Earth...having a big crossover series (Gateways) in which half of the books were in ongoing/original book series was a total shock to me, and I had to catch up.

Ever since, I've expanded more and more and more until I'm reading just about everything that's at all connected to everything else, even though I still leave most of the standalones behind. It's so cool, to me, reading Kobayashi Maru right before Destiny, that we have 200 years of political history of all of these galactic superpowers. What a great tale the Klingon/Romulan/Federation political maneuvering over 200 years has produced! (Major points to The Lost Era, here, too.) The Trek universe really does feel like one giant 700-some episode, 300-some novel story these days. It's staggeringly cool.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

The thing is for me...the fact that even Picard and Jellico were in on it--however high and mighty their motivations may have seemed...was inexcusable. Shades of grey are very nice sometimes, but there are certain things about which there should be NO ambiguity. Assassinations are one of them.

Maybe blowing the lid off the whole scandal and letting the Federation's public see what happened, letting the outrage build, would've been a way to accomplish that (though with some degree of secrecy as to who Section 31 is, of course, to leave them in play for later plots).

I am a firm believer that regardless of how much someone screws up in office in a true democratic society, you respect the office and the proper procedure for removing that person from office. There are impeachment proceedings for that with the possibility of a criminal trial afterwards if their acts were serious enough to warrant it.

And frankly...I believe that it is very, VERY disrespectful of both the office of the president as well as common decency to do that sort of what-if'ing about a real person's death. We don't even allow whimsical real-actor scenarios in the fanfic forum around here. There was no excuse for that film whatsoever. I could see MAYBE exploring a question like that after Bush's lifetime is over (by NATURAL means, thank you very much) but not while the man is still living and especially not while he was still in office.

 

[Steve Roby]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

Not to go off on a tangent, but I believe that movie was a British production. The UK is the country that produced the singer Morrissey, who wrote a song about former British PM Margaret Thatcher with the following lyrics:

The kind people have a wonderful dream
Margaret on the guillotine
'Cause people like you make me feel so tired
When will you die?

Something of an extreme example, perhaps, but it's a song by a singer who's had a lot of mainstream commercial success in the UK.

There was no excuse for that film whatsoever.

Where in your country's constitution or Bill of Rights are acceptable "excuses" for free expression laid out?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST

The Bill of Rights doesn't mean that if somebody makes an ass out of themselves, that others can't tell them to shut up.