I agree, and did the same.
Let's Settle this once and for all Intrepid Vs Galaxy
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I agree, and did the same.
That said, I voted "Galaxy" because I like it better and if I wrote the scene it would win.
This is exactly why polls like this have little to no actual merit and why many people ignore the final outcome.
No objective reasoning is given in several responses aside from the following: 'it's big and I like it' (along with variations on the same notion).
No.
The reasons polls like this have little to no actual merit is because there is no objective reality to reference in taking a position.
Battles in "Star Trek" come out the way the writers want them to. That is the only reality with regard to this topic. Any "fact" you care to cite about one ship or another can and will be circumvented or elaborated upon or revised by the storyteller as necessary in order to achieve the desired outcome - and since none of it is real, that's entirely fair.
The scene in TWOK where Kirk "outsmarts" Khan during their first combat encounter is extraordinarily if not universally popular - and it all turns upon a gimmick about "how things work on a starship" that didn't exist until the writer needed it.
Actually I just thought of a good point, people keep saying "size doesnt matter" ok, look at the defiant, not much smaller than Voyager, yet it's completley stripped out, basically it's a hollow shell with 80% of its space dedicated to tactical systems, where as Voyager is "luxury liner" type of ship, so where excactly are these super weapons that are going to blast the galaxy class out of the skies stored?
Voyager is not a luxury liner.
The Galaxy class holds that title (an equivalent of a flying hotel if I recall some people's analogy
) if anything given it's larger facilities for creature comforts and overall larger capacity of individuals it can hold (not to mention various labs, schools, and a bigger compliment of holodecks).
The Intrepid being a smaller ship has fewer creature comforts and less space for having people on board ... we've seen people doubling up in quarters as well (it's only logical a smaller ship would compromise on these aspects in order to have offensive/defensive systems equivalent of a much larger ship).
The Defiant had to essentially eliminate ALL creature comforts (apart from replicators of course) in order to fit all of it's advanced tactical systems on-board.
Larger ships such as the Intrepid would be able to retain certain creature comforts and still be powerful as larger vessels.
Also, at no point did I mention the Intrepid would easily blast off the Galaxy class.
It would likely end in an even match, or the victory would go to a more experienced/better crew.
The Galaxy class holds that title (an equivalent of a flying hotel if I recall some people's analogy
) if anything given it's larger facilities for creature comforts and overall larger capacity of individuals it can hold (not to mention various labs, schools, and a bigger compliment of holodecks).The Intrepid being a smaller ship has fewer creature comforts and less space for having people on board ... we've seen people doubling up in quarters as well (it's only logical a smaller ship would compromise on these aspects in order to have offensive/defensive systems equivalent of a much larger ship).
The Defiant had to essentially eliminate ALL creature comforts (apart from replicators of course) in order to fit all of it's advanced tactical systems on-board.
Larger ships such as the Intrepid would be able to retain certain creature comforts and still be powerful as larger vessels.
Also, at no point did I mention the Intrepid would easily blast off the Galaxy class.
It would likely end in an even match, or the victory would go to a more experienced/better crew.
I agree with Starship Polaris. There was NEVER much thought given to establishing how powerful the hero ship was beyond the episode of the week. In the hands of writer #1 the Enterprise-D would be disabled by two Klingon Birds of Prey, in the hands of writer #2 the D would utterly trash four Birds of Prey. There's just so much inconsistency that it is almost impossible to predict the outcome of a battle based on onscreen evidence.
Both the Enterprise-D and Voyager were shown as ridiculously weak and ridiculously powerful during their respective runs on tv.
I find the argument that the Intrepid class is newer and therefore more powerful rubbish. Galaxy class ships were in use for decades after TNG ended (see VOY's own Timeless), and it is logical to assume they were given weapons upgrades to match the newer classes of ships.
Both the Enterprise-D and Voyager were shown as ridiculously weak and ridiculously powerful during their respective runs on tv.
I find the argument that the Intrepid class is newer and therefore more powerful rubbish. Galaxy class ships were in use for decades after TNG ended (see VOY's own Timeless), and it is logical to assume they were given weapons upgrades to match the newer classes of ships.
So would the Intrepids (who were mentioned by the designers of the ship and producers of the show in interviews it's supposed to have identical shields/weapons as the Galaxy class), therefore equaling things out in the long run.
I never stated the Intrepid would be superior to the Galaxy.
An even match in terms of weapons and shields yes, so the battle can go either way and would be determined more on the premise of which ship has a better/experienced crew/tactics.
I know the on-screen evidence contradicts itself on more than one occasion, but at the same time, why did SF then decide to create smaller (yet obviously very powerful) ships?
The Defiant was doing things larger ships could ... sometimes even better (combat specific) than Galaxy classes.
The Prometheus (whose technical schematics readout were impressive and on par with the Sovereign) was able to disable a Nebula class ship with only several hits in MVAM (at warp speed no less) while being a smaller ship by comparison (not to mention it quickly finished off a Romulan Warbird with 4 to 5 phaser hits).
Why would 2 Defiants and 1 Akira engage 3 Romulan Warbirds to begin with if they were much smaller and by some people's analogies much weaker?
It is logical to theorize that smaller ships such as the Intrepid could be just as powerful as the Galaxy class ships given the fact they compromise on creature comforts and luxuries (not to mention the amount of people smaller ships can house) compared to larger vessels.
The Defiant had to eliminate all of the creature comforts to fit advanced/powerful engines/weapons on-board.
The Prometheus was almost equal in size to the Intrepid yet very powerful, and was skimping out on creature comforts as well (although it did retain some of them ... but likely in lesser amount compared to Voyager because the Prometheus is vessel for conducting deep-space tactical missions).
Just because a ship is more advanced doesn't necessarily make it more tactically powerful. I sincerely doubt the Saber, Steamrunner, and Norway class is more powerful than the older Galaxy class. Additionally, I think it could be inferred that the Nova class is newer than the Intrepid due to the former's design similarities to the Sovereign, but we know the Intrepid's at least faster, and potentially more powerful.
And once again, the USS Lakota proves that upgrades can make sure a much older ship gives younger ships a run for their money.
And once again, the USS Lakota proves that upgrades can make sure a much older ship gives younger ships a run for their money.
If on-screen references are to be taken into consideration, the Nova class could very well be an older design or at the very least equally old compared to the Intrepid.
The Equinox was in the DQ for some time before Voyager got there ... ergo it was in service longer. Of course this is only evident for Ransom's ship, not the first Nova class ship (probably named U.S.S. Nova ... after the class itself as SF usually does).
The Equinox (without it's enhanced drive working) is only capable of Warp 6, and Voyager was tactically superior vessel (per Janeway herself ... although I was having issues with her decision to abandon the Equinox and focus the efforts on Voyager because despite the smaller ship being tactically inferior, it was still a very good asset which would be interesting to have later in the show - they certainly dropped the ball there in my opinion).
As for the Lakota ...
I definitely agree that upgrades can make sure a much older ship gives younger ships 'a run for their money' ... but the Galaxy class is hardly a 'much older ship' to begin with, and it's weapons/shields likely underwent only a minor re-fit prior to the war so they would be able to inflict damage on Dominion ships properly and that shields don't let their weapons through anymore.
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The Equinox is older than Voyager, sure. But there's still the USS Intrepid, which implies that the prototype of the Intrepid class exists and is older than Voyager. I wouldn't be surprised, additionally, if more time on the drawing board was spent on the Intrepid class than the Nova, considering the sheer amount of capabilities Voyager had over the Equinox. It's not like the Sovereign was built in a day
I don't get what your point is here. I'm saying that at the end of the day, upgrades can level or partially even the playing field, that's all. So what if the Galaxy gets a minor or major upgrade? It's still an upgrade of some sort.
Mmm, you're just starting to nit pick posts for the heck of it.
I voted for the Galaxy.
The Intrepid class most likely could fly circles around a Galaxy at impulse speed and outrun her at Maximum warp.
The Galaxy is very maneuverable for a ship of her size - but as maneuverable as an Intrepid, however she has more weapons. She has more phaser strips, and burst fire torpedo launchers as well as a larger complement of torpedoes. She was made to slug it out.
An intrepid could avoid a good number of shots from a Galaxy, but with her number of phasers and greater number torpedoes and the ability to fire up to 10 at a time from each launcher gives the Galaxy the edge.
The Intrepid class most likely could fly circles around a Galaxy at impulse speed and outrun her at Maximum warp.
The Galaxy is very maneuverable for a ship of her size - but as maneuverable as an Intrepid, however she has more weapons. She has more phaser strips, and burst fire torpedo launchers as well as a larger complement of torpedoes. She was made to slug it out.
An intrepid could avoid a good number of shots from a Galaxy, but with her number of phasers and greater number torpedoes and the ability to fire up to 10 at a time from each launcher gives the Galaxy the edge.
Galaxy class,
Larger vessel, more Phaser strips, Bigger Engines more than likely a lot more torpedos than the Intrepid (bigger storage :P).
The Galaxy class updated to 2376 just out resources in the long the faster smaller class. More resources to take the damage and maintain shields and to deliever a punishing force back.
Galaxy wins.
Larger vessel, more Phaser strips, Bigger Engines more than likely a lot more torpedos than the Intrepid (bigger storage :P).
The Galaxy class updated to 2376 just out resources in the long the faster smaller class. More resources to take the damage and maintain shields and to deliever a punishing force back.
Galaxy wins.
Galaxy class: 11 phaser strips (with only the Venture and no others getting 2 more, one on each nacelle top .. on-screen evidence confirms that much); 2 torpedo launchers
Intrepid: 13 phaser strips; 4 torpedo launchers
Of course the number of torpedoes (both ships would have more than enough to punch through each other shields and destroy the opposing vessel) or phasers strips (since on other ships even a lower amount of phaser strips is enough to cover the vessel from all angles) doesn't guarantee a win for either.
Even if the Galaxy has burst fire launchers (abilities which were used practically never), it's quite likely Intrepid has them as well (otherwise torpedo patterns such as Sierra that fire multiple torpedoes that visually look like one would be not doable ... Voyager executed this pattern in 'Basics').
Any upgrades the Galaxy gets, the Intrepid would also get (along with the rest of the fleet) and even things out for the most part.
The Galaxy only has a larger torpedo/crew/storage compliment ... it's size doesn't automatically mean it has superior shields or phasers compared to the Intrepid.
The Galaxy still has all of those creature comforts and luxuries, not to mention has to support a far larger crew compliment (over 1000)
The Intrepid has less creature comforts to worry about and crew (by a factor of about 7) and therefore can crank in more advanced/powerful phaser/shield systems (identical to the ones of the Galaxy class) inside (just like the Defiant is able to house powerful engines/warp core/weapons while eliminating practically all creature comforts).
Intrepid: 13 phaser strips; 4 torpedo launchers
Of course the number of torpedoes (both ships would have more than enough to punch through each other shields and destroy the opposing vessel) or phasers strips (since on other ships even a lower amount of phaser strips is enough to cover the vessel from all angles) doesn't guarantee a win for either.
Even if the Galaxy has burst fire launchers (abilities which were used practically never), it's quite likely Intrepid has them as well (otherwise torpedo patterns such as Sierra that fire multiple torpedoes that visually look like one would be not doable ... Voyager executed this pattern in 'Basics').
Any upgrades the Galaxy gets, the Intrepid would also get (along with the rest of the fleet) and even things out for the most part.
The Galaxy only has a larger torpedo/crew/storage compliment ... it's size doesn't automatically mean it has superior shields or phasers compared to the Intrepid.
The Galaxy still has all of those creature comforts and luxuries, not to mention has to support a far larger crew compliment (over 1000)
The Intrepid has less creature comforts to worry about and crew (by a factor of about 7) and therefore can crank in more advanced/powerful phaser/shield systems (identical to the ones of the Galaxy class) inside (just like the Defiant is able to house powerful engines/warp core/weapons while eliminating practically all creature comforts).
Just a head's up: the Enterprise showed burst fire capabilities in "The Arsenal of Freedom."
As for the Galaxy's creature comforts, the Galaxy has a module configuration for ease of replace specific areas of the ship. You could take out all those science stations and lounges and such and replace them with systems to make the Galaxy more battle ready (ie, adding phaser strips on top of the nacelle, just like the USS Venture in DS9 during the Klingon/Cardassian conflict). Would the Intrepid have that design? I don't know, but not all design elements and technologies are carried over to the next class, ie I kind of doubt the Sovereign has a module configuration or saucer separation, both of which were fairly helpful for the Galaxy, even though the Sovereign whoops the Galaxy three ways from Sunday.
For that matter, I don't see how one could add more phaser strips a la the Venture without juicing up more power, from whatever power source (ie a separate source or increased engine efficiency or whatever possibility), on a Galaxy class.
Tnx for reminding me.
Well, if we take on-screen evidence into consideration, nothing of the modular configuration you propose was suggested (at least not to my knowledge).
Also, even if the Galaxy is capable of that, why wouldn't the Intrepid as well or any of the newer classes that came after it?
It's only logical you would want to improve upgrade capability on newer classes of ships.
I agree that not all design elements would be carried over to the next design ... but at the same time, the Galaxy was also a testbed for new technologies that were used in making ship designs that came after it.
Adding more phaser strips wouldn't necessarily require of the vessel to increase it's power output as it's already large enough. And even if it was, it's likely that the power output would be enhanced just enough so the additional phaser strips can shoot out same power like other phaser arrays.
In any event, the Enterprise was using a new warp core later in TNG, so it's also a possibility that the energy output of that core was enough to mount 2 more strips and improve the energy output for Warp drive to increase velocity (and the SIF fields that keep the ship together).
At least we know the Enterprise's maximum Warp velocity increased later in the show.
There are atleast 3 models of Galaxy Class starship (two variatons are shown on screen). Two of them are represent significant upgrades over the Enterprise. Indeed, if the Odyssey's bridge was any indicator, Starfleet, had already reconsidered the mission parameters of the class.
Secondly, people forget that the Galaxy Class is actually 2 starships in one. The "luxury liner" is largely restricted to the saucer sections (in the MKI). Star drive section was meant to serve as a defacto battle ship. It would have greater power and manuverability once relieved of the burden of the saucer. The problem is that was rarely shown on screen (it should be remembered though that the drive section held its own against a borg cube without suffering much dammage). The realities of 80s/90s TV meant that the Enterprise rarely got to show what it could do.
Secondly, people forget that the Galaxy Class is actually 2 starships in one. The "luxury liner" is largely restricted to the saucer sections (in the MKI). Star drive section was meant to serve as a defacto battle ship. It would have greater power and manuverability once relieved of the burden of the saucer. The problem is that was rarely shown on screen (it should be remembered though that the drive section held its own against a borg cube without suffering much dammage). The realities of 80s/90s TV meant that the Enterprise rarely got to show what it could do.
But so were the Sovereign, Defiant, Intrepid (per Paris's statement) and Prometheus if on-screen evidence is to be taken into consideration, and to our knowledge they don't have battle-bridges (except of course possibly the Prometheus because of MVAM and the Sovereign that was theorized it could separate).
On another note, I fail to see how a presence of a battle-bridge implicates the Galaxy was purely designed for combat, when in fact it's a multi-purpose vessel just like most SF ships with no more emphasis on weapons than on other systems.
It does have a battle-bridge indeed, but the ship also has more phaser banks to fire from when fully connected (and completely same amount of torpedo launchers in both modes) clearly indicating that the battle-bridge is only there as a command center for the star-drive which would remain to fight and allow the saucer with the civilians/non-essential personnel to escape.
At the same time, the star-drive loses some of it's phaser arc coverage in separatation mode and isn't any more powerful than in completely connected mode.
But it becomes more agile and faster, I bet it could even keep up with an Intrepid after getting rid of that saucer
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