Let's Settle this once and for all Intrepid Vs Galaxy
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I know for a fact that Worf would find the Intrepid class an eyesore and fire without even having being given an order to.
'Rubbish'?
On-screen evidence suggests (in more than one instance) otherwise.
Never mind the fact that the Intrepid class was launched 7 to 8 years AFTER the Galaxy class ... designed from the get go with more advanced technology which would also be more effective against the Borg (anti-borg systems were mentioned by Shelby in BoBw to be ready in 14 months time ... Voyager was launched 3 to 4 years after those systems were developed, which only suggests that further enhancements could have ensued).
Let's also blatantly ignore the fact that a Galaxy class star-ship was only able to inflict minor damage to 1 out of 3 Jem'Hadaar bug ships only to be pummeled and destroyed shortly after (granted with it's shields ineffective, but the weapons were working and obviously were not very effective), where a DEFIANT class ship (a measly bug compared to the Galaxy class in terms of size ... designed and made sometime during TNG run and put on ice because the Borg threat was not immenent) was able to easily destroy a Jem'Hadaar bug with a few pulse phaser shots (not forgetting that later on in the show went up against 3 of them single-handledly, and won).
These things 'obviously' didn't happened on-screen and I'm 'clearly' making them up.
I only stated in another thread that it's very possible an Intrepid class would posses same defensive/offensive systems in terms of raw power as a Galaxy class ship.
I never stated it would be able pummel a Galaxy class easily and come out on top.
If anything, the battle between Intrepid and Galaxy classes could end up being an even match or the victory would eventually go to the ship with more experienced/better crew that applies better tactics/strategy.
We saw several examples on Trek which prove that size doesn't really matter to SF with sufficiently advanced technology.
The only thing a Galaxy class would have going for it is the size, which equates to larger capacity for crewmen/materials/torpedoes/creature comforts/luxuries ... none of which guarantee a victory for the bigger ship.
An Intrepid is also faster in terms of warp speed compared to a Galaxy class.
SF would only be smart in making smaller (but equal in power output when shields/weapons are concerned) versions of their large ships in/post TNG era.
It puts lots of power into a small package (Defiant being a great example) while compromising or outright eliminating luxuries/creature comforts compared to ships that are larger in size.
Simple logic and deduction followed by on-screen evidence.
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I like that idea.I've decided to vote for the Galaxy class. Reason being is that before Voyager became practically invincible with the almighty Borg nanoprobes, it was taking a kicking on a fairly regular basis from the Kazon, and even had its hull breached and a boarding party aboard on one occasion. It was also shown a single shot from a Vidiian cruiser could cripple it (Deadlock).
On the other hand, we did see Odyssey get totalled by the Jem'Hadar without really getting off a decent shot.
As the rules said the fight is in 2376, then I assume the Galaxy's weapons are a little more intimidating than shown previously due to the Dominion threat, and so it's bye bye Intrepid
I've decided to vote for the Galaxy class. Reason being is that before Voyager became practically invincible with the almighty Borg nanoprobes, it was taking a kicking on a fairly regular basis from the Kazon, and even had its hull breached and a boarding party aboard on one occasion. It was also shown a single shot from a Vidiian cruiser could cripple it (Deadlock).
On the other hand, we did see Odyssey get totalled by the Jem'Hadar without really getting off a decent shot.
As the rules said the fight is in 2376, then I assume the Galaxy's weapons are a little more intimidating than shown previously due to the Dominion threat, and so it's bye bye Intrepid
But Kazon were always attacking Voyager in numbers to compensate for their technological inferiority ... and still lost on numerous occasions. Voyager suffering damage from multiple less advanced ships firing at it is only logical. It happens almost constantly in Trek to ALL SF ships (and let's not forget that Voyager primarily used it's phasers and not it's already limited supply of torpedoes early on which further put them at a disadvantage ... it is also very questionable if 36 torpedoes is what Voyager can pack at maximum ... likely much more given it's size, but still less compared to a Galaxy class).
Like a pack of wolves going up against 1 prey slowly picking it off.
Even a Galaxy class would not fare any better if it was in Voyager's position (a ship 75 000 LY's from Federation in an already somewhat weaker state from all previous troubles it faced and using torpedoes sparingly only when certain shots were practically guaranteed).
On another note, had it not been for the internal sabotage in episode 'Basics Part I', Voyager would have won against all 4 Kazon carriers (armed to the maximum if I recall correctly).
The only reason Voyager was disabled so quickly in 'Deadlock' by the Vidiians is because half their systems were inoperable (shields and weapons included ... which was a byproduct of being duplicated by the anomaly and both ships draining power from a single source).
Can you really say that a Galaxy class would fare any better under same circumstances?
Think again.
If Galaxy class weapons underwent a re-fit to compensate for any previous deficiencies against the Dominion, it's highly possible same modifications would have been applied on all ships throughout the fleet.
Therefore, under same circumstances, it's again a pretty even match.
Also, it's questionable if the Intrepid class would need those modifications as it already featured anti-Borg systems.
In 'the Search' (before the war), Defiant's shields were keeping Dominion's weapons at bay but still gave in eventually from being pummeled by 3 ships on a constant basis.
The only potential explanation as to why their shields held and weapons had an effect, was because the anti-Borg technology incorporated numerous aspects that already compensate for Dominion's weapons/shield tech.
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Depends on what the writer wants to accomplish. His/hers is the only vote that counts.
That said, I voted "Galaxy" because I like it better and if I wrote the scene it would win.
That said, I voted "Galaxy" because I like it better and if I wrote the scene it would win.
That said, I voted "Galaxy" because I like it better and if I wrote the scene it would win.
This is exactly why polls like this have little to no actual merit and why many people ignore the final outcome.
No objective reasoning is given in several responses aside from the following: 'it's big and I like it' (along with variations on the same notion).
So you give a lengthy explanation to dispute my opinion that the Intrepid class would lose, then say it's a moot point anyway?
As stated, the ships were capable (and incapable) of whatever the writer needed on a per-episode basis. My belief is though, that as the Galaxy class is bigger, it therefore would be able to take more sustained punishment than the smaller Intrepid class - assuming neither has been fitted with ablative armour after the Dominion War.
Also, every time someone sneezed on Voyager, Ops would burst into a shower of sparks, the MSD would start flickering, shields would go down to 47% and decks 6, 11 and 14 would randomly breach. Such melodramatics were much less common when we saw the Enterprise-D going up against a foe... hence why I still think the Galaxy would win.
I might be mistaken, but did the Vidiians actually get a shot off on Voyager except for Deadlock? Maybe the hypothermic charge, was it? was always a one-shot weapon that can cripple a ship in order for a Vidiian cruiser to harvest the crew - similar to the Breen's energy drain weapon.
(By the way... where was it mentioned that anti-Borg technology was incorporated into the Intrepid's design?)
But if we need conclusive proof, I will use the most definitive of all scientific methods: BRIDGE COMMANDER WITH KM1.0 MOD!!!!111. Its knowledge is undeniable!
I said that the final outcome of these polls (as in numbers that favor a specific ship most) is what in the end is essentially not worth of taking into consideration because some people would vote merely on the premise that they 'like' one ship or the other while not taking into account other factors.
If both ships have identical shields and power output of those shields, then a logical conclusion is that both will hold out equally.
Designers of Voyager (people who worked on the show and designed the ship) stated in one of their interviews that it's supposed to have same weapons/shields as a Galaxy class.
Tom Paris stated in one of the episodes that the ship was built for combat, not concert performances.
Size is hardly what matters in these instances if both ships output identical power levels for offensive/defensive systems.
The SIF fields on the Intrepid though would likely be stronger if anything because it can endure faster Warp velocities (9.975) compared to the Galaxy (9.2 ?).
'Also, every time someone sneezed on Voyager, Ops would burst into a shower of sparks, the MSD would start flickering, shields would go down to 47% and decks 6, 11 and 14 would randomly breach. Such melodramatics were much less common when we saw the Enterprise-D going up against a foe... hence why I still think the Galaxy would win.'
Voyager was in a DQ where most races they encountered on a frequent basis wanted them out of their territory or were hostile in general (and were advanced enough to pose a threat to 1 ship).
The Enterprise-D was for the most part within Federation territory, or on the fringes of it conducting detailed scans/exploration of areas that were known before and not really explored in detail. It also went up against technologically inferior foes a lot of the time where the ship was never in any danger to begin with.
Sparks are flying on ALL SF ships when under attack and crewmen suffer potentially fatal injuries from it. Enterprise-D was no exception to this, but it was in far less engagements compared to Voyager.
Also, do I need to mention that 2 measly Klingon BoP's operated/modified by Ferengi were able to bring a Galaxy class ship to it's knees and capture the entire crew with handful of soldiers so they can put them to slave work until the children forms of captain, Guinan, Ro and Keiko helped in ship's 'liberation'?
While Voyager at the same time went up against powerful species that were on par with the Federation or less advanced ones that attacked the ship in numbers.
The Vidiians among others were on par with the Federation and attacked Voyager in numbers (an example is the episode when the crew was searching for the cure for Janeway and Chakotay).
The ship was able to hold out in battle against 3 Vidiian ships long enough to not just get the cure but also get away employing clever tactics.
The 'hypothermic charge' you mention (not sure of the name either), was again effective because Voyager's shields/propulsion/weapons were NOT operational when the ship was duplicated as both Voyager's were drawing power from a single source.
We don't know if the ship would end up disabled in the same fashion with it's shields/weapons/engines fully operational.
A Galaxy class in a same situation would not have fared better.
It was never mentioned officially that the Intrepid was out-fitted with anti-Borg technology, but it IS a logical deduction given the fact that Shelby said in BoBw those systems will be ready for fleet-wide use in 14 months time (and Voyager was launched years after those systems were done).
On a side note, I played BC with the KM mod, and was able to beat a Galaxy class ship with relatively difficult settings. Some times I'd win, and other times I'd lose.
Not that it's conclusive evidence though because the game isn't an exact replica of star-ship capabilities ... rather guess work.
Still it's a fun game to play.
If both ships have identical shields and power output of those shields, then a logical conclusion is that both will hold out equally.
Designers of Voyager (people who worked on the show and designed the ship) stated in one of their interviews that it's supposed to have same weapons/shields as a Galaxy class.
Tom Paris stated in one of the episodes that the ship was built for combat, not concert performances.
Size is hardly what matters in these instances if both ships output identical power levels for offensive/defensive systems.
The SIF fields on the Intrepid though would likely be stronger if anything because it can endure faster Warp velocities (9.975) compared to the Galaxy (9.2 ?).
'Also, every time someone sneezed on Voyager, Ops would burst into a shower of sparks, the MSD would start flickering, shields would go down to 47% and decks 6, 11 and 14 would randomly breach. Such melodramatics were much less common when we saw the Enterprise-D going up against a foe... hence why I still think the Galaxy would win.'
Voyager was in a DQ where most races they encountered on a frequent basis wanted them out of their territory or were hostile in general (and were advanced enough to pose a threat to 1 ship).
The Enterprise-D was for the most part within Federation territory, or on the fringes of it conducting detailed scans/exploration of areas that were known before and not really explored in detail. It also went up against technologically inferior foes a lot of the time where the ship was never in any danger to begin with.
Sparks are flying on ALL SF ships when under attack and crewmen suffer potentially fatal injuries from it. Enterprise-D was no exception to this, but it was in far less engagements compared to Voyager.
Also, do I need to mention that 2 measly Klingon BoP's operated/modified by Ferengi were able to bring a Galaxy class ship to it's knees and capture the entire crew with handful of soldiers so they can put them to slave work until the children forms of captain, Guinan, Ro and Keiko helped in ship's 'liberation'?
While Voyager at the same time went up against powerful species that were on par with the Federation or less advanced ones that attacked the ship in numbers.
The Vidiians among others were on par with the Federation and attacked Voyager in numbers (an example is the episode when the crew was searching for the cure for Janeway and Chakotay).
The ship was able to hold out in battle against 3 Vidiian ships long enough to not just get the cure but also get away employing clever tactics.
The 'hypothermic charge' you mention (not sure of the name either), was again effective because Voyager's shields/propulsion/weapons were NOT operational when the ship was duplicated as both Voyager's were drawing power from a single source.
We don't know if the ship would end up disabled in the same fashion with it's shields/weapons/engines fully operational.
A Galaxy class in a same situation would not have fared better.
It was never mentioned officially that the Intrepid was out-fitted with anti-Borg technology, but it IS a logical deduction given the fact that Shelby said in BoBw those systems will be ready for fleet-wide use in 14 months time (and Voyager was launched years after those systems were done).
On a side note, I played BC with the KM mod, and was able to beat a Galaxy class ship with relatively difficult settings. Some times I'd win, and other times I'd lose.
Not that it's conclusive evidence though because the game isn't an exact replica of star-ship capabilities ... rather guess work.
Still it's a fun game to play.
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The thing is though Everyone knows that the times the Galaxy class was beaten by ancient ships ETC it was BS writing behind it, similar to Voyager repeatedly owning the Borg, what we are doing is taking all that rubbish writing out and simply weighing up which is the more powerful ship, as the landslide goes to show It's obvious that the Galaxy Class is bigger, better armed, better able to take a shot and just more suited to combat in every way than the Intrepid. Oh and if the Intrepid was "Made for battle" Why did we not even see one in the dominion war? I say It's because they knew it would get owned and they didn't want to waste the money they spent building them just for them to get bombed out in seconds by the dominion.
When did Voyager ever 'own' the Borg apart from Endgame utilizing future technologies?
The queen was playing games with Janeway, allowing her to win most of the time ... and even then, Voyager was barely coming out alive from most skirmishes with the Borg while doing little to no real damage on it's own to them (except from Unimatrix Zero perhaps, but this was more that Voyager was expanding on an already existing and accessible Borg weakness from their drones).
The Tactical cube it was fighting was in 0 danger from Voyager.
Only when the rebel sphere joined the fight did the threat factor increase ... and if we recall, the cube was self-destructed by the queen.
How is the galaxy class 'obviously better armed' (apart from having a larger torpedo compliment)?
Why the notion that smaller ships cannot be larger ships's matches in terms of generated power output when on-screen evidence clearly suggests otherwise?
Defiant, Voyager and Prometheus all being noted examples of TNG era, along with the Sovereign class.
I mean honestly ... all of those ships should be owned by the Galaxy class simply because it's larger (according to some individuals).
When will people realize that SF was portrayed with the premise that 'size doesn't always matter'?
The queen was playing games with Janeway, allowing her to win most of the time ... and even then, Voyager was barely coming out alive from most skirmishes with the Borg while doing little to no real damage on it's own to them (except from Unimatrix Zero perhaps, but this was more that Voyager was expanding on an already existing and accessible Borg weakness from their drones).
The Tactical cube it was fighting was in 0 danger from Voyager.
Only when the rebel sphere joined the fight did the threat factor increase ... and if we recall, the cube was self-destructed by the queen.
How is the galaxy class 'obviously better armed' (apart from having a larger torpedo compliment)?
Why the notion that smaller ships cannot be larger ships's matches in terms of generated power output when on-screen evidence clearly suggests otherwise?
Defiant, Voyager and Prometheus all being noted examples of TNG era, along with the Sovereign class.
I mean honestly ... all of those ships should be owned by the Galaxy class simply because it's larger (according to some individuals).
When will people realize that SF was portrayed with the premise that 'size doesn't always matter'?
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