Anything on Sela? [Minor Spoilers]

[Rush Limborg]

I had wondered about the question what has become of Sela myself.

Before Nemesis hit the cinemas we had a game going in which she was a very powerful, cunning and intersting reoccuring villian. I always liked the torn nature of the character and the background.

I was deeply disappointed on multiple levels with Nemesis, that Sela wasn't part of it was a minor complaint.

That Sela didn't feature in any of the newer Trek books (that I had read) was another disappointment to me as well. I have only just heard (by reading this thread) that she appears in Death in Winter.

A cunning and plotting character like her should have felt right at home in the chaos that engulfed the Romulan Star Empire after the coup and then fall of Preator Shinzon.

Amen.

Especially considering the civil war...and Donatra's rebellion. Considering her unflinching loyalty to the Romulan State, I wonder how well she'd get along with the new Praetor. T'alura, isn't it?

Hmm...

(Jots furiosly in notebook)

 

[ClayinCA]

I'd kind of like to know what Sela was up to during the Borg incursion in Destiny - did she fight in any of the battles, or was she plotting behind the scenes, trying to maneuver herself into a good position for the aftermath?

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Sela, to me, was always a wonderful rich character with so much to work with. However, she was used as a Snidely Whiplash villain, always scheming and failing and coming back for more with little done to explore her character and motivations. I address this in a piece coming in a future issue of Star Trek Magazine.

Sort of the Wile E. Coyote of the Trek universe?

--Ted

"Commander Sela...suuuuuuuuuper genius!"

Much like the Romulans in general were used.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I'd kind of like to know what Sela was up to during the Borg incursion in Destiny - did she fight in any of the battles, or was she plotting behind the scenes, trying to maneuver herself into a good position for the aftermath?

Probably...the latter.

(Jots down more notes)

 

[JoeZhang]

When you have a regime change in an empire, generally some people fall out of favour.

So all that is needed is Mack or someone to write a short paragraph when it's explained, she was pushed to her knees and shot through the back of the head. Then everyone is happy! The people who wanted to know what happened to her, the people who wanted her to die..

 

[LutherSloan]

Sela had to be involved somehow. Tomalak, who was also a pretty conniving character, was deeply involved in the conflict. Considering Sela was a lot more opportunistic (trying to invade Vulcan, even knowing that the Empire could never hold that world for very long) than Tomalak (IMO), she was probably behind the scenes. I agree that she was not crazy enough to fight the Borg, and most likely stayed within Romulan territory during the time.

I wish she wasn't so one dimensional of a character. I would not be that interested in writing her into a story.

 

[JoeZhang]

Why would she be in charge of anything more important than a passenger liner? Every Cobra Commander type scheme she ran ended in utter failure.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Here's something:

Ya think Sela's evil plots were simply... her trying SO hard to defeat Picard, so as to get a reaction, preferably a respectful one?

I'm thinking along the lines of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead. Near the middle of the book, the evil Ellsworth M. Toohey confronts the heroic Howard Roark, presumably to gloat. After Toohey tries to get Roark to aknowledge that he's been beaten, this exchange happens:

TOOHEY: "Mr. Roark...we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me--in any words you wish? No one will hear us."

ROARK: But I don't think of you.

Toohey is struck silent at this. See, what he really wanted was to get a reaction from Roark, preferrably one of respect--which, of course, he doesn't get.


Compare this to the exchange between Sela and Picard:

SELA: Everything in me that was human, died that day. All that's left is Romulan--NEVER DOUBT THAT!

PICARD: Doubts? I'm full of them. But this will not change how I will treat our next encounter. (Or words to that effect)

Sela is also clearly ticked off at this--like she's ticked when Data (in "Unification") suggests she picks another line of work. Or when Spock Refuses to respect her plan, driving her to explode, "I HATE Vulcans!"

I can just imagine:

"Oh, come now, (Jean-Luc/Data/Spock)...admit it. You've been beaten. I've won. Can't you see that? Now (leans forward)...why don't you tell me what you think?"

(calmly) "Of you?"

(Shrugs) "Of course!"

"But...I do not."

 

[SicOne]

I'm thinking Sela pretty much shot her wad, so to speak, in terms of political and military support by screwing up badly in "Redemption" and "Unification". Everything she touched, which she thought she was doing so clever, turned to crap. I can see her having some family connections (her father was supposedly a Romulan general) to allow her to try things out at a very young age (early 20s by "Redemption"), but I can't see those two abyssmal failures endearing her to the powers-that-be in letting her try a third scheme where Picard, et al, hand her ass to her again.

Haven't read "Death In Winter", what happened there?

 

[ClayinCA]

Well, oddly enough, she tried a third scheme, at the end of which Picard, et al, handed her ass to her. Again.

 

[BrotherBenny]

In my fanfic, Sela is far more successful, and much more devious.

 

[Rush Limborg]

In my fanfic, Sela is far more successful, and much more devious.

Come to think of it, Bob Greenberger wrote a book in which Sela beats Picard fare and square, in Romulan Strategem, I believe.

Maybe what we saw were just two (or three) falures, in an otherwise HIGHLY successful carreer.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Why does Sela always seem to get a bad rap from Trek BBS's members? I always found her to be a compelling character. Sure her creation is a little convulted considering she basically originates from an alternate timeline (or at least her mother is from an alternate timeline) but I have always liked her from Unification and thought that she would've made a more viable villan in Star Trek Nemesis than Shinzon. I know others will and have disagreed with me on this. I need to re-read Death in Winter then...I seem to have forgot the sequence mentioned.

 

[Bob Greenberger]

Why yes, yes he did write such a book. He even remains very proud of it.

 

[Corran Horn]

Why yes, yes he did write such a book. He even remains very proud of it.

He should be. It's a great book and unique for the reasons stated above.

 

[KRAD]

Why does Sela always seem to get a bad rap from Trek BBS's members?

Well, I explained my reasons in this very thread, but to reiterate what I said then:

My problem isn't her one-dimensionality, it's her complete lack of impressiveness as a villain (her plans in both "Redemption" and "Unification" were incredibly lame, and far too easily neutralized), it's the fact that the character only exists because the producers took pity on Denise Crosby for her terminally poor judgment in quitting the show in the first place, and it's that her presence utterly ruined "Redemption Part 2," in which the entire plot ground to a halt so a commander in the Romulan military could beam over to an enemy vessel in a time of war alone for the sole purpose of providing exposition to the audience about why there's a blond Romulan who looks and sounds like Tasha Yar.

She isn't a character, she's an actor being given a job, and there are dozens of more interesting Romulans to choose from.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Why does Sela always seem to get a bad rap from Trek BBS's members?

Well, I explained my reasons in this very thread, but to reiterate what I said then:

My problem isn't her one-dimensionality, it's her complete lack of impressiveness as a villain (her plans in both "Redemption" and "Unification" were incredibly lame, and far too easily neutralized), it's the fact that the character only exists because the producers took pity on Denise Crosby for her terminally poor judgment in quitting the show in the first place, and it's that her presence utterly ruined "Redemption Part 2," in which the entire plot ground to a halt so a commander in the Romulan military could beam over to an enemy vessel in a time of war alone for the sole purpose of providing exposition to the audience about why there's a blond Romulan who looks and sounds like Tasha Yar.

She isn't a character, she's an actor being given a job, and there are dozens of more interesting Romulans to choose from.

KRAD, I hate to disagree with you, but however she came about, she is a character, even if many think she is a pathetic one. I thought I could make her more interesting in my fanfic and I tried, leaving it to the readers to see if it worked. Isn't that what Trek literature can do? Take people that were originally bit part or irregularly-recurring characters and make them three-dimensional? Look at Gomez, Duffy, Stevens and Sarjenka from CoE for starters!

 

[KRAD]

KRAD, I hate to disagree with you, but however she came about, she is a character, even if many think she is a pathetic one. I thought I could make her more interesting in my fanfic and I tried, leaving it to the readers to see if it worked. Isn't that what Trek literature can do? Take people that were originally bit part or irregularly-recurring characters and make them three-dimensional? Look at Gomez, Duffy, Stevens and Sarjenka from CoE for starters!

Why do you hate to disagree with me? It's not forbidden....

Speaking only for myself, I was never motivated to try to make Sela three-dimensional because I never was interested in the character. Gomez, Duffy, Stevens, and Sarjenka all interested me as people when I saw them in "Q Who," "Hollow Pursuits," "Starship Down," and "Pen Pals": Gomez's driven naivete, Duffy's casual friendliness and professionalism, Stevens's banter with Muniz and O'Brien, and Sarjenka's voracious curiosity about the universe.

Plus, those characters were actually part of the episode they were in. Sela was sledgehammered into "Redemption," added nothing to the plot, and took time away from Worf and Data's (far more interesting) parts of the story in order to explain why she was blonde and looked like Tasha Yar.

 

[Rush Limborg]

however she came about, she is a character, even if many think she is a pathetic one. I thought I could make her more interesting in my fanfic and I tried, leaving it to the readers to see if it worked. Isn't that what Trek literature can do? Take people that were originally bit part or irregularly-recurring characters and make them three-dimensional?

Not to worry.

I'll get to it--once I get established with Pocket.

For those of y'all who want to use her, and would like inspiration...consider my previous comments:

When Sela and Picard first come face-to-face, she tells him what happened to Tasha--how she died, etc. She goes into a lot of detail, which, frankly, implies that the scene had been playing in her mind, over and over for so long, that she had to let it out.

As she tells the tale, her tone gets more and more intense, and when she says, "My father offered her a life, and a home... and she betrayed him!", she all but shouts it out.

I dunno...but it seems to me that when she says this, she's trying to justify to Picard her actions back then--her betrayel of her mother.

So...when she declares, "Everything that was human in me died that day. All that's left is Romulan--NEVER DOUBT THAT!", Picard, of course, shrugs and says, "Doubts? I'm full of them."

I'm no shrink, but... it looks as if she is consumed with guilt, and she is telling herself that it was her mother's fault. She hides her guilt, in effect, by becoming the mortal enemy of everything her mother stood for...which, by the way, is represented by Picard.

Hence, she tries to gloat with this tale...at first. But when she gets into it, she becomes very emotional.


In "Unification", this insecurity is hinted at. When she grumbles about how difficult her life has become, because of Picard, Data, and Spock, Data says, "Perhaps you should consider another line of work."

She looks pissed off at this, to say it mildly.

When Spock refuses to go along with the plan, she actually explodes. "I hate Vulcans! I hate the logic, I hate the stubborness," etc.


It would be most interesting to see if this insecurity could be explored further... it would go a long way towards promoting her from 1-D status, to put it mildly.

And:

Ya think Sela's evil plots were simply... her trying SO hard to defeat Picard, so as to get a reaction, preferably a respectful one?

I'm thinking along the lines of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead. Near the middle of the book, the evil Ellsworth M. Toohey confronts the heroic Howard Roark, presumably to gloat. After Toohey tries to get Roark to aknowledge that he's been beaten, this exchange happens:

TOOHEY: "Mr. Roark...we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me--in any words you wish? No one will hear us."

ROARK: But I don't think of you.

Toohey is struck silent at this. See, what he really wanted was to get a reaction from Roark, preferrably one of respect--which, of course, he doesn't get.


Compare this to the exchange between Sela and Picard:

SELA: Everything in me that was human, died that day. All that's left is Romulan--NEVER DOUBT THAT!

PICARD: Doubts? I'm full of them. But this will not change how I will treat our next encounter. (Or words to that effect)

Sela is also clearly ticked off at this--like she's ticked when Data (in "Unification") suggests she picks another line of work. Or when Spock Refuses to respect her plan, driving her to explode, "I HATE Vulcans!"

I can just imagine:

"Oh, come now, (Jean-Luc/Data/Spock)...admit it. You've been beaten. I've won. Can't you see that? Now (leans forward)...why don't you tell me what you think?"

(calmly) "Of you?"

(Shrugs) "Of course!"

"But...I do not."

 

[Rush Limborg]

Why do you hate to disagree with me? It's not forbidden....

Maybe not...but, your bein' the "Alpha-Dawg" that you are...we all feel a GREAT deal o' shame when we do....

I mean, it's like telling JFK that he's WRONG.

Or Lincoln. Or Reagan. When you're with their respective parties, I mean....

You're a popular guy. End of story.