What hell is wrong with health care in the States!?!

[T'Baio]

Since my question has been apparently skipped over by the flood of posts, I'll ask again.
For those of you who did this or that surgery or stayed in a hospital for a week and paid little to nothing, I ask who paid for it?

I mean doctors and surgeons don't work for free and neither do their machines and tools...

Just curious...

The Government does. We pay taxes for these sorts of things. Well worth it, and a comparable amount of taxes as you guys pay. But I get health care.

So you pay comparable taxes to me? Where do you live if you don't mind me asking? I don't see universal health care happening in the US without a lot of tax increases. eek.

I live in Ontario.

 

[John Picard]

The Government does. We pay taxes for these sorts of things. Well worth it, and a comparable amount of taxes as you guys pay. But I get health care.

So you pay comparable taxes to me? Where do you live if you don't mind me asking? I don't see universal health care happening in the US without a lot of tax increases. eek.

I live in Ontario.

How close are you to Simcoe or London?

 

[Augustus]

well i think if it were to ever work in the US, we would have to cut some major crud out of our budget.

Also, in Ontario, is medical care as good as it is here? I have heard stories from those who have lived in other countries of sub par or at least not as good as US care, despite its cost.

I still hear stories too of rich europeans coming here for their care, and never any aboutAmericans leaving to go to other countries for medical care. But that is just anecdotal.

 

[RoJoHen]

Probably depends on the nature of the health care.

I've had friends travel abroad to Canada and Europe and get sick during their time there. They were able to walk into a clinic, get examined, get medicine, and not pay a dime without even being citizens. They said they loved it.

 

[Augustus]

Well who wouldn't love that?
Yeah this is an issue I should educate myself on, but it just seems to good to be true. I pay a little more in taxes and my health care is just as good AND its free.

Even Taco Bell still charges me for lunch...

 

[RoJoHen]

I honestly think it should be a mandate for businesses to offer health insurance to their employees. That's the main problem in the US. So many workers do not get health insurance through their jobs, and they can't afford to go out and purchase a separate insurance plan.

That's my situation. I'd gladly have some money taken out of my check for health coverage. I just can't afford another bill coming to my house every month.

 

[Pingfah]

I don't really see a UHC plan working unless you cut out the profit making insurance companies. Value for money health care and a profit making middleman don't really mix.

 

[Augustus]

The only problem is some businesses can't afford to provide any kind of meaningful coverage.

 

[Lindley]

The only problem is some businesses can't afford to provide any kind of meaningful coverage.

So don't apply to those places if it's important to you. I know work is tight right now for some people and they may not have a great deal of choice....but that is how a free-market system is supposed to work. If being able to pay for good health coverage is a discriminator in which companies get the good workers, they'll start making sure they can afford it.

 

[Augustus]

Oh I was responding to a post above me that said that government should mandate that businesses provide health care coverage. I was trying to say I am against that because some businesses are barely surviving without it.
I am not sure how "they will make sure they can afford it". A bottom line is a bottom line.

I know our system here in the US is flawed for sure and could use serious reform, but like I said, socialized or universal health care sounds to good to be true.

 

[Pingfah]

Why don't you do some research then instead of just proclaiming it sounds too good to be true. Do you think the UK's NHS is fictional or something?

It may not be perfect, but I assure you it works better for the majority of people than yours does, you can't go bankrupt trying to get your knee fixed or anything.

 

[Lindley]

I am not sure how "they will make sure they can afford it". A bottom line is a bottom line.

A company which is unable to meet all its necessary costs disappears. If the workers demand that health coverage be one of those necessary costs, they'll find a way or they'll be gone. Either way, problem solved.

Of course, workers are not demanding that, largely because for now it's an employer's job market.

 

[Hoser]

....but that is how a free-market system is supposed to work.

That's the problem. Health care in a free market soars to increase profits. Businesses that offered insurance have to cut it back, make their employees pay more, or have their profits decreased.
Employees that had it either had to have their coverage diminished, or eliminated outright, in order to still have enough money to live day to day.
Then they get hit by a big illness and end up bankrupt.

 

[RoJoHen]

Oh I was responding to a post above me that said that government should mandate that businesses provide health care coverage. I was trying to say I am against that because some businesses are barely surviving without it.
I am not sure how "they will make sure they can afford it". A bottom line is a bottom line.

Then, cruel as it sounds, I would argue that those businesses don't deserve to survive anyway.

 

[Augustus]

Why don't you do some research then instead of just proclaiming it sounds too good to be true. Do you think the UK's NHS is fictional or something?

It may not be perfect, but I assure you it works better for the majority of people than yours does, you can't go bankrupt trying to get your knee fixed or anything.

Well, what I have been told and the research I have already done, admittedly not enough to be an expert on the subject, reinforces my point that it is too good to be true. Stories of long lines and wait-listed procedures for months and months are what I have heard and read about.

 

[Pingfah]

Urgent cases get treated urgently, less urgent ones don't. It took me a year to get my ligament in my knee replaced, but it was done, and it was done well.

It's a system that serves everybody though, unlike yours.

 

[Amaris]

Exactly. And you know, Americans pay taxes too without getting what we as Canadians get for our tax dollars. Our drug plans are only a good as where we work, however our drug prices are low. I am fortunate. I am a teacher and we have excellent drug coverage (I don't pay for it, period), and extended health care (coverage for glasses,dental, massage, orthopedics, orthodontiacs, speech therapy and so on).

Seniors do not pay for their meds, except a $2 'payment'. I'll say that again, seniors....the retired workers of our country, do not pay for their meds.

And none of us pay for our health care (doctors, surgery, hospitalization, etc.)

As I said, my family has had health care crisis. Both my parents have had extensive surgeries, and hospitilizations. And we didn't go into debt to have them cared for. That's the bottom line. When a family member gets ill, do you want to worry about how to pay for it? Or do you want to concentrate on getting your family member through a difficult time instead, safe in the knowledge that the best care is being given....not dependant on how much you can pay.

I love my country!

It would be nice not to worry about where I'm going to get the money for my medications every month.

Sorry to hear you got let go John. My BIL just did as well. They're trying to get on Masshealth right now as Cobra is way too much for them. Masshealth is a free policy paid by tax dollars. And it's actually very good coverage.

Sounds like you need to run for office or get your politicians to offer something like that if you feel it's necessary.

My doctor will give me samples of Actos (diabetes) a few times a year to curb the cost of co-pays. I wonder if your's will. I would back some controls (hate to but would) on pricing from big pharma and pharmacies. But that's not going to happen as they are a big lobby group.

My doctor tries. The particular medications I have are still fairly new, and the drug company that manufactures it is pretty tight fisted about it, but once every couple of months he's able to get me some medication. Without him I'd be in serious trouble, so I appreciate what he does. Unfortunately, he can't keep this up. I have four medications I take, two of them over the $200 a month mark (cheapest pharmacy in town, too), and lately he's been running out of supplies as other people are in the same situation as myself. I did the PPARX program, but they're backed up for what I need, and it will take a while to get it, so out of luck there. What sucks about all this is that I just want a good, steady job. It's odd that it's too much to ask for the moment.

J.

 

[Augustus]

Well, I wouldn't call it my system Like I said, there is room for improvement to say the least.

I have bad knees and while I haven't torn a ligament, I have hyperextended a knee cap, destroyed cartilage, and basically have had a host of other problems for the past 10 years.
But I don't think I would want to wait a year to get a ligament replaced.
My brother had to have a similar procedure, and while it still cost him some money, insurance did pay for the vast majority of it.

 

[Pingfah]

Well, I wouldn't call it my system Like I said, there is room for improvement to say the least.

I have bad knees and while I haven't torn a ligament, I have hyperextended a knee cap, destroyed cartilage, and basically have had a host of other problems for the past 10 years.
But I don't think I would want to wait a year to get a ligament replaced.
My brother had to have a similar procedure, and while it still cost him some money, insurance did pay for the vast majority of it.

Actually I had the torn ligament and all the rest of that too. They fixed it all over the course of a year.

But in America there are those who are not insured and not eligible for medicaid, I understand there are quite a few of those, 43 million or something?

And there are those who's insurance company will screw them over or find a reason not to pay for some part of it, which is completely in their own interests. A completely socialised healthcare system gets rid of those two problems.

As I said, ours is not perfect, but it is my subjective opinion that it is better. Obviously there can be no statistical proof of that as what constitutes better is open to opinion, a lot of people in your country don't care about the uninsured for instance, that is their right not to care. I do.

 

[darkshadow0001]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal/01/22/family.economic.survival/index.html

Read that.

A family gone $45,000 into debt because of a case of pneumonia and tonsillitis!?!

That would cost me...NOTHING!

Sweet holy criminy.

Bring on the "you pay for it in other ways" people.

That's rediculous too, I think. Lately for minor stuff I've been avoiding the doctor and trying to take care of myself without big doctor bills. My job doesn't offer insurance for part-time people. I'm gonna have to find a job that does eventually. I'm gald I don't get sick that often.