Destiny: Gods of Night by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

^^Well, why not have a character back on Cestus III who knows about Vicenzo's decision and doesn't agree with it? Why is Miranda the only one being treated as though there's something wrong with her when it was a mutual decision? I think there is a double standard in evidence here.

I mean, Miranda's not the first ST character to leave a young child behind. What about Jack Crusher? He shipped back out with the Stargazer not long after Wesley was born, and he spent so little time with his family in the ensuing six years that Wesley barely got to know him. Jack made the exact same career choice that Miranda has. Yet I've never heard anyone criticize him for that choice or accuse him of "abandoning" his family -- perhaps because our society expects men to be focused on their careers and women to be focused on their families.

 

[William Leisner]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

I think you give the authors far too much credit...

I think this cuts right to the heart of the matter, so I’m going to add my last thoughts based on this. [...]

Uh... Kirr? My comment was meant as nothing more than an amusing, self-deprecating comment in response to Steve Mollmann's post -- self-deprecating since I'm the next guy to deal with Miranda, Vicenzo and the kids. And as that guy, I'm avoiding saying anything more on the topic for the present time.

 

[Claudia]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

If Kadohata is going to be criticised for that, however, then her husband Vicenzo must also come under scrutiny.

QFT.

He chose to remain with his career too, and his is arguably far less important than his wife's.

Erm... says who? I'd say teaching is one of the most important professions there are.

If we start weighing careers we'll open a Pandora's box (especially considering that females nowadays still occupy less paid, less well thought of jobs than men).

 

[Kirr]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

For clarity, and because I find that I can’t post here anymore due to my annoyance level, I’m going to make two last points.

First, as has been pointed out by myself and others already, this is not a sexism thing (at least not for me). If Miranda was a man, I’d still have this problem with 'him'. If this was Picard doing this, I’d be annoyed – and please, feel free to explore that with either Picard/Crusher or Riker/Troi and see how that goes. In the examples of conversation I gave before, if it was percieved as being only one sided – I can’t help how you perceived it. I can point out that, yes, please – have Miranda say ‘and why the hell didn’t you follow me to the Enterprise’. My point was/is that this conversation is not happening.

Secondly, William, I do understand that was a self-depreciating comment, and for the record, I look forward to reading Losing the Peace even if my issues with Miranda are not dealt with at all. I will say that your comment was made relative to a comment about ‘maybe the authors have a plan’ and my point was that I’m not assuming there is a plan, and that in fact since there are actually authors posting on these boards perhaps they’re looking for this kind of feedback and want to understand why a reader feels they way they do, and what they might be able to do differently to change that reader’s perception. Perhaps this has all been dealt with in your novel and it will be a moot point. Perhaps it hasn’t and some future author will gain some small kernel of insight from here.

With that said, I am done. David Mack, I’m sorry that this topic was completely derailed and that my message that I thought Gods of Night was awesome was lost in here. I look forward to reading book 2.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

If Kadohata is going to be criticised for that, however, then her husband Vicenzo must also come under scrutiny.

QFT.

He chose to remain with his career too, and his is arguably far less important than his wife's.

Erm... says who? I'd say teaching is one of the most important professions there are.

If we start weighing careers we'll open a Pandora's box (especially considering that females nowadays still occupy less paid, less well thought of jobs than men).

Teaching is definitely a massively important profession, but he teaches ancient languages that are no longer in use. When you compare that to Kadohata's job as second officer aboard the Enterprise, it doesn't seem particularly crucial.

 

[William Leisner]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Secondly, William, I do understand that was a self-depreciating comment, and for the record, I look forward to reading Losing the Peace even if my issues with Miranda are not dealt with at all. I will say that your comment was made relative to a comment about ‘maybe the authors have a plan’ and my point was that I’m not assuming there is a plan, and that in fact since there are actually authors posting on these boards perhaps they’re looking for this kind of feedback and want to understand why a reader feels they way they do, and what they might be able to do differently to change that reader’s perception. Perhaps this has all been dealt with in your novel and it will be a moot point. Perhaps it hasn’t and some future author will gain some small kernel of insight from here.

Well, I do appreciate your intention to read LTP, and I hope, regardless of how or if these issues are addressed, you enjoy it.

 

[Claudia]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Teaching is definitely a massively important profession, but he teaches ancient languages that are no longer in use. When you compare that to Kadohata's job as second officer aboard the Enterprise, it doesn't seem particularly crucial.

I definitely don't agree with that assessment. Why should the importance of Vicenzo's job depend on what he teaches? And honestly, I'd even argue that it's because he teaches ancient languages that his job's important... that way ancient languages and cultures, and the diversity of a civilization don't get lost.

Anyway, let's leave it at that. *g*

 

[adamczar]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

^ And, teaching ancient languages and such can be very important not just for historical purposes, but for a greater understanding of modern society and how it evolved. Linguists base a lot of what they can deduce (I'd assume) based on the ancient languages they may be based on.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Learning Latin has a lot of uses beyond understanding Latin. It can improve your grasp of English by providing insight into the roots of words and their relationships, and the study and memorization required are good training for learning skills that are useful in other walks of life. Presumably the same might go for other ancient languages.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

I don't really have an opinion on this ongoing Kadohata debate; just wanted to pop in and say I finally got around to reading book 1 of this, and oh my GOD was it awesome. Lived up to every expectation I had, especially the Columbia story.

 

[Semah]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

I just finished reading it and enjoyed it quite a bit. Had some minor issues with it, mostly in Troi's story arc and the use of The Borg yet again, but overall, I found it a fascinating tapestry into Trekdom and look forward to reading the next 2.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Reading through this book (my pace is much slower than usual because time seems to be slipping away from me at the moment), I can't help but wonder how the DS9 line is going to be handled with all of this. It's got years to catch up on, so how is that to be managed? Will we build up at its typically slow speed, with that series being perpetually behind the others? Will we see the effects of this on the DS9 characters, such as Kira and Vaughn, when they reach 2381?

Either way, I think the DS9 series needs more than two books in 2009.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Reading through this book (my pace is much slower than usual because time seems to be slipping away from me at the moment), I can't help but wonder how the DS9 line is going to be handled with all of this. It's got years to catch up on, so how is that to be managed? Will we build up at its typically slow speed, with that series being perpetually behind the others? Will we see the effects of this on the DS9 characters, such as Kira and Vaughn, when they reach 2381?

Either way, I think the DS9 series needs more than two books in 2009.

Well, I certainly don't think you'll get much disagreement on that last point around here

 

[Sci]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Reading through this book (my pace is much slower than usual because time seems to be slipping away from me at the moment), I can't help but wonder how the DS9 line is going to be handled with all of this. It's got years to catch up on, so how is that to be managed? Will we build up at its typically slow speed, with that series being perpetually behind the others?

Why not? It's not like every Trek novel out there is telling the same story. That TTN, TNG, and VOY are more or less on the same page is just what the editors and authors feel work best for those series. NF and DS9 get to continue on their own, at their own paces, whilst, of course, TOS, ENT, and VAN get to do their thing back in the 23rd and 22nd Centuries.

Will we see the effects of this on the DS9 characters, such as Kira and Vaughn, when they reach 2381?

I would just point out that the Borg's invasion fleet originated in the Beta Quadrant and that most of the damage done was borne there. DS9 and Bajor are literally on the other side of the Federation, so it's possible that the effects of the invasion would be minimized from their POV.

Either way, I think the DS9 series needs more than two books in 2009.

What, Terok Nor doesn't count?

 

[DimesDan]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Either way, I think the DS9 series needs more than two books in 2009.

What, Terok Nor doesn't count?

The Terok Nor books were out in 2008, I think he or she may very well be just referring to The Soul Key and The Never Ending Sacrifice which are out this year (2009) and the only two stories based on or around DS9.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Why not? It's not like every Trek novel out there is telling the same story. That TTN, TNG, and VOY are more or less on the same page is just what the editors and authors feel work best for those series.

And in fact, they usually aren't "on the same page." Those series (well, at least TNG and TTN) were charting their own independent courses prior to Destiny, and the upcoming VGR novel filling in the gap will tell its own independent story as well. The convergence of series is something that was done once for Destiny and will be done again for a 2010 event, but on the whole, there's no requirement that they run in sync as a matter of course.

Either way, I think the DS9 series needs more than two books in 2009.

What, Terok Nor doesn't count?

Terok Nor came out in 2008, not 2009.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

I know it isn't exactly a story requirement that DS9 be working within the same time frame as the other series, but I'd personally prefer that it was to create a stronger time connection between the mainstream books.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Finally finished!

An all-around excellent book. I loved the way that the story threads have all been tied together already, and how Dax and her crew were introduced so quickly and effectively. The biggest surprise, though, was how much I enjoyed the Hernandez sections. I wasn't invested in her character at all before I began reading, but now I am completely.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

The biggest surprise, though, was how much I enjoyed the Hernandez sections. I wasn't invested in her character at all before I began reading, but now I am completely.

...

Oh, you just wait.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Coming back to the topic of DS9 being out of sync (sorry, it's probably a tired subject for discussion), I realised while reading "Mere Mortals" why it bothers me so much. It's because part of the series - namely Dax and Bowers (and, less importantly, Leishman and Tarses) - has moved on without it. We can't view, say, Dax in relation to Kira and Vaughn anymore, because we don't know what's going on with them.

And that seems odd to me.