It's Hard Out Here For a Twentysomething

[Plecostomus]

No one likes starting out at $8 an hour but that's where many companies start you now unless you have something to offer... then you might get $10-11.

I've got two decades experience and my last job (the sheet-metal place) started me at $9.50... of course since I was willing to start there and work my way through I ended up earning raises.

That's another thing. Raises are earned! So are bonuses. You have to work for them... and yes you are going to work your ass off for a tiny raise. That's just the way it is for most of us.

Look at it this way. A raise is better than a pay-cut any day.

 

[Mallory]

I haven't personally witnessed this phenomenom yet. My oldest daughter (24) graduated from her university in 2007 and found a job she loves three months later. My youngest daughter (20) is still in school but has had no problem working 30 hours a week lifeguarding. The jobs are out there, you just have to work to find them and be flexible.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

The one thing that the 70s generation has that we don't have: a good retirement package. Retirement packages have been changing a lot in the past 20 years because many businesses cannot afford to do what they've been doing.

I was talking to my dad and the retirement packages, the insurance programs, all of that has simply changed and he was lucky to get in where he was at the time because in the past 20 years it has changed and changed fast.

The issue is, is experience plus age.

When and IF the economy comes back as strong, us 20something year olds will be older and won't have the opportunities new college graduates get. We are struggling to find experience at any place. I'm clinging to hope that my new job pans out to be something and something fun (I enjoy the hell out of my job and I love it!).

But our generation is going to be skipped over when the economy comes back.

Yes people were getting educations in the 70s but college nowadays is almost a must and everyone is graduating with a college degree.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Well, before you guys start feeling too sorry for yourselves, keep in mind that folks in their late 30's and 40's are having it rough too.

Our parents all were able to retire at a reasonable age - assuming they were smart enough to purchase a modest home and save just a bit over the years.

But our generation? Here we are, contributing the max to our 401(ks), year after year for a decade or two...and thanks to recession after recession (two just during the Bush Administration, at least one during the 90's, and a market crash in the late 80's) our life savings are likely worth less than they were 10 years ago...even after adding dollars to them out of our paychecks pay period after pay period.

And those houses that were a great source of equity for our parents? Equity they could live off of in their old age? Many of us don't have that. In fact, many of us are upside down in our mortgages...thanks to all the unmitigated GREED displayed by Wall Street and the mortgage lending markets.

Long story short - I think most people in their early 40's and above will have to work their entire lives. Even those of us who were responsible with our money and who did 'all the right things' (purchased houses, saved via 401(k)s and other vehicles, etc) are not NEARLY on the track we hoped to be on.

 

[Lindley]

I read a lot of business news and one thing that irks hiring managers is the college graduates who think they're worth $50K/year. When I left the Navy in 1994, after 7 years of service, I was happy as hell with $24K/year and worked my way up.

I've also had two stints of being laid off, plus I endured a transfer where I took a $7k/year pay decrease that lasted 9 months.

Computer Science grads are worth 50k/year. More if they were in a strong program. My starting salary right out of Carnegie Mellon was a bit over 60k/year, and two years later I've bumped over 70k.

Now, I don't work for the government, but a defense contractor is almost as good. So the recession hasn't hurt us too badly. Didn't get the Christmas bonus this year, and I fully expect my next raise in April will *not* be 11% again, but the company has avoided laying anyone off so far.

 

[Warp Coil]

I've been extremely fortunate thusfar - so now I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and get screwed like millions of other people. I'm 27, college-educated, and I've been working for the same employer for the past five years (they hired me right out of school). My salary is quite decent and my benefits are nice. I like my job (I don't love it, mind you) and would like to stay employed there for the next few years. I'm just starting grad school this semester (doing it via night classes and online) and my employer will reimburse 80% of the tuition cost.

I'd like to think that I'm "safe" but I know I'm not. I'd really like to just keep my job for the next two years while I'm in school (since they're paying for most of it). I'll be very lucky and very happy if I can ride this out.

 

[Mallory]

Long story short - I think most people in their early 40's and above will have to work their entire lives. Even those of us who were responsible with our money and who did 'all the right things' (purchased houses, saved via 401(k)s and other vehicles, etc) are not NEARLY on the track we hoped to be on.

I hear you. I had to pretty much liquidate my 401(k)s to pay medical bills. At 52, I'm staring at a retirement consisting of Social Security, a whole life annuity I bought when I was 19, the equity in my home and whatever I can scare up in my renewed 401(k) between now and then (which won't be much).

 

[teya]

Long story short - I think most people in their early 40's and above will have to work their entire lives. Even those of us who were responsible with our money and who did 'all the right things' (purchased houses, saved via 401(k)s and other vehicles, etc) are not NEARLY on the track we hoped to be on.

Yep.

And while I love what I do, I really can't see myself doing it for another 20 or 30 years.

So, I'm in school with the notion of retiring from healthcare at 60 and starting a business.

Assuming the economy improves, that is.

 

[Holdfast]

The people worst hit by the current crisis are the 50+ age group.

Not enough time for their equity investments to rebound in terms of capital growth, and if already retired, their ability to drawdown or live off interest is effectively destroyed.

20-somethings have it relatively easy.

On the issue of finding it hard to get a job with a degree, well, "a college education" has long been oversold as a means of guaranteeing employment. It may have been true 30+ years ago, it hasn't been true for decades.

Get a college degree because you actually want to learn about something, grow as a person, or if you have a true vocation for a specific profession, or want to be in academia. Otherwise, find some other way to do what you want to do - if it's a trade, get a trade-related qualification/experience.

People with random college degrees they did just to kill a few years for lack of anything better or because they were just expected to go to university... and then looking for entry-level jobs are going to be knocked back a LOT. Why employ someone who will always be looking for something better?

Back on the main topic - I actually think 20-somethings are in the BEST position to make the most out of the recession, esp. once the recovery starts. House prices will become more affordable, big companies/competitors will be going bust and niche markets will become accessible to shrewd, younger & more nimble companies. Plus their investment savings, once they start them, will have lots of time to grow and the slight benefit of buying near the bottom of a cycle.

My generation (early 30s) are also in a pretty good position - collapsing interest rates mean mortgages are getting cheaper and if you're employed, falling inflation means things are more affordable. Plus, although our savings have been pounded, we've got plenty of time for them to recover. And as a cohort, the removal of senior management as organisations merge, and the general turmoil, means younger people within companies have a chance of maneouvering upwards during the melee.

It will be quite a Darwinian process though.

 

[Goji]

Oh I just love hearing about what life's going to be like for me in about five months.

Of course, I'm still living in my own little fantasy world for the moment. The weather's great here, by the way.

But no matter what, I'm coming out of college able to speak confidently in a language that I've wanted to learn since childhood, which to me is more valuable than a degree. Though that should be fairly nifty too.

 

[teya]

The people worst hit by the current crisis are the 50+ age group.

Not enough time for their equity investments to rebound in terms of capital growth, and if already retired, their ability to drawdown or live off interest is effectively destroyed.

Oh, thanks a bunch. Just reinforce it already.



I actually retired at 51 last August. The intention was to start my fashion business.

My timing, as always, impeccable.

So, back to work in Nov. Fortunately, a terrific position for which I was qualified was open and I ended up making 15 percent more than I had before. Nice.

And I'm just retooling the business plan to make it do-able part-time in a down economy (focussing on creating patterns for hand-knitters rather than ready-to-wear), that can grow as the economy improves.

Flexibility helps.

 

[Holdfast]

Flexibility helps.

Oh, so that's what yoga's for!

 

[Amaris]

^ You'll live.

They said the same thing about those of us who came of age during the 70s. We survived. You will, too.

If nothing else, it will teach you humility.

I've been taught so much humility, I make St. Barnabus look like a callous shill.

^ You'll live.

They said the same thing about those of us who came of age during the 70s. We survived. You will, too.

If nothing else, it will teach you humility.

Yep, especially since the twenty-something crowd is big on instant gratification and getting everything they want right away.

No, I want it now!

J.

 

[Cali]

I am 21, in a job I hate, earning a smidge under £6k a year because it's part-time and all I have been able to find, and it took me three months at that. But I'm not quitting because I KNOW that someday the experience I'm getting will help me, somewhere, somehow.

Although, one good thing about it is that I am slowly paying off my (thankfully interest-free) overdraft. I'm not earning enough for my student loan repayments to kick in, I think here in the UK you have to be earning £15k+ for that.

 

[teya]

Flexibility helps.

Oh, so that's what yoga's for!

No, yoga is for the peace and calm you seek after looking at your portfolio...

 

[Holdfast]

Flexibility helps.

Oh, so that's what yoga's for!

No, yoga is for the peace and calm you seek after looking at your portfolio...

I've found that hard liquor also solves the problem.

Can't even afford the smooth stuff anymore....

 

[teya]

Oh, so that's what yoga's for!

No, yoga is for the peace and calm you seek after looking at your portfolio...

I've found that hard liquor also solves the problem.

Can't even afford the smooth stuff anymore....

The funny thing is, I never used to drink the hard stuff. But I've got a liquor cabinet full, and why let it go to waste?

 

[Holdfast]

Short financials, long distillers.

 

[Balrog]

A good stiff drink soothes the soul during these hard times. Both my wife and I might be unemployed by mid-year. We'll survive.

I don't necessarily see the downturn in the economy as being a completely bad thing. It has certainly taught me that nothing is a guarantee in life. And it's better that the younger generation learn they aren't as special as Mr. Rogers said we are. It has created a BS entitlement attitude by younger generations that I hope goes away.

 

[John Picard]

The one thing that the 70s generation has that we don't have: a good retirement package. Retirement packages have been changing a lot in the past 20 years because many businesses cannot afford to do what they've been doing.

I was talking to my dad and the retirement packages, the insurance programs, all of that has simply changed and he was lucky to get in where he was at the time because in the past 20 years it has changed and changed fast.

The issue is, is experience plus age.

When and IF the economy comes back as strong, us 20something year olds will be older and won't have the opportunities new college graduates get. We are struggling to find experience at any place. I'm clinging to hope that my new job pans out to be something and something fun (I enjoy the hell out of my job and I love it!).

But our generation is going to be skipped over when the economy comes back.

Yes people were getting educations in the 70s but college nowadays is almost a must and everyone is graduating with a college degree.

Based on a lot of your posts that I read, I'm going to tell you to flat out STOP LISTENING TO NEWS MEDIA NEGATIVITY. I bet you worry yourself sick at night about the future. Do you know the great part about a recession? There's an upswing afterward. Market trends for the last 100 years show that. You have nothing to worry about if you invest wisely and set up a retirement plan. I'm turning 40 in two weeks and just saw my 401K statement for the 4th quarter of 2008. I took a $9K bath. As Warren Buffet says, now is the time to start investing like crazy.

I read a lot of business news and one thing that irks hiring managers is the college graduates who think they're worth $50K/year. When I left the Navy in 1994, after 7 years of service, I was happy as hell with $24K/year and worked my way up.

I've also had two stints of being laid off, plus I endured a transfer where I took a $7k/year pay decrease that lasted 9 months.

Computer Science grads are worth 50k/year. More if they were in a strong program. My starting salary right out of Carnegie Mellon was a bit over 60k/year, and two years later I've bumped over 70k.

Now, I don't work for the government, but a defense contractor is almost as good. So the recession hasn't hurt us too badly. Didn't get the Christmas bonus this year, and I fully expect my next raise in April will *not* be 11% again, but the company has avoided laying anyone off so far.

That depends on where you are in the US. On either coast, probably, but where I am (Oklahoma, a starting salary for a programmer is going to be the high $20's. BTW - I work as a contractor for the Federal Government and am paid *very well* compared to the state average