Andrew Probert and Rick Sternbach Communicator/Tricorder Props

[ST-One]

The changes in TMP were also much more appropriate, because as I pointed out, it was set after TOS, and they even made a big deal out of the ship basically being completely rebuilt. ST11, on the other hand, has no such excuses. All they have is a flimsy technobabble explanation in a vain attempt to reboot the franchise without actually coming right out and saying it. So basically this movie is pretending to be TOS and doesn't fit the way TMP does.

TMP doesn't fit either with TOS. There is next to no design element that looks even remotely like one from TOS in TMP (well... there is the earpiece, okay)
The whole look, the whole design aesthetic of Trek changed with TMP.
And the only 'explanation' we got was the refit of the ship being a 'almost completely new Enterprise'.

 

[ancient]

The changes in TMP were also much more appropriate, because as I pointed out, it was set after TOS, and they even made a big deal out of the ship basically being completely rebuilt. ST11, on the other hand, has no such excuses. All they have is a flimsy technobabble explanation in a vain attempt to reboot the franchise without actually coming right out and saying it. So basically this movie is pretending to be TOS and doesn't fit the way TMP does.

TMP doesn't fit either with TOS. There is next to no design element that looks even remotely like one from TOS in TMP (well... there is the earpiece, okay)
The whole look, the whole design aesthetic of Trek changed with TMP.
And the only 'explanation' we got was the refit of the ship being a 'almost completely new Enterprise'.

Exactly. Nothing about the look of TMP-ENT flowed logically from the look of the TOS ENT. They simply made the new look as they saw fit.

It's just a movie.

 

[Unicron]

I'm going to ask that posters cut the personal crap now. I'd prefer not to warn, but I will if I see certain comments again.

 

[ST-One]

The changes in TMP were also much more appropriate, because as I pointed out, it was set after TOS, and they even made a big deal out of the ship basically being completely rebuilt. ST11, on the other hand, has no such excuses. All they have is a flimsy technobabble explanation in a vain attempt to reboot the franchise without actually coming right out and saying it. So basically this movie is pretending to be TOS and doesn't fit the way TMP does.

TMP doesn't fit either with TOS. There is next to no design element that looks even remotely like one from TOS in TMP (well... there is the earpiece, okay)
The whole look, the whole design aesthetic of Trek changed with TMP.
And the only 'explanation' we got was the refit of the ship being a 'almost completely new Enterprise'.

Exactly. Nothing about the look of TMP-ENT flowed logically from the look of the TOS ENT. They simply made the new look as they saw fit.

It's just a movie.

Exactly.

 

[Tigger]

In all honesty, "physical" controls makes a great deal more sense then "virtual" ones. When a "virtual" control console explodes (which seems to happen with alarming frequency in Star Trek), you lose the entire console. Yes, you can change to another console (or even a portable PADD, in theory), but there comes a point where can you really afford to have your Flight Control guy run up to Sciences II and fly the ship with his back to the screen?

But movie audiences today are said to be more "sophisticated" then they were in the 1960's. Even if you debate that in terms of their taste, the fact is that they are at least familiar with, if not grew up with, a certain "modern" design aesthetic that carries over to the movies they watch. And it's not restricted to just Science Fiction films, either. Action films have plenty of "high tech" gadgets (many of them science fiction) and even drama's do - look at CSI.

So seeing a ship from two centuries in the future that can travel between stars in days, if not hours being run by dip switches and push buttons might very well just require a "suspension of disbelief" that modern audiences cannot give - especially if their tastes are as shallow as many proclaim.

 

[Captain Robert April]

One more time.

TMP was set roughly three years after the end of Kirk's original five years mission, which means around seven years after TOS. A lot can change in that time. TMP looking different than TOS is not an incongruity. We can argue back and forth about the stylistic choices that were made, but within the context of the story being told, there's no real conflict.

ST XI is supposedly set just before TOS, a time period we have a pretty good idea about, especially about the look of the technology, the uniforms, and where the characters were in their lives and careers. In this case, there is a massive incongruity that vaguely similar uniforms and earpieces doesn't even begin to make up for. The alternate timeline feldercarb only makes this thing moderately less offensive, but that still don't make it right.

 

[ST-One]

One more time.

TMP was set roughly three years after the end of Kirk's original five years mission, which means around seven years after TOS. A lot can change in that time. TMP looking different than TOS is not an incongruity. We can argue back and forth about the stylistic choices that were made, but within the context of the story being told, there's no real conflict.

Yes, there is. Epsilon IX for example, whenever it was built, it doesn't have any design element from TOS. Neither do the bits and pieces we see of San Francisco.
The Orbital Office, while new, doesn't reflect anything from TOS.
The Workbee, Airtram, Shuttlepod, Warp-Sled-Shuttle... well they must all have been developed in those seven years unseen (and still no resemblence to anything seen in TOS).

TMP was a visual reboot.

ST XI is supposedly set just before TOS, a time period we have a pretty good idea about, especially about the look of the technology, the uniforms, and where the characters were in their lives and careers. In this case, there is a massive incongruity that vaguely similar uniforms and earpieces doesn't even begin to make up for. The alternate timeline feldercarb only makes this thing moderately less offensive, but that still don't make it right.

Star Trek is also just another visual (and perhaps even continuity) reboot. That the writers use that 'alternate timeline felgercarb' to pander to the fanbois like you, should make you feel... important? pandered to?

 

[Captain X]

TMP doesn't fit either with TOS. There is next to no design element that looks even remotely like one from TOS in TMP (well... there is the earpiece, okay)
The whole look, the whole design aesthetic of Trek changed with TMP.
And the only 'explanation' we got was the refit of the ship being a 'almost completely new Enterprise'.

Which, I hate to break it to you, still fits in the storyline. It doesn't matter if Q snapped his fingers to pimp out the ship, the point is that it took place after the series and they didn't try to pretend that was the way everything looked all along.

 

[ST-One]

TMP doesn't fit either with TOS. There is next to no design element that looks even remotely like one from TOS in TMP (well... there is the earpiece, okay)
The whole look, the whole design aesthetic of Trek changed with TMP.
And the only 'explanation' we got was the refit of the ship being a 'almost completely new Enterprise'.

Which, I hate to break it to you, still fits in the storyline. It doesn't matter if Q snapped his fingers to pimp out the ship, the point is that it took place after the series and they didn't try to pretend that was the way everything looked all along.

And who is trying to do this with Star Trek? (alternate timeline = pandering to the fanbois)
Its a reboot.
Get used to it.

 

[ST-One]

TMP doesn't fit either with TOS. There is next to no design element that looks even remotely like one from TOS in TMP (well... there is the earpiece, okay)
The whole look, the whole design aesthetic of Trek changed with TMP.
And the only 'explanation' we got was the refit of the ship being a 'almost completely new Enterprise'.

Which, I hate to break it to you, still fits in the storyline. It doesn't matter if Q snapped his fingers to pimp out the ship, the point is that it took place after the series and they didn't try to pretend that was the way everything looked all along.

Oh, and aesthetically TMP doesn't fit at all.

 

[Captain X]

And who is trying to do this with Star Trek? (alternate timeline = pandering to the fanbois)

JJ abrams, his production team, and his writers.

Its a reboot.

That's what I was getting at.

Get used to it.

No.

Oh, and aesthetically TMP doesn't fit at all.

Do tell.

 

[number6]

Nobody has confirmed that the new movie is a reboot.

Regardless, the design ethic created for TMP has no real connection to the series. They redesigned everything to look cool on the big screen, and justified it with the flimsy argument that they "spent the last 18 months" redesgining the entire Star Trek universe. That's a lot of change from the last TOS episode, but we as fans have accepted that as reasoning for why everything looks so completely different.

I am sure the design ethic for Star Trek (09) will also be similarly explained.

That said, I don't have a problem with this new team taking artistic liberties with the look of the Trek universe. Each film and series has done that. I don't think this film will succeed or fail based on what McCoy's medical scanner looks like.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Regardless, the design ethic created for TMP has no real connection to the series. They redesigned everything to look cool on the big screen, and justified it with the flimsy argument that they "spent the last 18 months" redesgining the entire Star Trek universe. That's a lot of change from the last TOS episode, but we as fans have accepted that as reasoning for why everything looks so completely different.

Aside from the TOS credit narration, Kirk's log entry in Shore Leave suggests that the NCC-1701 had by that point been away from Earth for an extended period of time, so it is perfectly natural to expect technologies and fashions to continue evolving on the homeworld (along with the rest of the UFP) while remaining comparatively static aboard a starship engaged in an exploration mission beyond the outer periphery.

TGT

 

[number6]

Regardless, the design ethic created for TMP has no real connection to the series. They redesigned everything to look cool on the big screen, and justified it with the flimsy argument that they "spent the last 18 months" redesgining the entire Star Trek universe. That's a lot of change from the last TOS episode, but we as fans have accepted that as reasoning for why everything looks so completely different.

Aside from the TOS credit narration, Kirk's log entry in Shore Leave suggests that the NCC-1701 had by that point been away from Earth for an extended period of time, so it is perfectly natural to expect technologies and fashions to continue evolving on the homeworld (along with the rest of the UFP) while remaining comparatively static aboard a starship engaged in an exploration mission beyond the outer periphery.

TGT

We can certainly make that "in Canon" speculation, but that has very little to do with why the producers of TMP redesigned everything.

 

[trevanian]

Fans accepted the changes made in TMP with open arms...

Not quite true.

For instance, upon seeing publicity images of the refit Enterprise before the film was released, some fans were screaming bloody murder that their beloved starship was now sporting rectangular "Klingon" nacelles rather than the "proper" cylindrical nacelles.

Sound familiar?

Very true, and the interiors looked incredibly wrong to me (still do.) Basically I loved the way the miniature was photographed, and the way some other visual effects were handled, but took exception to pretty much everything done in the live-action as looking wrong (and not just wrong, but not good.)

 

[GodThingFormerly]

We can certainly make that "in Canon" speculation, but that has very little to do with why the producers of TMP redesigned everything.

Which simply means that the visual requirements for a major 1979 sci-fi film elegantly coincided with Trek's internal "reality" to generally positive effect. On the other hand, J.J. Abrams' decision to lens a TOS prequel has taken any such consideration off the table.

TGT

 

[trevanian]

Regardless, the design ethic created for TMP has no real connection to the series. They redesigned everything to look cool on the big screen, and justified it with the flimsy argument that they "spent the last 18 months" redesgining the entire Star Trek universe. That's a lot of change from the last TOS episode, but we as fans have accepted that as reasoning for why everything looks so completely different.

Aside from the TOS credit narration, Kirk's log entry in Shore Leave suggests that the NCC-1701 had by that point been away from Earth for an extended period of time, so it is perfectly natural to expect technologies and fashions to continue evolving on the homeworld (along with the rest of the UFP) while remaining comparatively static aboard a starship engaged in an exploration mission beyond the outer periphery.

TGT

We can certainly make that "in Canon" speculation, but that has very little to do with why the producers of TMP redesigned everything.

Well, you've got an army countering each other on the changes. Probert has mentioned GR wanted the vulcan shuttle to have round warp engines like TOS ENT, but somebody obviously overrode that early on. The ENT was built very smooth by Magicam, but lots of stuff was added to it (which the magicam guys were disappointed about in STARLOG 27) so there were aesthetics that got overridden during production as well. You get hodge-podge as a result.

 

[Captain X]

And as to the other things from TMP like the spacedock and the relay station, we really have no way of knowing how old either is compared to the big E herself. Enterprise had already been through two captains by the time Kirk got to her, amking her a fairly old ship by the time we even saw her in TOS. And since the orbital office complex was under construction at the beginning of the movie, the dry dock, and the pods could have all been new, though to be honest the travel pod wouldn't look all that out of place in TOS.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

And as to the other things from TMP like the spacedock and the relay station, we really have no way of knowing how old either is compared to the big E herself.

The dry dock could have been over a century old by the time of ST:TMP according to Andrew Probert, as interviewed in Fantastic Films Magazine (March, 1980):

The "Richard" he mentions is the film's original visual effects art director, Richard Taylor. Presumably the darkish brown color was intended to depict corrosion effects caused by the structure's multi-decade exposure to atomic oxygen along with solar flares and galactic cosmic rays.

And since the orbital office complex was under construction at the beginning of the movie, the dry dock, and the pods could have all been new, though to be honest the travel pod wouldn't look all that out of place in TOS.

Probert describes the Space Office Complex as an "an older facility that's continuing to evolve" on his website. My own interpretation of the construction work we saw in ST:TMP was the (long overdue) replacement of SOC's centrifugal habitat modules with the synthetic gravity variety, so at one point it may have looked remarkably like an L5-era Construction Shack:

TGT

 

[Captain Robert April]

Gotta love it when a straw man argument can't even maintain a humanoid shape long enough to withstand the first swipe.