haha! I am pretty optimistic, but a lot of things are getting worse.
I'm trying to reconcile the "I'm optimistic, but the world is a rapidly deteriorating writhing cesspool of depravity" opinion (my interpretation of some of the comments, not your words).
My main issue with it, apart from thinking the assessment is inaccurate, is that when you start thinking that no one is good, and the world is going to crap, you start placing less value in human life and society. If no one is a good person, is killing them that big a deal? If the rule of law is the product of a depraved populace, why should you be subject to it?
Conversely, if your society is passing laws you consider to be immoral or not beneficial, what incentive do you have to try and fix it? If people are in need of help, why should you care? They're not good people anyway.
That's the kind of belief that often leads to people who claim to value life yet support and even enjoy the death penalty, who seem to get almost a sense of glee at the prospect of being able to shoot someone who is committing a crime, who think nothing of supporting preemptive or unjust wars that kill numerous people on both sides, who endorse or participate directly in bigotry and the denial of rights to others simply for being different, and who are vehemently opposed to government programs designed to help those in need.
I see examples of these behaviors on a daily basis on this board and in public, generally from those people who are the most overt (and often the most "pushy") in declaring how religious they are. They embody the "talk the talk, but don't walk the walk" philosophy to me, as if simply being louder in your proclamation of righteousness makes up for not actually living a righteous life or caring for your fellow man.
Such a bleak outlook on life can also in extreme cases give rise to suicidal thoughts, and possibly with the combination of wanting to take other "bad" people with you as punishment or even to bring others with you to a "better place." The belief that no one is good and the world is a terrible place gives rise to suicide bombers / terrorists, people who go on mass shooting sprees, people who bomb abortion clinics, and people who murder homosexuals or other minorities. Religion is not the only source for people of this type of course, but this kind of depressing end-times-focused, humanity is inherently bad, looking forward to the next plane of existence rather than trying to live life to the fullest in this one type of thinking sure seems to spawn a lot of them.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that you, the other two that I quoted, or Christians / religious people in general fall into the categories I listed over the previous several paragraphs, it's just a trend that tends to bother me and seems more of a product of an extremist end times / afterlife focused bit of cultism within Christianity and some other religions like Islam.
There are other Christians here and in public whose beliefs I understand and even admire (while not sharing the same beliefs myself). They use their faith as a source of strength and happiness, to help or support helping others, and they have a profound respect for life and their fellow human beings in the here and now. Some good examples of this on the board would be
Jonathan Wally,
Cultcross,
Hoser,
Captain Intrepid and
J. Allen to name a few off the top of my head. That's the kind of religious belief I can get behind and think we need more of.
Pornography used to be a back alley kind of thing. Now I can find it at the click of the mouse. But then again, I bet some of you don't see the problem with that either.
That has nothing to do with declining morals, but rather greater access to and easier production of multimedia and changing attitudes towards the moral implications of fantasizing about sex. The interest in sex was always there and never went away regardless of era. If you consider pornography a sign of a declining society, who's the more desperate for porn, the guy who clicks a button and gets instant access to it, or the guy who has to go through all the trouble of acquiring and setting up an 8mm film reel to jerk off yet still does it? Lack of easy options either just made people give up on trying to get it or be more creative in how they acquired their porn, it didn't make them stop constantly thinking about sex though.
And you're right, I don't see the problem with pornography (so long as it's not something that involves exploting or harming others). What's wrong with not repressing your natural and allegedly God-given desires for personal enjoyment, so long as you're not harming anyone? If God didn't want you to be interested in sex, he sure had a funny way of showing it.
The reason I assume bad experience with religion, is because most of the atheists I meet outside of this forum do cite horrible experiences with religion or a priest, etc as why they no longer believe.
Speaking for myself, there was no "bad experience" per se, just a general distaste for some of the practicises of and dawning disbelief in some of the tenets of religion, about the time I started really thinking for myself instead of just parroting the beliefs of my parents (my dad mostly, my mom was never all that religious).
Originally Posted by
Captain X
Originally Posted by
Locutus of Bored 
Reading your posts, I'm reminded that my one regret about turning away from religion as a teen was the boundless optimism, love of life and humanity, and pure happiness that my faith used to fill me with. I'm glad to see you guys still have that though.
Heh, and just think, you're probably more optimistic about humanity in general that I am.
I was actually being sarcastic about that part to try and contrast the more positive Christianity experienced during my youth where faith was considered a source of strength and happiness versus the negative doom and gloom fixated version that unfortunately seems to be practiced by many on this board and elsewhere. I wasn't trying to express any actual loss of optimism, happiness, and love of life on my part since losing my faith. I have become more of a smartass though, apparently.
Yay! Do I get cookie?
