Ron Jones' "Assassination"...

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by swaaye, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    Not taking direction well can mean many things. I work in the music/audio field. I have for my entire adult life. There are a lot of inflexible, temperamental people in my field. I am sure if Jones and Berman didn't see eye to eye for whatever creative reason, and Jones wasn't flexible, Jones wouldn't be working there for long.

    I'm not a fan of his work, but then I found most 80's-90's musical scores for TV terribly bland. That trend was not unique to Berman or Star Trek.

    You can blame Berman for rain being wet, but I don't believe Jones' work (or attitude, as I've seen in interviews) made him indispensible.
     
  2. QuasarVM

    QuasarVM Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually, I do recall being impressed with Dr. Who's scores lately...

    LoDuca did some great work on Xena and Herc...it seemed almost 60's-ish in style. Very thematic in a TOS kind of way.

    Aw, man...you and me both are waiting for that Elaan and Incident score! But there's been so much TOS music that hasn't been released on a CD...

    1. The music from Who Mourns for Adonais?
    2. Spock's Brain (A great score even if the episode left much to be desired. ST: Phase II got it's hands on the music and they tracked some of it into the latest episode).
    3. Elaan
    4. Enterprise Incident
     
  3. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I only watched the first season of nuWho and the music always bothered me for some reason. I decided to listen to those four tracks and I finally figured out what it is; all the non-synthesised instruments have an echo on them like they were recorded in a theatre, and it sounds slightly amateurish. If they were recorded normally then I would definitely consider them to be epic, but the way they are now doesn't seem to gel correctly with what is happening on-screen.
     
  4. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
     
  5. swaaye

    swaaye Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Just a little heads up for those who aren't aware of this little fact: Jones was a major part of the composition of the soundtrack for the PC game StarFleet Academy. It is heavily inspired by his TNG work. May be the best aspect of the game. ;)

    I believe he also worked on StarFleet Command. I didn't play that one though so can't comment on it.
     
  6. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    He did compose the score for Starfleet Command as well (part one). It's a decent score, that was made available (in MP3 form) on a bonus disc that was released with the second game, I believe. I have that lying around somewhere....
     
  7. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Can't imagine how that's a bad thing.
     
  9. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Like I said, it sounds like it is coming from another plane of existence. If the scene is in an theatre then the music would work, but if the scene is taking place in a normal room or in corridors or while they are outside then the music doesn't fit what is happening on-screen.

    "The Shape of Things to Come" on the BSG soundtrack has a slight reverb to it like as if it is being recorded live in an opera house, and that works because during that scene Baltar and Six were walking through an opera house.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    :confused: I guarantee you, the acoustics of a modern recording studio sound nothing like the acoustics of a normal room, corridor, or outdoors location, so by that standard, background music never "fits." Besides, it's not like the music is actually supposed to exist as part of the ambient sound of the environment, with the characters hearing it (unless it's actually diegetic, like dance music or a song on the radio -- and even diegetic music or "live" singing in a show or movie is always a dubbed track recorded in a studio, so it wouldn't match the real acoustics of the environment anyway). So what difference does it make whether it "fits" the environment?
     
  11. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It matters to me, it just doesn't sound right to my ear. Like I said, the music itself is very good I just always had trouble accepting it as part of the show. I had the same problem with the final season of Enterprise, the music just never seemed to fit in there either.

    The best way I can think to describe it is this; my father feels uneasy when he sees blue and yellow together. He is fine looking at the colour blue, and he is fine looking at the colour yellow, but put them side by side and it doesn't feel right to him.

    The Doctor Who music sounds good, the show looks good visually, but when put together I get an uneasy feeling that they don't work. I'm not saying that they don't work for everybody, just that they don't work for me.
     
  12. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    There are many acoustic choices in a recording environment. Some people prefer a dry neutral recording environment, while others prefer to capture the space they are recording in. There is more or less a "standard" in studio acoustics in Hollywood, but then there are others who prefer recording in concert halls and cathedrals. With more tools available then ever, the choice of environments is only limited by the mind of the engineer and the needs of the project. There is also the phenomenon of listening to a mix intended for surround on television speakers, or something recorded in 2-channel stereo reprocessed for 5.1. There is no real global standard for this as not all productions are set up to do surround mixes even now. What you are discussing musically could easily fall into that conundrum.

    The fact that some people are mixing for mp3 player earbuds instead of huge speaker systems muddies that stream even further.
     
  13. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I have mixed feelings about Murray Gold's work. It's gorgeous, but sometimes a little too gorgeous, too over-the-top and melodramatic. And although I'm fond of melodic music and leitmotifs, and his are excellent, he overuses them in a way that gets a bit predictable -- every time there's a major Doctor moment you hear the Doctor theme, every time Martha shows up you hear Martha's theme, every time Donna does something you hear Donna's theme, every time there's something Time Lordy you hear "Flavia's Theme" or whatever, etc. He gives us too much of a good thing.
     
  15. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not once did I criticise his work, I said that I liked it. All I'm saying is that when I hear it while watching the show it doesn't quite gel for me. You enjoy it? Good for you. Me? There's a slight reverberation that I find irritating when watching the show. As an individual track I like it quite a lot. :)
     
  16. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Can't imagine how that's a bad thing. ;)
     
  17. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Rick Berman talking about music always reminds me of the guy from Amadeus who tells Mozart he's playing too many notes.

    My favorite composer from the 90s has to be David Kurtz, who did most of the Alien Nation series and movie series. Polar opposite to Berman's sonic droning. He'd do weird percussion things, low-key atmospheric things, unrestrained bombastic epic things, even used vocals. I always thought he would have done a great job on Trek.
     
  18. QuasarVM

    QuasarVM Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One of my favorite composers for TV was the late Barry Gray who did the music for Space:1999 (Season 1 only) and the other Gerry Anderson shows...

    That guy was brilliant! :bolian:
     
  19. Doik

    Doik Ensign Newbie

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    It may have been a slow death, but when Rick Berman fired Ron Jones, it underlined that he was a anything but a creative producer. Gene Rodenberry would never have fired someone for being creative and temperamental.

    Just watch and listen to the Enterprise flying into the spacedock in the episode "11001001." That was the majesty of Star Trek, underlined by Ron Jones.

    Just listen to the melody of the Traveller in "Where No One has Gone Before". That was the stylistic magic of Star Trek underlined by Ron Jones.

    Just listen to the closing of "Q Who?" That was the dramatic power of Star Trek underlined by Ron Jones.

    He did Klingon themes, Romulan themes, Borg themes. It was everything that made Star Trek magical.

    When Berman sacked Jones, he condemned Trek to a slow stylistic death. In my mind, Jay Chattaway's "noise" scores ruined episodes like "Chain of Command" which could have won an Emmy were it not for that horrendous screeching "sonic wallpaper" of his. How does a composer go to work everyday and do the same thing?
     
  20. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm ambivalent on Gold. My problem is not his creativity with is, as you say, "amazing." However, Gold is, in some ways, worse than James Horner. Horner recycles his motifs, so his music all sounds alike. Gold, however, recycles his cues, and covers that with brutal edits. I don't know Gold's working practice, but it sounds like he has a single recording session, so rather than write music for everything, he just writes a bunch of music to be used and reused.