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The Final "City"

^^^Ellison's dialogs are not clunky. In fact, they're far more naturalistic sounding than Star trek usually got. There are some lines that aren't in the character's voices per se, but that's not uncommon for a first draft.

And let's remember, the script we get to read is a first draft...and for a first draft, it's brilliant.
(Shrug) Different strokes for different folks. Terms like "Jewels of Sound" just sounded overwrought -- real drugs are called names like Crack and Ecstasy, no prepositions necessary -- and a ship full of pirates (Arggghh, matey!) called the Condor seemed too much like Lost in Space, though "Mirror, Mirror" would essentially co-opt the idea. I wish I could remember actual lines; I just recall thinking some were too wordy or didactic. I think I might have that book he put out a few years ago somewhere, so I'll see if I can find it.

I wasn't too troubled by the drug-dealing guy, who was in some ways cut out of the same cloth as the bigoted Stiles, loony Dr. Adams, and the Exeter's egomaniacle Captain Tracy, but I wondered what his motivation was if money had no real value. Trooper as a concept could have wandered into homespun hokiness, especially with that name, but with the right director and actor could have been quite sympathetic. Still, I was left thinking that what we got was better than what Ellison had conceived. In particular, having the hero of the show standing around while the action sorts itself out would have been like watching young Skywalker watch Wedge shoot the torpedo into the Death Star, poignant or not.
 
^^^The Condor wasn't anything Ellison wanted. Roddenberry apparently insisted he put the ship in danger, so Ellision tried to come up with something cheap. He threw it out as fast as he could.

Frankly, read the conversations between Kirk and Keeler...its naturalistic in a way that TOS rarely was.

Jewels of Sound is no more or less ridiculous than Psycho Tricorder or Venus Drug. If you're going to tar the script for not sounding real world, you have to tar the entire show.

And again, we're reading a first draft. A first draft that many feel is better than the aired show, this in a world where most first drafts stink. That's saying a lot right there.
 
^^^The Condor wasn't anything Ellison wanted. Roddenberry apparently insisted he put the ship in danger, so Ellision tried to come up with something cheap. He threw it out as fast as he could.

Frankly, read the conversations between Kirk and Keeler...its naturalistic in a way that TOS rarely was.

Jewels of Sound is no more or less ridiculous than Psycho Tricorder or Venus Drug. If you're going to tar the script for not sounding real world, you have to tar the entire show.

And again, we're reading a first draft. A first draft that many feel is better than the aired show, this in a world where most first drafts stink. That's saying a lot right there.
The preposition makes it clumsy -- regular folk give nicknames to drugs to make them both catchy and immediate; nerds and science types often make terms clumsier than necessary.

I don't think psycho tricorder is as clumsy, but Star Trek and sci-fi in general have a dorky history of overusing prefixes: adding "space" to the titles of otherwise ordinary objects like "doors" and "dock," for instance. I recognize the conceit that the audience might be confused, but when it's all said and done, isn't it still a tricorder? If not, give it another name, like "psychometer" or something. Otherwise, references can approach the silliness that the TV show Batman took to camp levels, adding "bat" to self-explanatory objects.

I'd let Venus Drug pass because it's a placebo that Harry Mudd conjured up, and the title sounds as two-bit as he was.

I will try to find that book. As I said, I like more dialogue than less, but while some of what Ellison wrote sounded fine, other parts didn't. I recognize that first drafts are rough, but this is the one that he's always harping about and won him the awards, right? If so, then the flaws are understandable but still pertinent if someone is less impressed than others.
 
^^^The Condor wasn't anything Ellison wanted. Roddenberry apparently insisted he put the ship in danger, so Ellision tried to come up with something cheap. He threw it out as fast as he could.

Frankly, read the conversations between Kirk and Keeler...its naturalistic in a way that TOS rarely was.

Jewels of Sound is no more or less ridiculous than Psycho Tricorder or Venus Drug. If you're going to tar the script for not sounding real world, you have to tar the entire show.

And again, we're reading a first draft. A first draft that many feel is better than the aired show, this in a world where most first drafts stink. That's saying a lot right there.
The preposition makes it clumsy -- regular folk give nicknames to drugs to make them both catchy and immediate; nerds and science types often make terms clumsier than necessary.

I don't think psycho tricorder is as clumsy, but Star Trek and sci-fi in general have a dorky history of overusing prefixes: adding "space" to the titles of otherwise ordinary objects like "doors" and "dock," for instance. I recognize the conceit that the audience might be confused, but when it's all said and done, isn't it still a tricorder? If not, give it another name, like "psychometer" or something. Otherwise, references can approach the silliness that the TV show Batman took to camp levels, adding "bat" to self-explanatory objects.

I'd let Venus Drug pass because it's a placebo that Harry Mudd conjured up, and the title sounds as two-bit as he was.

I will try to find that book. As I said, I like more dialogue than less, but while some of what Ellison wrote sounded fine, other parts didn't. I recognize that first drafts are rough, but this is the one that he's always harping about and won him the awards, right? If so, then the flaws are understandable but still pertinent if someone is less impressed than others.

GR improved upon what ellison did and that is why this subject is still alive today. Ellison must of thought he was righting a movie sized script. Well, he wasn't. GR made it crisper, and far more dramatic, by shifting the focus on CAPTAIN KIRK. That all it is.

I found the dialog in Ellisoin's version stilted an totally off the mark. Thank God GR did change it or it might have been a turkey, based on what I read.

Rob
 
I say let him write his own show if he's such a good writer.

He did, and the production company fucked him over, so he walked out on his show, knowing he was losing nearly six figures but refusing to be a party to utter crap. And he put his registered penname CORDWAINER BIRD on the created by credit, letting everybody know he had been fucked with.
 
GR improved upon what ellison did and that is why this subject is still alive today.
On the contrary, the reason it's alive today is because many people think the Trek staff fucked it up. And the consensus is against Roddenberry being the rewriter. Fontana herself says she and Coon worked on it and Roddenberry only messed with it at the end (as is obvious by his leaden, on-those-nose Edith platitudes about star ships).
Ellison must of thought he was righting <sic> a movie sized script. Well, he wasn't.
"Writing". I proved the lie of that upthread when I did a script breakdown. It wasn't a movie sized script by any standards. Repeating that bald exaggeration doesn't make it true.
GR made it crisper, and far more dramatic, by shifting the focus on CAPTAIN KIRK. That all it is.
By adding all that dumb business about Spock fixing the tricorder that wasn't in the original? By adding the insulting mechanical rice picking machine crap? By adding a mention of Clark Gable in 1930, years before he was a known quantity? By making McCoy stupidly inject himself? By "Captain...I'm frightened"? Yeah, those are "improvements"... :rolleyes:
 
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I say let him write his own show if he's such a good writer.

He did, and the production company fucked him over, so he walked out on his show, knowing he was losing nearly six figures but refusing to be a party to utter crap. And he put his registered penname CORDWAINER BIRD on the created by credit, letting everybody know he had been fucked with.
What was the name of Ellison's show ? and I liked Spock fixing the tricorder with knives and bearskins. It should have been coward bird and the story for city seems to me to be very derivitive and he just added the impossible love twist even though it is the best Star Trek.
 
By adding the insulting mechanical rice picking machine crap?

Not to deflect the issue, but I'm pretty damn sure Gene Coon added the chinese/rice picker stuff. It really has his flavor, the back&forth between Kirk & Spock, whether you like it or not.
 
I say let him write his own show if he's such a good writer.
Yeah...if he's such a good writer, how come he's only won seven Hugos and three Nebulas for his printed work. Such a hack...to be the only writer to have won the Writer's Guild America (west) award FOUR times. :rolleyes:
Writers Guild of America Award:
1965 Demon with a Glass Hand -- Outer Limits
1967 The City on the Edge of Forever -- Star Trek
1973 Phoenix Without Ashes -- The Starlost (pilot episode)
1986 Paladin of the Lost Hour -- Twilight Zone
That and bunch of others...
It should have been coward bird and the story for city seems to me to be very derivitive and he just added the impossible love twist even though it is the best Star Trek.
Derivitive of what, precisely? Back that up, please.

By adding the insulting mechanical rice picking machine crap?
Not to deflect the issue, but I'm pretty damn sure Gene Coon added the chinese/rice picker stuff. It really has his flavor, the back&forth between Kirk & Spock, whether you like it or not.
I've previously said that I don't believe Roddenberry did most of the rewriting on this, as too much of it smacks of Fontana and Coon (as you rightly point out). I was simply listing some of the "improvements" that aren't improvements.
 
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Star Trek has been referred to as the McDonald's of science fiction. So, maybe it would be a good analogy to say that Harlan was trying to put together a four course gourmet meal, only to realize too late that he was putting all this effort into what was a better than average burger joint, and was rather incensed that others were trying to turn his culinary masterpiece into another of the twenty-eight other burgers they'd produced that year.

Nothing wrong with making a really good burger, if that's what you're after, but when you started off trying to cook up something more suited for a three or four start restaurant, it can be quite a blow to the ego.

And when all was said and done, what we got was one helluva good burger.
 
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